DEAR THEISTS - READ THIS BEFORE POSTING

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Cognostic's picture
DEAR THEISTS - READ THIS BEFORE POSTING

1. If evolution is wrong - being wrong will not validate the existence of your God. (It does not matter at all) The absence of an explanation for the diversity of life does not equal God.

2. While I am on evolution, please grasp the difference between the origins of life and evolution. They are not the same thing. You are confusing Abiogenisis, a study through a combination of molecular biology, paleontology, astrobiology, oceanography, biophysics, geochemistry and biochemistry, with the aim of determining how pre-life chemical reactions gave rise to life with evolution. EVOLUTION HAPPENS AFTER LIFE HAS FORMED.

3. You do not get to claim "creation." This is" begging the question." "A creation needs a creator." This is a completely fallacious assertion. Instead you might simply ask, "How did the universe get here or was it always here?"

4. Atheists do not need an alternative to magic and superstition. It is enough to simply not believe the claims of theists until those claims are supported with facts and evidence. Souls, Miracles, Prophecies, Prayer, Spirits, Blessings, mystical experiences and the rest mean absolutely nothing until facts and evidence for these things are presented. When facts and evidence are presented then they will not be mystical any longer. Wow! It's just so simple.

5. There are no valid arguments from the Sciences; Physics, Psychology, Sociology, Cosmology, Biology, Chemistry, Earth science, Archaeology, Anthropology, Mathmatics, Logic, Astronomy, Statistics, or any other science that asserts proof of the existence of a God. NONE!!! (You can all do yourself a favor and avoid looking completely stupid by not using examples from the sciences.)

6. There is no more valid historical data for your version of a god than there is for any other version of a god. Before you give us your knock down apologetic, ask yourself if the same attempt at justification could not be used for every other god on the planet. Pascal's wager, Kalam Cosmological, presuppositionalism, Teleological, Minimal facts, and the rest. THERE ARE NO NEW ARGUMENTS AND WE HAVE NOT ONLY HEARD THEM ALL BUT DEBUNKED THEM ALL.
THEY ARE ALL BASED ON LOGICAL FALLACIES.

7. We are not interested in your personal experiences. No one cares that you grandmother was cured of cancer. No one cares that you had an experience that you can not explain..."therefore God." It is not our job to explain your delusions. Explaining one delusion with a greater delusion is just a sign of being deluded.

8. Please do not tell us that life has to have a reason. Your reason is to worship your delusion and we are fine with that. Our reasons are vast and plentiful as atheists choose their own reasons for being here for the short time they will be here. If you want to spend your life on your knees believing in invisible beings, no one is stopping you.

9. Atheism is not a world view. Atheists do not share a world view. There is no atheist dogma of right or wrong and atheists in general do not profess to know all the secrets of the universe like the theists. If you want to find out an individual atheist's world view you will have to ask that person. The rest of us can not answer for him or her.

10. Don't quote from the bible when you don't even have any idea at all who wrote it. Your book means nothing to us. If you use it, we get to use it to, to remind you that your god is a complete fucking ass that runs about murdering people all throughout history.
I am sure I have forgotten a few things. Others may add to the list.

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boomer47's picture
@Cognostic.

@Cognostic.

Excellent post, but I fear a classic case of "pearls before swine"

I suspect you may be preaching to the choir. I doubt any creationist will read that or if they do, it will make not an iota of difference. Such people are impervious to critical thought (if indeed capable) as well as facts.

Plus, these are people who lack the wit to grasp that the book of Genesis is clearly allegory and myth, not history. A person with seventh grade education and of modest intellect can immediately see some of the more basic holes in Genesis as history;

EG it is impossible for the entire human race to have descended from one pair of humans. Noah's Ark could not have held the tiniest fraction of the earth's species, assuming the kangaroos etc could have gotten here .(the dimensions of the Ark are helpfully given in Genesis)

Great try though.

Thought for the day "Most people would rather die than think . Most people do" Bertrand Russell. :

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Cog

@ Cog

Jeez mate, don't beat about the Bush. Tell it straight will ya? Pussy footing around only encourages the buggers.

Sheesh, cant fling poo straight, cant insert your own bananas without help and now this...I give up. .

Calilasseia's picture
I would add at the beginning,

I would add at the beginning, "Learn how the rules of proper discourse actually operate, instead of pretending that they validate whatever fabrications you happen to be attached to. Learn the proper status of assertions, the proper means of converting assertions into postulates (true or false), and the proper rules of logic, not the bastardised ersatz thereof that you were peddled by your "pastor".

Tin-Man's picture
I like turtles.

I like turtles.

Tin-Man's picture
Okay, now that I got that

Okay, now that I got that whole turtle dilemma off my chest....

Hey, Cog, you could use the OP as the Ten Commandments of AR Posting.

(Edit to add...) But you should maybe spruce it up a bit by tossing in a few "Thou shalt not" and "Thou shall" lead-ins to help the theists understand them better.

Sheldon's picture
It's a false dichotomy

It's a false dichotomy fallacy that creationists use, claiming there are only two choices, evolution or creationism. Firstly we're not and never were limited in the number of choices, secondly evolution is objectively evidenced beyond any reasonable doubt. Lastly creationism is not supported by any objective evidence at all, at its core it has claims for supernatural causation, which not only have no explanatory powers at all, but is of course unfalsifiable, and thus entirely unscientific. Creationism is uperstitious hokum, and calling it ID just adds pseudo scientific nonsense to the fantasy.

However and as Cognostic points out, it doesn't even matter, as if evolution were entirely falsified, creationism would remain unevidenced superstitious hokum, and evolution makes no claims about the origins of life.

Pointing out evolution doesn't tell us how life originated is asinine, as neither does any other scientific fact, so the fuck what?

Cognostic's picture
@Sheldon: I knew someone

@Sheldon: I knew someone else would come up with something good. Excellent point!

LostLocke's picture
I'd also like to add that

I'd also like to add that many of the theists that post here think that "evolution vs creation" = "Atheism vs Christianity". This is patently false as...

A. Atheists have no "requirement" to believe evolution. You don't lose some kind of atheist membership if you choose not to accept that.

B. There are plenty of Christians, and others from other major world religions, who do accept evolution.

It's like they're trying to force everyone into one of two sides in this "debate" when there are multiple options besides two.

Cognostic's picture
@Tin - https://www.youtube
Tin-Man's picture
@Cog Re: Vid link BINGO!

@Cog Re: Vid link

BINGO!

Randomhero1982's picture
These idiots believe in a

These idiots believe in a magical pan dimensional wizard, you expect them to follow the rules of discourse? Or logic?

Fleeing in Terror's picture
If you want an in depth

If you want an in depth analysis of the points you raise, you can read "How We Believe - The Search for God an Age of Science" by Michael Shermer.

Cognostic's picture
@Mrs. Paul Owczarek:

@Mrs. Paul Owczarek: "Unfortunately we are not capable of distinguishing real patterns from false patters, its just the way the brain works." (Shermer)

That's why we have science, logic and reason to test those things that we believe. To pull them out of the realm of idea and into the light of tested, validated, empirical reality.

Fleeing in Terror's picture
I am an engineer. I usually

I am an engineer. I usually deal with science and logic daily. My mantra is - The engineering is easy. Getting people to play nice together is the hard part. That is the chapter in Mr. Shermer's book that I am reading now.

As you quoted him, I am assuming that you read the book. I am finding it very interesting and believe he makes some good points on the functions of the human brain and society.

Cognostic's picture
@Mrs. Paul Owczarek: Agreed/

@Mrs. Paul Owczarek: Agreed/ My Quote comes from understanding through videos and articles. I have not read the book.. I live in Korea and have no desire to create a collection of books that must move with me when I move. My very small collection are all counseling / psychology books that I read and reread for inspiration. I do keep the ones I consider inspirational. I have no doubt the book is every bit as good as his articles and personal appearances debates. I do have quite a few Atheist audio books on my computer. I usually listen to them at night while falling asleep. Shermer' has not yet made the collection but he is certainly on the list.

Fleeing in Terror's picture
Cognostic:

Cognostic:

I find references to a special branch of counseling - Church Hurt - for those suffering from religious abuse. If you are here, are you aware / part of that branch of counseling?

The reference I quote the most are the ones from the Australians, with the psychoanalysis of pedophilia. The psychology was also referenced in the A Section of Sunday's New York Times.

“Child Sexual Abuse in the Catholic Church; An Interpretive Review of the Literature and Public Inquiry Report” another free download through the Center for Global Research; School of Global, Urban and Social Studies, RMIT

Cognostic's picture
I have worked extensively

I have worked extensively with perpetrates of abuse and their families who were court ordered into counseling. The religious connection was not as prevalent 20 years ago as it is today. I have had one preacher thrown in Jail and identified as a sexual predictor. I help get another one fired from his church organization for doing sexual abuse counseling and allowing the abuse to continue for 8 years. I was not familiar with RMIT, probably because I am an ignorant American and like most Americans my understanding of other countries and global issues is severely lacking. Almost everyone in the world knows more about the American government and major issues in other countries than do the Americans. We are too busy buying cars and cell phones to pay attention to the world around us. It's sad but true and my travels around the world have only demonstrated to me my own ignorance.

Mutorc S'yriah's picture
Dear theists, please don't

Dear theists, please don't give us the Gish Gallop.
________________________________________

During a Gish gallop, a debater confronts an opponent with a rapid series of many [specious] arguments, half-truths, and misrepresentations in a short space of time, which makes it impossible for the opponent to refute all of them.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop
________________________________________

Pick a point of contention with narrow bounds. Give any NECESSARY supporting EVIDENCE, and logic. Respond to the same from AR posters, and with similar paucity of rambling.

Mutorc

Cognostic's picture
@Mutorc S'yriah: That's the

@Mutorc S'yriah: That's the same tactic William Lane Craig uses in debates. Common debaters tactic. Talk fast, get as much information in as you can and then claim that your opponent did not sufficiently address your points.,

RE: "Pick a point of contention" Wouldn't that be nice!!!!! 10000 agrees!

rat spit's picture
If Cognostic will not accept

If Cognostic will not accept the existence of an all powerful toilet in my head (who routinely talks to me); then I will not accept, validate, or accredit the tiny little voice in his head which gives him the ability to write such nasty, little things.

Psychology cannot account for or approximate the schizophrenic experience - viz. the qualia of the personalities we (the 8 % of the population who hear voices) encounter.

Cognostic's picture
@rat spit: Jay Haley,

@rat spit: Jay Haley, Strategies of Psychotherapy. "The pathological double bind," (Schizophrenia not only approximated but treated effectively in many cases.)

Toward a Theory of Schizophrenia
https://solutions-centre.org/pdf/TOWARD-A-THEORY-OF-SCHIZOPHRENIA-2.pdf

rat spit's picture
Before I talk about my mother

Before I talk about my mother - with all due respect, Cog. That paper is from 1956!

Okay. That being said; it makes some interesting points - which I will leave for any reader to discover.

My mother was coquette. I was raised without Father and from as early as I can recall was persistently forced to correct my mother’s faux pas. The faux pas were constant. My four half brothers could not stand her behaviour either. However she was the delight of any dinner party because she would laugh at jokes she did not get; which made us all laugh at her in turn - without anyone’s feelings getting hurt.

Indeed. I love my mother. However I am constantly at grips with her duplicitous thinking and childish behaviour. I still, to this day, must correct her fuck ups.

I tell my self to love her, because she is approaching death - and I will never get another chance to love her after that.

All things considered; is this why an all powerful stainless steel toilet threatens me with malicious comments. Although, I do not fail to see the relationship between these two considerations; I do fail to see a mechanism.

The paper you have so kindly suggested is preliminary work. Again; the qualia of schizophrenia is without explanation - and appeal to the supernatural is the only appeal that currently works for me.

I suppose it is not difficult for you, because you have your own voice to contend with. Well, I am so very glad you had a balanced upbringing you shit slinging monkey man! Tell ME about YOUR mother now!!!

NewSkeptic's picture
Seems to me if theists

Seems to me if theists followed all of those rules, we might just as well shut down the debate forum as there would be nothing at all for them to post.

Cognostic's picture
@NewSkeptic: Then we could

@NewSkeptic: Then we could all to to Tin Man's house for a big BBQ. We will cook and eat the Cowardly Lion.

Tin-Man's picture
@Cog Re: "We will cook and

@Cog Re: "We will cook and eat the Cowardly Lion."

Ummm... Just so you know, that might prove to a bit problematic. May be a little tricky finding him at the moment, because he has gone into hiding as of a few weeks ago.

You see, whattahappened-wuz, he was strolling toward the Emerald City one day on his way to get one of those spiffy hair styles he enjoys so much. And that is when those damn dirty flying apes decided to make an attempt to grab him, because they apparently had barbeque plans of their own. The details of how he managed to get away are somewhat fuzzy. But I heard it involved a large and potent quantity of involuntarily ejected fecal matter, along with a Keystone-Cops-quality exhibition by the flying monkeys as they attempted to avoid the deluge.... *shaking head trying to clear image from brain*... Anyway, poor ol' Leo has not been seen in public since then, and nobody knows for certain where he is. (The "trail" he left behind him while fleeing the scene finally dissipated a couple of miles down the road. Couldn't track him beyond that.)

Anyway, since Leo isn't available, do you like Munchkin meat?

NewSkeptic's picture
I'm not sure how tender CL

I'm not sure how tender CL would be anyway, too old and tough I would suspect.

As you know, we are supposed to be reducing our meat consumption anyway in order to save the planet. There must be some way to turn all that technicolor green vegetation into a meat substitute. We can contact Burger King for guidance.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ TM

@ TM

Its ok Tim, I found Leo hiding in my Trike Shed.
He is fine, just a bit shook up and very very hungry...he looked almost hollow. Your eye witness account does explain it!
Anyhoo he has polished off two cases full of large cans of "Kit E Treat" and all Eric's Unicorn kibble so he should be positively glowing by the time he gets back to you.
Of course he is full of bravado now, Eric and I will him escort back later tomorrow,
He suggested flying monkey as a BBQ treat? Apparently tasty when marinated overnight.

I would suggest Cog, Chimp 3 and the rest of the ape pack steer well clear as Eric is flippin' livid over the affair and I don't want to set him off on a wild ape hunt before supper tomorrow.
Erics rainbow coloring may look pretty when he is aroused but those hooves are meant for trampling and that horn can stop up a poo flinging aperture quick smart.
He's never forgiven Cog for that unfortunate incident when that poo snapped in mid whirl and caught him square on the colorising gland. He was dull stripey brown for weeks.

In Eric's book the only good monkey is a BBQ'd monkey, and that includes great apes....(Or not so great hairy bastards..signed...Eric)

So just keep them apes away or I can't answer for the consequences.

Cognostic's picture
@TIN: Well..... There are

@TIN: Well..... There are always Christian babies. With enough BBQ sauce they are eatable.

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