In defence of Polygamy

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Sheldon's picture
Misogyny involves choice the

Misogyny involves choice the other species you mention are not exercising choice, this the flaw in your reasoning. It has nothing to do with "leftist" it's about being a decent human being who empathises with others and cares about their well being.

"You can find your own citations if you are genuinely interested."

So you have no evidence to support your claim that most women are happy to share men, I can't say I'm surprised.

I notice you are not going to address the harm polygamy does, but read the book or at least do some research as it is a deeply pernicious practice. I don't give a fuck what bees get up to, but I do care when men use women as property, and coerce or even force underage girls into marriage.

Terminal Dogma's picture
Polygamy applies to legal

Polygamy is only meaningful in a legal context I am talking about polyandry which is our basic biology regardless of your moral judgments. Laws come and go, biology sticks. I am highly dubious of your claim it has much to do with misogyny...it's is/was necessity, evolution or both.

Sheldon's picture
" I am talking about

" I am talking about polyandry which is our basic biology regardless of your moral judgments. "

Why regardless? We have autonomy to overcome our biological urges, you're being absurd. How far would take your narcissistic views, rape ok? It fulfils a biological urge after all.

" Laws come and go, biology sticks."

In what sense? You seem again to be suggesting biological urges are good and laws and morals that restrict the more pernicious biological urges are bad, that's absurd.

"I am highly dubious of your claim it has much to do with misogyny"

It is self evidently misogynistic to disregards the rights of women, or to suggest women should have less rights than men, and claim without evidence that women are happy with this. Citing biological urges is a pretty moronic argument, as it would by inference justify deeply pernicious acts like rape and paedophilia, and of course those behaviours are quite common among men in polygamous societies. The fact that other animals do things humans choose to find immoral is a given, that doesn't justify the behaviour. This is the kind of moronic moral argument theists normally aim at atheists when they claim we lack morality.

Terminal Dogma's picture
@sheldon

@sheldon

"or to suggest women should have less rights than men, and claim without evidence that women are happy with this"

Re polyandry you really are displaying sexists attitudes degrading women with that quote. I know women that would smack you upside the head for saying that and guess what they are feminists.

You are basically saying women have no right to have the male of their choice if it means that male will be shared with other women ...you are sexist against women and don't know it. Furthermore you are ignoring reality. I already explained to you in depth that's how the human race is built...with less fathers than mothers and more men with more progeny than women. Deal with it.

Sheldon's picture
I never mentioned polyandry,

I never mentioned polyandry, you did, I was talking about polygamy, you can tell I was because the word polygamy is in my post and the thread title. I have no idea why you've segwayed into this non-sequitur.

"You are basically saying women have no right to have the male of their choice if it means that male will be shared with other women"

Nope, not even close, can you read?

"you are sexist against women and don't know it. "

By decrying your misogynistic comments and insisting women should have the same rights as men? You're trolling now to obfuscate.

"Furthermore you are ignoring reality."

No I'm not, Hitchens's razor applied..

" I already explained to you in depth that's how the human race is built..."

No you didn't, you made a raft of ludicrous claims, but then that appears to be your raison detre. Human beings are "built" to commit barbaric and pernicious acts like murder and rape, are you really so stupid as to believe we shouldn't create laws try to curb those instincts?

"with less fathers than mothers and more men with more progeny than women. Deal with it."

You haven't demonstrated any evidence for it, until then there is nothing to deal with, and even if it were true, this in no way justifies polygamy, and the pernicious practices that accompany it, like the erosion of women's rights, and the resulting abuses that follow.

Again this is well documented and I offered an excellent book detailing the ruined lives of women and girls that are raised in polygamist societies. You're a chauvinist and a misogynist, this has now become clear, and tbh I think we're done now.

Sushisnake, back to you.

LogicFTW's picture
@Thread

@Thread
Quick primer on definitions guys:

"Polygamy is the practice of marrying multiple spouses. When a man is married to more than one wife at a time, sociologists call this polygyny. When a woman is married to more than one husband at a time, it is called polyandry."

Polyamory is when you love more than 1 person. It is also frequently used to mean having more than 1 sexual partner you are involved with, but sex/intimacy is commonly a part of, but not required for polyamory relationships.

Polyamory of the sexual kind does not necessarily mean bad outcomes. But it is a minefield of jealousy, and all too often abuse. Especially unfortunately polyamory of the polygyny kind. I would say overall polyamory is not nearly as despicable as the arranged marriage of young girls, to sometimes much older men. Then of course there is the whole sex trade, where all kind of abuses occur, and by far the most chilling is underage abuses.

Polyamory done right is not a bad thing, but it is fraught with danger and difficult to carry out correctly jealousy is a powerful emotion. And too often horrible things happen under the guise of polyamory or especially polygamy. But frequently there are already laws in place about everyone's rights, anti rape laws etc.

Sheldon's picture
I wondered why he'd brought

I wondered why he'd brought polyandry up, he perhaps meant polyamory.

Sushisnake's picture
@TermDog

@TermDog

I think you need to clear up how "polyandry which is our basic biology
...deal with it" fits with your claim " polygamy mostly means males with multiple wives...
(and) That's a reflection of female inherent nature", when polyandry means a woman takes two or more husbands at the same time. It can't be both, TermDog, so which is it? Are we naturally polygamous or polyandrous?

Oh wait a minute! You said " Imo the best model of civilization involves a monogamous hetero couple where the male goes out to earn an income and the mother nurtures and raises the children." on the preceding page of this thread.

So there you have it, folks:
*our basic biology is polyandrous.
* the female's inherent nature is polygamous
* but the best model is a monogamous heterosexual couple

It's no wonder there's so much misery in the world. We're all fighting our very natures. Hell! Women are both polyandrous AND polygamous at the same time! What a mess!

the universal's picture
There are different forms of

There are different forms of Polygamy marriage.

The Atheist and The Islamic cultures practice a form of an orgy type of the massive passing around the women in sexual marriage and sexual adventures and other various trade and barter situations.

Muslims and Atheists have major problems in their communities with heart disease, mental disorders, and musculoskeletal disorders. The Polygamy Of Islam and Atheists where the women are frequently passed around in a sexual circle has caused massive "Genetic disorders in the Atheist and Muslim world"

Hemoglobin disorders, inherited metabolic diseases, neurogenetic disorders, heart problems and birth defects are common among Muslims and Atheist populations.

In the strict Muslim communities around the world, however, Muslims have been able to greatly reduce and oftentimes eliminate completely its sexually transmitted diseases that are rampant in the Atheist community because the Muslims do not permit homosexuality. Atheists, however, have the very highest rate of homosexuals in their communities and Atheists are the highest in sexual diseases and there are millions upon millions of atheists infected today with every sexual disease known to mankind. Atheists have caused havoc and suffering to millions of innocent people who are uneducated and unaware of the dangers of sexual behavior that has led to millions of deaths, infections and suffering people across the world. infection is spread across the world, connecting the atheist’s communities.

We can see the difference in between the Atheist and the Islamic community where homosexuality is promoted, worshiped, and celebrated as a law in Atheists and in Islam homosexuality is completely against the law.

Muslims who abide by this law have very little sexually transmitted diseases.

Atheists downplay the facts as they often direct the problems of sexual behavior and bad marriage practices on small, fractional tiny marginal groups like the Mormons who have had a very, very small percentage of child molestation cases that are not even high enough of a percentage or rate to even be included in the overall statistics of all cases.

Today my jaw is dropped in horror and shock as I see my fellow atheists pointing their fingers at religion, The Bible and religious groups while their communities are infected with diseases and rampant with child molesters. I see the atheist community only concerned with the religions child molesters while they ignore the rest of the cases.
It seems that If a homosexual is not religious then the atheist simply does not seem to notice or mind that the homosexual or bisexual is molesting a child. The relative human and economic costs of these diseases are rising and expensive medical care is needed. Here in the United States, the Atheist community is draining the taxpayers as they conduct their atheist polygamous lifestyle.

Millions are infected with diseases as well.

Muslims who also live in this form or type of polygamous lifestyle has caused a high rate of Muslims with recessive disorders and increased risk of chromosomal disorders such as Down's syndrome. this type of polygamy where women are passed around as we see in the atheist community causes a high risk of inherited genetic disease in their offspring, resulting in many birth defects and genetic disorders.

However, the Bible Polygamy is a lifetime commitment with no divorce. This atheist and Muslim form of marriage - This is called adultery. The Bible demands a marriage monogamy or polygamy wherein there is no divorce.
The passing around of partners that spread diseases to millions of people is not allowed.

I do not believe In God, however, I can look at the Bible and see that the authors had really great intentions. I hope that my fellow Atheists can accept the facts and not continue to point the finger at religion in order to solve the problems that their own lifestyle continues to create.

this is not even counting the billions of misbegotten children whose Athiest and Muslim mothers have moved on to new partners or customers and the children from the previous father or mother are just not as important anymore. And with Atheists, they just hack them to pieces in the womb or burn them out with acid solutions or suck their brains out as the little atheist's babies are being born. This also is a major refugee crisis in Islamic marriage and a tremendous taxpayer burden caused by atheists here in the United States. The Bible Christian family and all responsible, are expected to pay for the fuel and supplies and the funding of the Atheist's and Muslim's sexual adventures, pleasures, joys, and raptures and expected to pay atheists for their time as they toss their children into the trash as they demand to be reimbursed for the next seXual gratification and the move or opportunity to run and hump -n- thump again.

Sheldon's picture
Bigoted religious hokum.

Bigoted religious hokum.

Sushisnake's picture
@The Universal

@The Universal

Re: " In the strict Muslim communities around the world, however, Muslims have been able to greatly reduce and oftentimes eliminate completely its sexually transmitted diseases that are rampant in the Atheist community because the Muslims do not permit homosexuality."

I'm guessing you're talking about HIV and AIDS, since you're on about "homosexual" diseases: looks like your claim that they don't exist in Muslim majority countries is dead wrong, though, mate. In fact, there's an epidemic and it's getting worse. 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(13)61033-8/abstract

 https://www.vice.com/en_au/article/wdb8kn/hiv-in-the-islamic-world

 https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nyti...

And apparently Islam isn't protecting the faithful from other STIs, either:

 https://academic.oup.com/femspd/article/24/4/431/503360

Re: "this is not even counting the billions of misbegotten children whose Athiest and Muslim mothers have moved on to new partners or customers and the children from the previous father or mother are just not as important anymore"

WTF?

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LogicFTW's picture
I really hope you do not

I really hope you do not actually believe all of what you just wrote. It is so wrong on so many levels it is actually quite comical to me.

Sadly I think it is more likely you actually do believe this sort of stuff rather then just trolling.

Pretty sad when I actually hope you are simply trolling. Instead of caught in a prison of fear, misinformation and hatred towards the dreaded unknown and "different."

Tin-Man's picture
@Universal

@Universal

Hey, Goldilocks, were you born with a natural ability to talk out of your ass, or is it something you had to practice really hard to learn over many years? Because from what I have read from you so far, you seem to be quite the natural. But if you had to work hard at it, I must say you make it look sooooo easy. Bravo!.... *clap-clap-clap*

CyberLN's picture
The Universal has been

The Universal has been escorted from the building.

Sushisnake's picture
I hope you gave him the

I hope you gave him the number of a good therapist, Cyber.

CyberLN's picture
I gave him directions to an

I gave him directions to an unoccupied bridge.

Sushisnake's picture
Better that than directions

Better that than directions to the railway tracks, I guess. Waiting for trains can be tedious.

mickron88's picture
"unoccupied bridge."

"unoccupied bridge."

so that was "the universal"....the poor guy just jump from the bridge, i tried to grab him but he rant bullshit at me so i pushed him intentionally . and he fell from the bridge..

oh,did i say he jumped? anyway..bwahahahah...

Tin-Man's picture
@Q

@Q

No, no, Q. You aren't feeling well, are you? Must be this damned heat. That poor fellow jumped, and... you... were... never... there. Got it?....*touching your forehead*..... Oh, you poor thing. I think you have a fever. Let's get you inside where it is cool before you have any other nasty hallucinations. *tsk-tsk-tsk*

Sheldon's picture
I don't say this enough, but

I don't say this enough, but thank you.

CyberLN's picture
You’re welcome.

You’re welcome.

Tin-Man's picture
@Cyber Re: Universal is

@Cyber Re: Universal is gone

WHATT???.....Aww... C'MONNNNN!... AGAIN???.... You do that on purpose, don't you?... You booted him out just as I was posting my reply to him. Do you have, like, ESP or something? *grumble-grumble-pout-pout*..... Yeah, yeah. I know. Shut up and go to my room. Way ahead of ya..... *walking away toward my room kicking the dirt as I go*...... *turns back around after a few steps*.... Just so you know, though, I'm really glad you got rid of that guy. He was quite a disturbed individual..... *continues toward room*...

Sushisnake's picture
Lol!

Lol!

Terminal Dogma's picture
Rholadino (spl) famous soccer

Rholadino (spl) famous soccer guy going to marry two women.

@sheldon misogyny??

Google some images, looks so not misogyny.... and those women don't mind sharing.

Why don't you tell those women you are outraged.

Sheldon's picture
Do you think repeating this

Do you think repeating this lie will make it any truer?

Terminal Dogma's picture
Your right, those girls look

Your right, those girls look so oppressed, prolly choosing matching Porsches for the wedding as we speak.

Cognostic's picture
Loads of opinions here: I

Loads of opinions here: I could care less who marries whom. A man once married a horse in Kentucky.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1215863/Man-reveals-married-...

I am AGAINST ALL MARRIAGE:

1. The government has no business telling us who can be with whom or for how long.

2. The Church has nothing at all to do with marriage, not even in the world we live in today. Church weddings are symbolic at best. Any Christian, religious person, who goes to a Church, Synagogue, Temple, or are married by the Capetian of a ship, are NOT legally married until they get that little slip of paper from the Government.

3. The government should have no hand in marriage what so ever. People should be allowed to enter and exit relationships as they like. People who have children should still be mandated by law to care for those children but whether or not the parents stay together is up to the parents.

ENTER POLYGAMY: It's nobody's business. Consenting adults who live alternate life styles are not harming anyone. Leave them the hell alone. If people are in a polygamous lifestyle and they are enjoying it, leave it alone.

WITH THAT SAID>>>
Many of these relationships in the world today occur because young girls are groomed to be in polygamous relationships. This happens throughout Islam and in many Christian Cults. The Mormons are well known for their polygamous sects. THIS IS NOT OKAY. (Please recall I said "consenting adults.") No child should be forced into an alternative lifestyle by the adults around them. This is child abuse and I have no problem with government intervention in these cases.

Sushisnake's picture
@TermDog

@Cog

Re: "ENTER POLYGAMY: It's nobody's business. Consenting adults who live alternate life styles are not harming anyone. Leave them the hell alone. If people are in a polygamous lifestyle and they are enjoying it, leave it alone."

I agree with 98% of what you said, Cog- but if "...young girls are groomed to be in polygamous relationships" all their lives, how can we call it informed adult consent when they hit 18? I'd have exactly the same concern about young boys being groomed for polyandry. What safe guards do you put in place to prevent that, especially given a government with no regulatory role to play?

Edited for clarity. And because I mistook Cog for TermDog. Worrying, that.

algebe's picture
@Cognostic: People who have

@Cognostic: People who have children should still be mandated by law to care for those children but whether or not the parents stay together is up to the parents.

Look at it from the point of view of the children. I think they deserve to have a mother and father there for them until they are fully grown. People who don't want the responsibility shouldn't have kids. If they have kids, they should do the time. It can be the most rewarding experience in life.

Children have rights. Parents have duties.

CyberLN's picture
Cog, you wrote, “People who

Cog, you wrote, “People who have children should still be mandated by law to care for those children but whether or not the parents stay together is up to the parents.”

I think that is wholly dependent on how what that care would include. There are many people who are biological parents and should never be allowed around children.

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