Recently I went to Italy and saw a museum of Saints who had been dead for many years some of them for a couple hundred years, yet their bodies haven't decayed yet. An example is Pio Padre. This only seems to be the case with Christian people of faith. Have you ever heard of this concept, and how can you explain it? Why does it only seem to happen to Christians and not others?
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Hello Pork222
Yes. I've heard of this. In fact I've seen a couple of examples in Japan, where it's called "sokushinbutsu". The Japanese are believed to have learned the technique from China. Buddhist monks go through a process of self-mummification by fasting for longer and longer periods until all fat has disappeared from their bodies. Then they reduce their liquid intake, until they become totally dehydrated and die. I guess there's nothing left in their bodies for decay organisms to feed on, so the corpses just dry out. It sounds like a horrible way to die, but it's no proof of divinity. It's just more proof of the stupidity of religions.
Stories about Christian saints are suspect at best. The bones, blood, or preserved bodies of saints are worth a fortune to churches. They're real sucker magnets. Since the MIddle Ages, people have visiting churches and paying to have these so-called saints cure their ailments. Who knows what tricks the priestly frauds get up to to create these so-called holy relics.
@ pork222
I see you're still bombarded with "evidence".
It's good to see that you're here asking about it, instead of just blindly accepting it.
- "Why does it only seem to happen to Christians and not others?"
Who told you this happens only to Christians?
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/mummified-monk-breathes-new-life-i...
Here's an "interesting" site that "proves" that Muslim preserved bodies are the only true ones:
http://www.rightfulreligion.com/en187_differences-in-the-dead-bodies-of-...
If you research it, you'll probably find other examples, connected to other beliefs.
- "...dead for many years some of them for a couple hundred years, yet their bodies haven't decayed yet."
This is a great article about it.
http://www.orderofthegooddeath.com/really-whats-incorrupt-corpses
One of the most significant parts of the article:
"She was very open about the history of the body so there wasn’t any denial about its current condition or past treatments. Yep, incorruptibles get treatments (like a corpse spa) and it’s no big secret."
@The Pragmatic, just out of curiosity, what do you think is the most likely explanation for the body of the Buddhist Monk?
I don't know really, I haven't found it interesting enough to do any research on that.
I read that they are buried in that position in a glass box, then exhumed about 3 years later and then put on display. There is probably a lot of rumours and exaggerated stories around things like this, so it's hard to know.
It could very well be that they swallow as much as they can of some embalming concoction just before they die, it could be that they keep the glass box air tight when they are buried for 3 years and that turns them in to beef jerky.
"http://www.rightfulreligion.com/en187_differences-in-the-dead-bodies-of-..." - I don't think this page has any actual facts that "prove" the "true" preservation of bodies. Plus, the idea of non-corruptible bodies in that page is being used as propaganda to manipulate people in Islam, and it's very non-neutral proof, quoting:
"So, if you are a non-Muslim then I sincerely request you to accept this neutral proof by nature and revert back to Islam because this is an irrefutable reality that none of any non-Muslim of the world can ever prove wrong."
But since you placed commas in the words interesting and proves, then I'd assume you already understood that.
Desiccation and turning to leather wrapped around dried bones is not exactly incorruptibility. Would you say the body of a cow is incorruptible when your wearing its leather on your feet?
Algebe you should probably do some real research. Bodies that are a product of sokushinbutsu have significant decay it is just a form of mummification. On the other hand the bodies of saints such as St. Bernadette, who died in 1879, or Saint Therese of Liseux, who died in 1897, do not have any decay on their bodies. You are willfully ignorant of the fact that this is not the same thing, which is pathetic.
Wow, Dergonstieff, to hear a deluded superstitious ignoramous tell someone else to "do some real research" is jarring. You believe that a mystical super-being is coddling and pampering the corpses of deceased primates. You hold up the disgusting bodies of late 19th century mystics and loudly accuse others of being "willfully ignorant". I'll agree with you on one thing, Dergonstieff. It's "pathetic".
Large portions of St. Bernadette skin rotted away, and her face and hands had to be replaced with wax.
All that is left of St. Therese of Lisieux is bones.
I would be careful about speaking of willful ignorance, considering the very incorrect information you posted.
@Dergonstiff: "it is just a form of mummification"
Of course it's mummification. I've seen a couple of them. I've also seen an unwrapped Egyptian mummy. They look like dried wood.
Your Christian obsession with bits of corpses and little vials of fake blood, etc., is just plain deluded, disgusting and primitive. Historically, it was a cynical way for money-grubbing priests and abbots to extract money from the poor and suffering, who would travel long distances in the hope of gaining a cure by touching a saint's bones.
Relics, weeping statues, and bits of the true cross are all as fake as your escapist religion. Wanna buy a Jesus fingerbone?
The reason the corpses look so good is because they are covered In wax. Some of them are also fake.
Simple internet search turned up this.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3146906/Haunting-images-beautifu...
http://www.orderofthegooddeath.com/really-whats-incorrupt-corpses
https://www.gotquestions.org/incorruptible-saints.html
That classifies as insanity.
Wax
I'm sorry Truett did you have any facts in that response or did you just attack me for believing in something?
You did call another user 'pathetic', after attacking what that user believed, having offered 'facts' that were then disproved later in the comments. Remember: belief does not beget truth.
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Dergonstieff, please read Nyarlathotep's post above. I did not conduct a thorough analysis of your claims, but I've paid attention to medical research and the sciences and know that the human body begins decomposing rather quickly. And it's universal. The only bodies that have not decayed are in cryogenic freezers. The mummification of bodies whether by intentional processes or their presence in oxygen free environments can preserve more of the outer integrity of the body, but there is still catastrophic degradation of the systems required to support life. You said people needed to do real research, and then went on to tell people commenting on the mummification process that they were pathetic. I stand by what I've said. I don't want to be unnecessarily aggressive, but you're talking about bodies from the late 1,800's that haven't decayed, and that is nonsense.
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If it's nonsense then look it up. Look up St. Bernadette incorruptible body and tell me the method on how they "faked" it.
When she becomes a zombie be sure to let us know.
This probably has its roots in the same mechanisms that led to soft tissues being preserved in Cretaceous fossils. The bodies in question simply had the good fortune to be present in the correct conditions. No magic needed, and no magic men either.
Though of course, it would be nice if we had scientific tests to establish that we're dealing with a suspension of the usual decay processes.
Re: "What is your explanation for incorruptible bodies?"
Here's a possibility to consider... *giggle*...
https://youtu.be/2Dzc4QATBxo
According to the Catholic faith, such incorruptibility is a miracle. A person who dies and proves incorruptible can thus qualify as a saint. St. Bernadette is the most often cited example of miraculous incorruptibility. The photos you see on the Internet of St. Bernadette's beautiful, incorrupt corpse are of a wax mask placed on an obviously mummified body. This corps has been exhumed 3 times and found to be rotting away.
"With regards to the one you mentioned, Pio Padre: " Some 15,000 worshipers gathered yesterday at the shrine of the Roman Catholic saint and mystic Padre Pio, as his exhumed body went on display for the first time since his death almost 40 years ago. A team of biochemists and other experts has worked since the exhumation to get the body into a fit state to be shown. Padre Pio's face was covered with a lifelike silicone mask of the type used in wax museums. "
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/apr/25/catholicism.italy
At best this is a well devised illusion perpetuated by the Church. It's BULLSHIT.
I need proof of just one incorrupt body. And this leads me to ask .... since there are many bodies of saints and such stored, and are very decomosed, why are they not incorrupt?
It is simply astonishing that nowadays people still fall for this tricks. @Dergonstieff, they have given you enough evidence to prove how it is possible to preserve a body (well, or rather to create the illusion of being preserved), no magical powers needed. What are your thoughts now?
@Tin-Man hahaha
Hey there, Flame. Great seeing you back out here on the boards. Tell Apost he needs to get his hairy ass back out here too. lol
Hey, Tin-Man!!! I even created a new thread this morning! His ass will come back, no worries. It's unfair that I keep his wonderful rational mind just for my own pleasure muahaha.
@ Flamenca
Welcome back my lovely!!! So good to see your mind back on the boards we have missed you.
Tin Man has been wandering since you guys left, wouldn't even come in for a wire brush or a bucket of oil. Just comes clanking in the morning, goes round the boards looking for you and Apost then makes some terrible jokes, farts and curls up in a corner.
Now one post from you and look at him, all frisky, wanting a pat and a wirebrush. I was going to have him dismantled but, if you two are coming back I guess I will have to keep him.
@Old Man Re: "I was going to have him dismantled but,..."
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@ TM
You just keep getting betterer and betterer....woke She Who Must Be Obeyed from her slumber I was laughing so much...so I had two disapproving faces at my door (SWMBO and Captain Cat) while I laughed at the screen. Penance: I had to cook breakfast for both of them, now I am forgiven ...sort of. But I am still laughing.
@Old man... Awww, we weren't aware of Tin-Man's having such a hard time. Please, don't dismantle him. We will try not to be apart that long. You know, life is life (nanananana).
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