Critique of the book "Why there is no God" by Armin Navabi
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Chapter 8 “It’s safer to believe in God than be wrong and go to Hell”
Really, I am cooking pizza, which is much more satisfactory than reading the laughable idiocities that Armin writes.
But I have embarked in this task and I must bring it to the end.
In the past I have quoted Pascal’s wager a couple of times, but only for the sake of conversation with people because when I talk about religion I delve into its richness, and the wager really is nothing.
It is still better than all Armin’s stupidities.
Armin knows nothing about religion. He quotes only what is useful for his purposes.
He says: “It is clear that worshipping the right deity in the appropriate way is crucial to finding salvation. To enter Heaven as a Christian, you must be “saved” by believing in Jesus as your saviour.”
Luke 12: “10 And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.”
Matthew 25: “31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the RIGHTEOUS into life eternal.”
So anyone with a bit of healthy brain in his head understands that the way to salvation is being righteous, practicing fraternal charity.
Matthew 9: “12 On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”
In fact, Popes recently have often prayed with leaders of all religions together. Among the many things Armin knows nothing about there is ECUMENISM, at least in the Catholic Church.
So more excrement comes from Armin’s pen when he writes: “If the Judeo-Christian God was real and the Bible accurate, every Buddhist, Muslim and Hindu would go to Hell, regardless of how devoutly they believe their own religion.”
Muslims do not place belief in God as paramount for salvation. They have the 5 Pillars of Islam:
Shahadah: sincerely reciting the Muslim profession of faith
Salat: performing ritual prayers in the proper way five times each day
Zakat: paying an alms (or charity) tax to benefit the poor and the needy
Sawm: fasting during the month of Ramadan
Hajj: pilgrimage to Mecca
Armin, going on with his show of brain-emptiness, continues like this:
“Moreover, believing in God simply to avoid the punishmentof Hell is an empty type of belief”.
Our Catholic relkigion says that of course one must do what is right in order to please God, but also doing what is right for ”selfish” interest of reaching salvation is also acceptable.
Moreover, the only sins which God surely will not forgive are the 6 sins against the Holy Spirit:
1. Despairing of salvation.
2. Presumption of salvation without merit.
3. Denying a truth recognized as such by the Magisterium of the Church
4. Envying the grace that God gives to other people.
5. Obstinacy in sin is the firm will to continue in error even after receiving the light and help of the Holy Spirit
6. Final impenitence.
Armin! Get lost!! You are just one more of the biggest shames of the rationalist community.
You are a very odd sort of catholic...I quote from www.catholic.com: To come to God and be saved, you need to repent, have faith, and be baptized. If you commit mortal sin, you need to repent, have faith, and go to confession.
So it seems, once again you are full of what the brits would call pure bollocks.
Your colon must be the size of a small sewer pipe the amount of revolving your head does up there.
@Old Man Re: To Fergie - "So it seems, once again you are full of what the brits would call pure bollocks."
Once again, I have to voice my concern here. Since it is apparent our dear Fergie has punched his ticket for the express lane service to Satan's Fiery Fun Furnace, I'm really worried about what will become of the rest of us. The fate of our immortal souls now hangs in the balance. Fergie was suppose to lead us godless dregs of humanity toward the path of enlightenment. We were counting on him to open our science-blinded eyes and steer us away from the heathen practices of logical and rational thinking. But then he had to go fuck that up by consorting with the evil fortune teller witch-bitch.... *spitting on the ground in disgust*... WHY, FERGIE?!? WHYYYYYYY??? Now who will we find to be our Savior?!?
Hey, crisis averted, folks! My wife just gave me this. I'm good!... Phew!... *wiping sweat from brow*... Oh, if anybody is interested, I'll see if she can scrounge up a few more of these gems.
Why does this book make you so angry? Everyone has pointed out from the start that you lack the ability to think cogently or rationally, is that the reason you feel so threatened by those that do? I am going post on chapter today, and I will be linking the asinine drivel from your unrelated angry and stupid rant, masquerading as a critique. Knowing most of the other posters on here, it is clear they'll find this series of angry rants as amusing as I do.
What objective evidence can you demonstrate for any deity, you seem to be avoiding this question?
Hell is the metaphorical burning torment of the soul separated from the eternal bliss of God or something like that I think. So we don't have to wait until you die we're hell right now until we repent and find salvation in the Lord. If you die before repentance you just continue on but as shadowy spirit separated from the warmth of the flesh. Denied the resurrection you linger on as a kind of Ring Wraith from the Lord of the Rings kind of thing full of bitterness and hatred and what have you. So that's the kind of thing modern Christianity has in mind for hell. Islam is more straightforward it's just literal fire that burns away your flesh which constantly regenerates itself. Non-Muslims can get into Islamic heaven reasonably easily though they have to serve the Muslims drinks.
Awesome. Where do I sign up?
Everyone is signed up from birth due to original/ancestral sin.
@Dark One Re: "Everyone is signed up from birth due to original/ancestral sin."
So, what you're saying is it's a FREE membership?.... *big smile slowly spreading across face*.... Ssssss-weeeet!... *clapping excitedly*...
"The one who has an ear, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death* (Revelation 2:11).
'Unless spiritual death is reversed in this life, the result will be eternal death. This is unending separation between God and all who reject Him.' Don Stewart
So like a Ring Wraith king of thing so my interpretation of it. I suppose minus one of nine rings of power given to mortal men, unless Satan gives you one I dunno.
"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars - their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death (Revelation 21:8)."
Eternal death, or the second death, is the ultimate form of separation. If a person dies in a state of spiritual death, they enter eternity separated from God. This is the second death. Once a person has experienced the "second death" there is no hope for them, it is irreversible.
Physical death is the separation of the body from the spirit. Spiritual death, the way all of us are born, is the spiritual separation of each of us from God. Eternal death, or the second death, is the eternal separation of a person from God. There is no escape from the second death." Don Stewart
Some good teachin here. Don Stewart here look, knows his stuff.
At some point he should have said "Like a Ring Wraith from Lord of the Rings" I think that really gives you a nice gist for whats going on there. Yes it's quite cool.
I need a new card, my wallet has this blank slot ever since Blockbuster shut down.
Chapter 9: “God isn’t defined. God cannot be comprehended or described. One must simply have faith.”
Boy oh boy! How I regret to have chosen to read this complete nonsense!!
Nonsense Number 1: “ an appeal to faith is also an abandonment of reason.”
How much worse can you get? The sky is the limit, hahaha!
What I can say is this: “Soap and education . . .” hahaha
I am not interested in what other people think or believe.
10 unusual finds that challenged scientific beliefs: https://listverse.com/2019/01/30/10-unusual-finds-that-challenged-scient...
10 debunked scientific beliefs of the past: https://listverse.com/2009/01/19/10-debunked-scientific-beliefs-of-the-p...
I am not taking criticism from the scientific community. They have no ethical authority, to me they have no authority at all. They mean nothing to me. Let them stop wasting all those billion dollars in cancer research and find a cure for tumors and then MAYBE we can talk.
Evolution and cases of fraud, hoaxes and speculation: https://www.conservapedia.com/Evolution_and_Cases_of_Fraud,_Hoaxes_and_S...
The statement that appeal to belief is abandonment of reason is so stupid a retarded monkey can do better.
My belief in God strengthened the moment I started verifying that my belief in practicing the Gospel produced the effects that the same Gospel attributes to God. I could not care less about having the green light from the scientific community. It would be as though I asked someone with cerebral palsy to teach me to repair a computer.
I have faith in God. My way of communicating my faith is very simple and has nothing to do with Armin’s theories: try practicing the Gospel and you will get to see the results. But of course, people are too stupid to accept my challenge and I never managed to “convert” anyone. Still, that does not bother me: Jesus came to earth and tried to convert the Jews but He – God – failed. Simply because God does not want to impose Himself. You are free to choose whether you want to believe or not. I am one of the lucky few who quit his previous life and job in order to try. I suffered enormously, because I had to learn by myself from scratch, but today I am perfectly happy that I did. My option includes some reason too. But I would not like it so much if reason was the only tool in this process. First of all, with reason you do not get anywhere. Second, you run the risk of screwing your brain and become like Armin.
On the contrary, to me reason is fundamental when I have to cook, clean my arse, repair a computer, overhaul a car or a motorbike and plenty of irrelevant operations such as those.
Apart from that, I avoid the interference of reason, because I like the artistic touch, the eccentric line of thought and talk, the original touch in life’s occupations, lateral thinking, creativity and the like. Things that add spice to life, because in the long run rational talk bores me to tears.
The day I start believing that if I make a claim I have to back it up with evidence I will know the time has come to disappear from the face of this earth.
Armin talks about pottery and diamond necklaces, but they are not God, they bring no fancy surprises to my life, they are just worthless objects like the vast amount that fill this earth. I too would apply reason to them if it was not that I am not interested either in pottery or in necklaces. I am much more at ease with the challenge to disassemble a laptop - to replace the motherboard and reassemble the lot .
“Reality exists independently of your beliefs” says Armin. And I say “God exists independently of the whole scientific community.” The whole scientific community could disappear and the world would naturally go on all the same. Nothing is indispensable.
Whether you accept that or not, is perfectly indifferent to me.
This is the kind of language I like:
Matthew 13 New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Sower
13 That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. 2 Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”
10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”
11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:
“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’[a]
16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17 For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”
The Parable of the Weeds
24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’
28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.
“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”
The Parable of the Weeds Explained
36 Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”
37 He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.
The Parables of the Hidden Treasure and the Pearl
44 “The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field.
Re: Fergie - "Jesus came to earth and tried to convert the Jews but He – God – failed.".... (Emphasis on the, "...He - God - failed," part.)
So much for omnipotence... Somebody please remind me again why people worship this god... *puzzled look on face*...
Anyway, just wanted to highlight that little tidbit in case folks missed it in that last rambling and jumbled wall of sewage tsunami. Fergie keeps this up and I'm gonna be out of a job as comic relief around here soon.... *chuckle*...
This one is precious:
"and I never managed to “convert” anyone."
Say it ain't so, Joe. I mean, you had me as soon as you attacked rational thought and education.
Wait a minute ... our latest troll has tried to cite fucking Conservapedia as a purported source of legitimate scentific information?
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !
Ferguson, you do realise that the tosser who set this shitshow up, Andrew Schlafly, had his fucking arse cheeks handed back to him on a plate, napalmed and spiced with a sprinkling of depleted uranium, by Richard Lenski? You know, an actual proper scientist who knows what he's fucking talking about, unlike either Schalfly or you?
Oh, and if you want to peddle creationist bullshit here, be prepared to have the regulars treat you as a total bellend. Because only a total bellend would peddle creationist bullshit on a forum populated by people who paid attention in fucking class. If you think the retarded lies propagated by the likes of Conservapedia are worth bringing here, then you are, not to put too fine a point on it, an encephalitic jizz mollusc with cognitive functioning inferior to that of my dead budgie's claw clippings.
Now, do you have anything other than yet more steaming wank to present here?
Where oh fucking where did they put that 10,000 agrees button?
Is anyone really surprised ferguson would think conservapedia is a reliable source?
That ship sailed some time ago, clearly.
I think I have an idea of the correct answer. Look at this quote from ferguson, it's very edifying.
This one is a gem.
This cretin doesn't seem to be aware how many lives have been saved by that research, and why fixate on cancer anyway? Science has found cures for many diseases, and even completely eradicated some like smallpox. Diseases he believes his fuckwit imaginary deity created in the first place. You have to see the irony. If fergie knew anything at all beyond his blind adherence to risible archaic superstition, he'd know that cancer research has saved millions of lives.
fergie just can't open his gob without spewing out a pack of angry lies. So again it should hardly come a a surprise he is now quoting that stinking cesspit of creatard lies conservapedia. It was utterly predictable tbh.
Many believers make the claim their holy books are perfect, thus suggesting its divine origin. As the author points out this argument presupposes it's premise, the people who cite their scripture as evidence are the same people who already believe it to be true, this is obviously a form of circular reasoning, where an arguments premise presupposes it's answer, and therefore uses a begging the question fallacy. No different to saying "this is true because I believe it." As of curse fergie does in almost every one of his imbecilic posts, hardly surprising then he has resorted to making angry semi literate rants against this book, which exposes his blind beliefs and the fallacies that underpin them. It's been pointed out many times on here that documents cannot be self authenticating. The claims within the bible and the koran are not, nor can they be evidence for those claims. NB Ferguson rather hilariously doesn't understand the point as he actually keeps quoting scripture as if it is a valid rebuttal to this chapter, bless him, and therefore proves his point.
The author goes on to point out that holy books are rife with contradictions, and historical and scientific inaccuracies, again ferguson rather hilariously seems to think that this fact can be dismissed with angry and patently idiotic derogations of science, as if that method's veracity had not been established by a massive weight of objective evidence. The bible and koran may contain some grains of truth, but they also contain speculation, hyperbole and mythology, and are of course inconsistent and inaccurate. Every holy book contains errors, and the bible contains differing accounts, which makes sense when you consider that these books were cobbled together by multiple anonymous authors over centuries. If they were describing historical events the basic facts should be consistent form one account to the next, they are not of course, and nor does any evidence support many of the claims, from Genesis to the new testament. Some biblical claims are even inconsistent with observable scientific laws of the universe, Genesis being a perfect example, failing to get even the most basic chronology of the formation of the universe and our solar system. As of course does the koran, and these inaccuracies and inconsistencies make sense if they written by fallible humans ignorant of scientific facts we now take granted, but not when it is claimed it was divinely inspired perfect doctrine.
The author points out that muslims who claim the koran discovers scientific facts long before science actually discovered them are making ad hoc assumptions, if this were true then the writers of the koran would have discovered these facts at the time of writing, and science would not need to have discovered them. He also points out that the new testament makes contradictory and inconsistent claims about basic facts about the crucifixion.
Anyway you get the gist. Ferguson of course, has not even bothered to address the authors criticism, merely dismissed them all with hand waving and angry rhetoric. The fact he has no answers is again a glowing commendation of the authors criticisms of this religious argument. In fact if ferguson disagrees with something that is strong circumstantial reason to believe it has some veracity, as he has an uncanny knack of always being wrong about everything he says.
Chapter 10: “There is no evidence that God doesn’t exist”
It is hard to pin down what and atheist believes or does not believe because they keep shifting their arguments on the basis of what best suits them.
Armin says black on white that: “Lacking belief in something does not mean that you believe it to be false, it just means that you have no conviction that it’s true”
If that is the case, the problemi s Armin’s and not mine. I perfectly believe that God exists and nothing that Armin can say will afect my position.
If Armin does not believe in God simply because no believer can supply evidence of God’s existence he is in a fix.
I did not wait fopr someone to teach me how to repair a computer. I bought a faulty computer in order to disassemble it and see what it was like. When I saw that it was easy I started considering buying another faulty computer and, by trial and error, learn to repair it. Eventually I got the hang of it. I spent money in the process but money means nothing to me. Although in this world money is necessary, the saint used to rightly say that “money is the devil’s excrement”. And I believe that.
I did not wait for someone to teach me true religion in order to first believe that it would be like they said it would be. I took the risk and started adding one piece at a time to the puzzle. Sometimes I would make mistakes and sometimes I gort it right. In the end I became proficient because essentially religioni s very easy. Now I know religion works exactly like the Gospel says and that is all I wanted to find out.
Appealing to Carl Sagan, Bertrand Russell and Richard Dawkins amounts to the same appeal to authority that rationalists criticize when others use it. This is to show just one of the clear contradictions that rationalists love so much.
Personally, i don’t resort to the title-argument, so I do not have much to say on this issue.
I do not care about converting others. I had to suffer much to get where I am today and I am not going to waste time giving others the same food, ready-made and served on a silver tray. Let them suffer as I had too. Nothing worthwhile is obtained without suffering. I would maybe make an exception in the case of someone who can convince me that he is very serious about attempting the enterprise. But certainly not a reluctant atheist. He is waiting for evidence that God exists. He will never get that evidence so he prefers missing all the action and the glory due to his obtuse and stubborn mind and his short-sighted approach to life. It is none of my business.
My favourite movie is Rambo I. To me it is a symbolic movie about life in general. You get submerged by tons of manure from other people even when you are right and the only good response is to fight back, not violently of course. Fight back, don’t give up, fight for your dreams and succeed so that those who tried to crush you down do not get the upper hand.
Science cannot even prove how a though emerges from your mind. Of course, with their typical intellectual arrogance, they have theories about that. But no evidence.
What; a thought is produced by chemical reactions? My bollocks!! If that was the case, explain why chemical reactions in people’s brains are the same but thoughts are so different.
With their typical slave attitude, rationalists will swallow anything that scientists say, but not me.
Science one day will find a natural explanation for evrything? This is just the evidence I get that scientists are in bad faith, determined to find natural explanations for everything and putting the cart before the horse. They already have done away with the possibility that one day science may have to admit that the supernatural exists. They are narrow-minded, dishonest, unfair and full of prejudices. But I do not care. I do not need science to carry on with my system. I was in rural india: in my room there was simply a fan and a light-bulb. I did not have a car or means of transport. I ate what was dished out, what I could find in the market. Market people sat on the bare soil to sell their goods. I had no running water, just the well. There was no flushing the toilet or anything like that. I had to pump the small kerosene cooker in order to cook something. For 3 years I slept on the floor on a 3 cm thick ordinary Indian mattress. It was not exactly like in the caves, but certainly much much less than what we normally have in the West. Yet I managed: I like the rough life, the simple life. I hate modernity but I am having to put up with it. Although as I said I like Rambo, to me he is a softy.
I do not watch tv: I do not want to get infected by modern mentality. I much rather listen to old pop music on the radio. I would never buy a virtual reality appliance. I do not want to live long enough if the world is going to go the AI way. In the beginning I used to hate computers and I did not want toi have anything to do with tthem. Then in 2002 I decided to start wrting books and typewriters were no longer adeuate so I bought a laptop and learned to use it on my own. I fiddled a lot with it and even learnt to produce a 13-page Website but now I only use it for a few emails because the modern world has adopted that system and for writing documents. I do not buy newspapers, mostly just read the titles on the online ones but I am not on Facebook and things like that. When I get interested in a subject I do some research online and then buy a book: I like paper books. I use the computer to buy stuff that I cannot find in the streets. I have a smartphone but I only use ita s an old type phone, just for the odd phonecalls. I do not use Whatapp.Sometimes I use the pone’s camera but very rarely. My father was an electronics graduate and at home there was plenty of electronic stuff so I got curious about that and with time I learned to make electronic circuits from scratch but I had to learn by myself because my father would not teach me. He would not even talk to me: he hated me because of my lifestyle and my choices. Then traditional electronics fell out of fashion so I went on to fiddle with laptops but I do not do that anymore. Only when some friend needs help. Recently a friend brought me a broken down laptop. I happened to have the mobo at home so I replaced the mobo and the laptop started working alright again. I did not charge labor, only 60 dollars for the mobo that I had paid 90. My friend is a simple worker and has family so he cannot act like a big spender. I have an old printer because when I find long articles on the Web I print them because I do not like reading on the screen. In a nutshell, I try to keep the modern life as limited as possible. I have some music CD’s and I play them on my laptop.
During my life I had the luck of coming across some very clever books that I really enjoyed reading. I do not read novels. Only essays and hundreds of them. Apart from the Bible, I could not name one only book that I liked more than the others. Maybe the life of the Curate of Ars. Anything that debunks the hold that rational subjects have on modern day narrow-minded people is my choice. But nowadays I do not read much. I do not need to. By and large, at my age, I got to where I wanted to get.
All I want to do now is leave this brothel of a country, where nothing works properly and people only talk boring stuff and go to Ireland. I got it all sorted out (thanks to the Net), except getting a small place to live when the accomodation I booked for 9 months is over. But that should not be a big deal, although in Ireland finding accomodation is like finding a needle in a haystack. But it’s a new adventure. Europe is not India, is much more complicated. If it is going to be a new adventure, maybe my last one, you cannot have it all sorted out. There has to be some unknown variable.
Then it's pretty moronic to pretend you're critiquing his book, rather than the truth which is you're angry someone has offered sound rational rebuttals to some commonly used religious apologetics. Though of course your attitude is always the case with closed minded ignorant arrogant bigots, to be fair.
A lot on this week, but I'll try and offer a real critique of chapter 3 ASAP.
"Armin says black on white that: “Lacking belief in something does not mean that you believe it to be false, it just means that you have no conviction that it’s true”
If that is the case, the problemi s Armin’s and not mine. I perfectly believe that God exists and nothing that Armin can say will afect my position.
If Armin does not believe in God simply because no believer can supply evidence of God’s existence he is in a fix."
He is in a fix?
Fergi, please carefully think about this statement you made. "no believer can supply evidence of God’s existence"
If no believer can supply evidence, that is because there is no god?
Mankind has been able to locate, reveal, and create an image of the most elusive object in the known universe, a black hole. Yet a purposed deity that desires to be worshiped and has interacted with this reality has never zero evidence?
My foolish and ignorant friend, with your own admission you have created one of the most powerful arguments against the existence of any god.
1000 agrees's buttonn please?
Another one, the bible claims that if you're true believer, you can do miracle, but we do not see billions of christians healing eaach other, conjure ball of flames out of nothing and turn water into wine...
Could be that:
1. The most obvious one is that there is no God.
2. That he exists but he's a fucking liar.
3. There is nor True Christian. Irony???
The author points out that a miracle is defined as an event that defies natural or scientific laws, thus being statistically unlikely is insufficient, it must be “physically impossible” without supernatural intervention. Thus a much used example of miracles like someone surviving a disease thought to be terminal, only shows that the disease may not yet be fully understood, or the prognosis was inaccurate. So nothing supernatural is required to explain this phenomenon. The other next cites many human religions that believed in thunder gods, for example the belief that Zeus directly caused thunder by throwing lightning bolts to earth. Believed to me miraculous at the time as they didn’t understand thunder this now seems absurd to us in the light of scientific understanding of how lightning and electricity function perfectly naturally. It is of course argumentum ad ignorantiam, a common logical fallacy where a statement is claimed to be true because there is no contrary evidence. It’s a god of the gaps polemic.
Another problem with these sorts of claims is of course they are often unfalsifiable, and though ferguson doesn’t grasp the inference of this, many here will understand what it means for such claims, and that the burden of p[roof remains with the initial or larger claim. This would inculde claims about so called near death experiences, where scientists have shown these mysterious and compelling experiences can have a perfectly natural biological cause, even causing them by stimulating parts of a person’s brain.
The author goes on to talk about the human brain being hard wired to be pattern seeking, and how much of our perception of reality in this context is meaningless. The fact we see faces in clouds does not mean something supernatural has placed a face there, any more than Jesus has placed his image in a burnt piece of toast or a half-eaten taco. Our evolved imagination would have been a strong tool to aid survival, and thus a harmless rustling bush perceived as a threatening predator might result in harmless flight, the lack of this imagination might have resulted in our ancestors ending up a hot snack. The Darwinian implications are pretty obvious.
A scientific citation was offered here by the author “The evolution of Superstition and Superstitious like Behaviour” Kevin R Foster and Hanna Kokko.
Quote “natural selection will favour strategies that make many incorrect causal associations in order to establish those that are essential for survival and reproduction” Put simply, evolution is an insentient process and doesn’t concern itself anything outside of survival and reproduction.
All this shows that claims for miracles tell us nothing about the existence of a deity, thus the underlying premise of the theist claim of this chapter is fundamentally flawed, and demonstrated to be untrue.
@???? _ When does the actual critique begin?
The actual critique has been going on since the beginning, only you are expecting it in your language. I told you many times, but you are too dumb to understand, that I refuse to use your cold, arid, confused, rational kind of language. You have a one track mind, baby, I don't
Now fergie, we all know by now that you have the intellectual capacity of a sponge, but vapid angry rhetoric and disjointed rants filled with hand waving declarations of your blind faith in archaic fairytales is not a critique.
You havent addressed one single word of the book you dim-witted buffoon. And if you don't want to use rational objective cogent arguments then why the fuck do you keep wasting bandwidth in here, as no one cares about addled lunacy or your childish superstitious delusions.
If you want to just preach then find a fucking pulpit. This is a debate forum, not a revival tent meeting.
I have offered a proper (though brief) critique of chapters 1 through 3, and will continue to do so. Your drivel isn't worth wading through, as it offers absolutely nothing.
@Now fergie, we all know by now that you have the intellectual capacity of a sponge, but vapid angry rhetoric and disjointed rants filled with hand waving declarations of your blind faith in archaic fairytales is not a critique."
What He Said!
Oh really, then please list ten things you believe without any objective evidence that are not remotely related to your religious beliefs?
Or alternatively demonstrate the best objective evidence you have for any deity?
It's hilarious seeing someone accuse us of "one track minds", when he derailed from his own tracks a long time ago ...
I think maybe today I shall not be posting my comments to Chapter 11 because I have more important things to do. We shall see.