Conversation I had yesterday

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Jared Alesi's picture
Conversation I had yesterday

So, remember the kerfuffle of stupid shite surrounding the Starbucks holiday cups? Well, I had a pretty... Different conversation concerning this yesterday, and I want to know what you guys think.

Friend: If the cups don't say Merry Christmas this year, I'm having a fit.
Me: Why?
F: Because it's Christmas! Only like the most important day of the year!
Me: Not if you don't celebrate it, like Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and even some Christian sects don't.
F: Doesn't matter, Christians are the majority. Most people celebrate Christmas.
Me: Well, what about the others that would feel left out or offended? If the country was mostly Jewish, would it be okay to only wish people a happy Hanukkah?
F: No. I'd demand there to be a Merry Christmas.
Me: Well, there are lots of holidays around now, and a lot of people all over the country celebrate them, so wouldn't it be easier to say Happy Holidays, or say nothing at all and just have festive colors?
F: Yeah, but I want to be wished a Merry Christmas.

So tell me. Is there any salvageable sense left in this one?

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LostLocke's picture
To me? Nope.

To me? Nope.
By the way he talked, I would intentionally be wishing him a Happy Saturnalia from then on just to get under his skin. A bit spiteful yes, but so much fun. ;)

David_Holloway's picture
Sounds like a lost cause. You

Sounds like a lost cause. You've said everything reasonable, and still they can't see sense. Tgat us called pigheadedness. No cure for that.

Nyarlathotep's picture
The Christians should thank

The Christians should thank Starbucks for helping them stoke their ludicrous persecution complex.

ZeffD's picture
And a happy season of good

And a happy season of good cheer to all! :-)

jonthecatholic's picture
I'm curious. I'm not so

I'm curious. I'm not so familiar with American culture so I really don't get this. If someone greets their guests with Merry Christmas, why is it considered inappropriate? I mean, I wouldn't mind if someone greeted me with Happy Hanukkah. I do agree though that no one should have the right to demand that a certain establishment greet their guests a certain way this Christmas.

David_Holloway's picture
The question isn't people

The question isn't people being offended by "Merry Christmas" the is people (Christians, white supremacist, etc) taking offence to beimg wished "happy holidays". They think it is an attack on Christmas, or politcal correctness i.e. incase it offends non-Christians. At leadt that is what I assume is tye issue in America, it certainly an issue here in Britain.

jonthecatholic's picture
Okay. Thanks

Okay. Thanks

mykcob4's picture
Starbucks is a private

Starbucks is a private enterprise. they can put "Fuck jesus" on their cups if they want to. Tell your friend that!

watchman's picture
@Jared ....

@Jared ....

This is a manifestation of the famed and non-existent "War on Christmas" .... supposedly waged against the poor ,beleaguered christians of America.

Oddly enough there are a very few occasions when Christmas has actually been banned .....
Various Muslim nations have banned the festivity of course ; Brunei , Tajikistan , Saudi Arabia , Somalia .
Then there is also North Korea , Albania & Cuba.

But next come two that are ,perhaps a little more "unexpected" .....

The U.S. States of Massachusetts and Connecticut ,banned Christmas back in 1659 this was due to the Puritans who in
England ,in 1647, had enacted a law banning the observance and celebration of Christmas.

Personally I would point out to your poor persecuted friend that his (& Xmas' ) real enemy is people like him.
Another case of the selective amnesia of the theist.

Tin-Man's picture
Amen, Myk! I get so sick and

Amen, Myk! I get so sick and tired of all these individuals and "special interest" groups trying to force their personal views and agendas on everybody else. It is nauseating, and seems to get worse with each passing day. Here's a little piece of advice for those who do not like the way a private business conducts itself.... DON'T USE THAT BUSINESS. Pretty dang simple concept, if you ask me. Hate to say it, Jared, but your friend sounds like on of those self-entitled "snowflakes" who never got told "No" as a kid and believes the world and everything in it revolves around them and their personal interests. Just an observation... And just for shits and giggles, I would probably greet him with, "Praise be to Thor," (or something similar) every time I saw him. Lostlocke, I like the way you think. lol

Tin-Man's picture
Hey, Jared. I just got

Hey, Jared. I just got enlightened to a neat little fact about the Starbucks logo you might want to pass on to your friend. That logo happens to be the European pagan river goddess Melusine (sometimes spelled Melusina, also). My wife is primarily pagan and knows an extensive amount about many of the pagan gods. Interesting story behind Melusine if anybody cares to look it up. Anyway, figured that would be a fun little bit of trivia to pass along to your friend.

Jared Alesi's picture
Cool. Also regarding

Cool. Also regarding Starbucks, isn't the owner Jewish? Why the fuck would Merry Christmas be in the cups anyway?

CyberLN's picture
You can check if he is on one

You can check if he is on one of my all-time favorite websites:

algebe's picture
WTF! He left William Shatner

WTF! He left William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy off the list of actors.

CyberLN's picture
Shatner is there if you

Shatner is there if you search by name, and I did fine Nimoy in the Actor category.

I frequently visit this site when I need a chuckle...or I watch Simon’s Cat vids on YouTube. Apparently, I’m easily amused.

algebe's picture
@CyberLN: "Apparently, I’m

@CyberLN: "Apparently, I’m easily amused."

I put on YouTube videos of dogs acting weird and then watch our dog's reaction.

CyberLN's picture
Now THAT’S amusing!

Now THAT’S amusing!

Pitar's picture
And this is the problem with

And this is the problem with the world of highly protected countries where survival isn't even in anyone's thoughts anymore. Instead, the protocols of pettiness, aka political correctness, have reformed the mindsets of entire nations and are calling upon everyone to get some.

2. Affirmative action
3. Cultural diversity
4. Sexual harassment
5. National budget
6. Defense
7. Economy
8. State of the union

The above 1-4 non-issues are taking precedence in politics and mainstream media over the real legitimate national issues in 5-8.

The cause is largely peacetime special interests taking the opportunity to scream loud, long and often about matters that don't matter at the national level. In the absence of a national threat, critical lowering of defensive posturing, economy on the skids and a state of the union requiring emergency cohesiveness, the politics change to hear and embrace the new threats from within - the voter.

The majority won't be making any noise if 5-8 are well in hand, nor will they be heard when 1-4 start gaining traction. It's only the lesser people, the minority, that moves a nation away from otherwise intelligent arguments to their woefully selfish causes in 1-4 and pushing them as national agenda items. They're not. They are very much issues but not at the national level.

The office of POTUS is not where sexual preference related matters, affirmative action, cultural diversity and sexual harassment issues are brought to bear. They belong elsewhere and most certainly need to be heard, sorted out and acted upon. If legislation is required to improve their status then that should be sought in the courts and jurisdictions of the various States no differently than the manner in which the marijuana usage laws have been remediated.

In this sense the national personas of western nations have suffered through the changing mindsets of people so sadly affected by petty things that the Grand Order of the Reclusively Empowered (GORE) recruited me long ago as a card carrying member. It's an order I created and staffed as its sole volunteer. Friday nights are beer nights so if you've a mind for it please don't drop by.

mykcob4's picture
I totally disagree with your

I totally disagree with your cynical bullshit Pitar.
Political correctness is just respect and nothing more.
Affirmative Action isn't political correctness anyway, it's equal opportunity.
Sexual harassment is a crime.
The LGBTQ community is just fighting for rights that you and I enjoy every day. They aren't asking for anything special.
Also, the POTUS needs to set an example of proper etiquette and conduct.

algebe's picture
@mykcob4 "Political

@mykcob4 "Political correctness is just respect and nothing more."

Political correctness might have started out as respect, but it's morphed into censorship and self-censorship.

I agree with the other things you said, but I'm cautious about affirmative action because of the unintended consequences it can bring. I hope we can get to a point at which every job is given to the best applicant, and the same work always gets the same pay.

CyberLN's picture
“Best applicant” is a pretty

“Best applicant” is a pretty squishy thing to try to define.

For instance, in a community that is, say, predominantly Hispanic, do you hire the white guy as a deputy sheriff who scored 87% on the written exam, or the Hispanic woman who scored 85%?

algebe's picture
Or do you add "cultural

Or do you add "cultural affinity/ability to communicate with the local community" to your list of criteria?

CyberLN's picture
That’s certainly what I would

That’s certainly what I would do. This actually happened. The Hispanic woman was hired and the white guy was incredibly angry about how unfair he perceived it to be, since, after all, he scored higher on the test.

I’ve always held that the demographics of a community should be reflected equally in its civil servants. Can’t even begin to describe the amount of shit I’ve gotten for that from so many people.

algebe's picture
Was he angry because she was

Was he angry because she was Hispanic or because she was a woman? His sense of entitlement seems enough to disqualify him from a job in law enforcement.

But I can understand the white guy's anger if it wasn't specified in the job description. There should have at least been a disclaimer like "Highest scoring applicant not necessarily accepted."

CyberLN's picture
As I recall, there was zero

As I recall, there was zero description in the job req that defined the criteria being used for the hiring decision. There sure wasn’t any in the req for the department into which I was hired. I think he assumed that because there was a scored test, it would determine who was the front runner. Come to think of it, it would not surprise me that he would have thought that would be the only consideration.

To answer your other question...he was angry because she was both Hispanic and female...saying it was preferential. I think it was preferential but, unlike him, I don’t think that preference was wrong.

Randomhero1982's picture
I usually don't disagree with

I usually don't disagree with many atheists on here but this I do, being correct, right etc.. Doesn't require a qualifier.

Affirmative action in itself is racist, you are favouring one group over another because they are disadvantaged... by all means allow them better access to education and so on but hire the best qualified who has earnt it and not someone based on a law such as this.

Agree sexual harassment is a crime however, but you have to be very careful.. I've read stories and seen youtube video's from 3rd wave feminists where in America they considered it harrasment or micro aggressing to open a door for a lady or tell them politely that they are beautiful.

That's wrong...

LGBTQ aren't asking for much? Except for making us ignorant of basic biology and to enforce stupid pronouns to conform with their delusions...
I have no problem with them, and all power to them, in that live and let live. I always say just tell me your name an I'll call you that, it's simple.

Gender identity is the worst though, where do you draw the line? Could I identify as black and gain working perks through affirmative action? Could I identify as a pensioner and finish my working life now?

The world just needs some common sense and to calm down a bit.

mykcob4's picture
Well Random, I think that you

Well Random, I think that you are wrong. The women that object to having doors opened for them are sensitive to a cultural bias. They don't consider it sexual harassment, they consider it social condescention.
As for affirmative action, if the world were fair and competition for a job was fair there would be no need for it. As it is, racism is alive and well. Since slavery was abolished new forms of discrimination have taken its place. Affirmative Action is the only tool to address this crime.
As far as gender identity goes, who cares what an individual identifies themselves as? They can't help who they really are. Look at this way. If you as a white man were denied to be recognized as a white man you would feel and truly be oppressed by a society that just doesn't afford you the same rights as everyone else.
Take a public restroom. We accommodate people that are heterosexual men and heterosexual women, but we do not accommodate anyone else. What are all public restrooms only accommodated gay men and gay women? You would be in an uproar.

Tin-Man's picture
So true, Algebe. Very well

So true, Algebe. Very well said. Personally, I despise political correctness. My opinion is that it is a disease that has infected our culture and society to the point that it is almost near-impossible to openly state ANY opinion(s) without drawing the ire of some group or individual who got their touchy wittle feewings hurt. It perplexes me to no end why people nowadays make such a big deal about getting their feelings hurt. SO WHAT IF THEY DO? Waaaaaaah... Boo-hoo. Get over it already.
That being said, I am a fan of being polite and practicing good manners when able. Makes no sense to me why anybody would go out of their way to intentionally and maliciously insult, belittle, or offend another person. That's just plain rude. However, just because my personal opinions or views may somehow "offend" another person, well.... tough cookies. Suck it up, buttercup. Because I am certainly not going to change them simply to save that person's precious little sense of self-entitlement. And, quite frankly, I am allowed to voice my opinions just as loud as anybody else should I choose to do so. Pitar made some outstanding points, and he was in no way being cynical. He was simply being real. (Again, personal opinion.)

Tin-Man's picture
Oh, and just so you know, if

Oh, and just so you know, if anybody disagrees with me and expresses their own opinions counter to my own, rest assured I fully plan to throw an epic temper-tantrum, whine and cry about my hurt feelings, write a letter to my congressman, and then storm off to my room and pull the covers over my head so that I can sob quietly while wishing the world wasn't so unfair to ME.

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
Don't care what Starbucks

Don't care what Starbucks does, but I do think people that get offended by merry christmas (if they really exist) are a bit childish.


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