Defending and attacking Religion

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Wicked Clown's picture
Defending and attacking Religion

I will despise Religion and voice great hatred for it due to what I loathe about Religion. However, I will defend what I like about Religion. I'l give an example of what Religion did that was good for me. As a Catholic I was taught that not just faith and worship of God would get me to Heaven. I was taught that these were my responsibility and I found peace and joy doing this:

Seven corporal works of Mercy:

To feed the hungry;
To give drink to the thirsty;
To clothe the naked;
To harbour the harbourless;
To visit the sick;
To ransom the captive;
To bury the dead.

The spiritual works of mercy are:

To instruct the ignorant;
To counsel the doubtful;
To admonish sinners;
To bear wrongs patiently;
To forgive offences willingly;
To comfort the afflicted;
To pray for the living and the dead.

I was taught that Love was more important than Faith or good works and that prophesy, healing, martyrdom, and any good work is nothing without love.

Was taught that the greatest commandment was to love God with all one's heart, soul, and might. Was taught that to be forgiven one must forgive from the heart.

Was taught not to judge, not to be proud, avoid lust, anger, envy, laziness, and gluttony. Prayer empowered me and transformed my heart and outlook at times. Religion helped me quit street drugs and avoid crime.

So that was all great.

However, Some of what I hated about Religion was this teaching that others need to believe what you do to be saved, good people will be eternally damned if they don't accept Jesus as their Lord and savior, we have to accept everything by faith because God is too worthless to speak up and give us understanding, and the Bible has about as much incoherent trash for every piece of wisdom.

I also got sick of the confusion that Religion is regardless of your denomination, and the guilt and scrupulosity that is inevitable when you are aware that souls are going to Hell daily and you/I could be next.

However, since most people here despise Religion, I'd like to debate with you about the benefits of Religion. This isn't to troll, but to grow in understanding. Maybe you will convince me that some of my views are wrong.

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CyberLN's picture
Wicked, I was taught all

Wicked, I was taught all those lovely things you mentioned without mention of any god(s). In turn, I taught my children the same and they are teaching their children to be good without god(s).

It is often said that those who do good for the reward of a heaven are not truly behaving morally since they look only to the payoff for themselves.

The kewl thing about not being an asshole simply because it's the right thing to do is that one doesn't then have to be victimized by the crap so many religions bring in their wake. A win - win situation, eh?

SammyShazaam's picture
Lol, same here. If it takes

Lol, same here. If it takes religion to make you into a good person, then in my opinion you're not really that good of a person after all. Most of us don't have to take bribes or be scared into doing the right thing.

I used to be a big participant in charities and missions, because they were doing what I thought was good work despite their religious leanings. Now that I'm older, wiser, and have seen the surreptitious way that churches spread even the most poisonous of their ideology through "charity", I stick to *purely* secular organization and agendas.

ex-christian_atheist's picture
Religion does more harm than

Religion does more harm than good. Anything good that religion provides can be found without religion. The good teachings can be taught in a secular manner, without imparting the critical thinking skills of children in the process. And even better, it adds in that we should behave this way because we want to make other people happy, not so we can make god happy and avoid eternal punishment.

ex-christian_atheist's picture
I suppose this makes the real

I suppose this makes the real question "Is there anything religion provides that you can't acquire without religion, therefore avoiding all the bad things religion causes?

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
I am an anti-theist, however

I am an anti-theist, however i have to be hones and say that there is some good to religion

It does give good moral or happiness to some people.
people thend to feel good when they are doing something not forthemselves , but even better if they are following a goal not set by them, it gives a sens of unification.

Is it in anyway a force for good, well not really.

I would compare religion to a drug.
It makes you happy and has some positive effects as long as you don't let it control you.

The problem is that all religions are about control and money.

So drugs are bad but religion is worse.
They both have their good sides but cannot be compared to their bad sides.

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
agree with ex-christian,

agree with ex-christian, everything mentioned by the OP can be achieved without the need of GOD.

Except the spiritual part :)

To instruct the ignorant;

One must also see that religion deals with most problems in a bad manner while if approached with a rational or scientific manner, these would be more effectively solved.
While religion asks you to believe without confirming, just because I claim that god says so.

Bruce Birkett's picture
I think it all depends on how

I think it all depends on how you look at things. As we are just another species of mammal who resides on the planet, we should on all counts act like other animals, eg; survival of the fittest, meaning biggest strongest smartest sneakest should have a greater chance of survival and especially appling to the male gender, have a better chance at adding to the DNA pool. But due to humans evolving a larger brain than there other cousins the great apes eg; Bonabos Chimpanzees Gorillas and Orangutans,and developing a conscience awareness of themselves, there environment etc, it made them aware that behavior that should be an evolutionary advantage eg; bullying stealing what you need killing your opponent became frowned upon. Today people with this qualities are called psychopaths and a lot of them end up in prison. What lead to this.
Over the years of Homo sapiens development fear developed superstition, superstition was built into varing coded religious beliefs. Theses were also built alongside growing civilized behavior as humans lived together in larger groups and to survive these groups needed laws so the did not end in bloodshed and anarchy, there was much bloodshed on the way, but the most successful people had a better civilized approach, and alot to do with this was there belief systems.
Today our societies, and I speak as a Australian citizen, are structured on these past principles eg, the ten commandments thy shall not steal etc, also alot that is written in the New Testament is also taken and used to have a cohesive society, other countries have there own societal structures based on there own religious beliefs eg Hinduism, Buddhism, which keeps the general population in check.
So what I am getting at is yes I do think religion has helped past generations to build the societies we have today, as it is not really natural behavior to help others and cooperate to the extent humans do,Chimpanzees do to a certain extent. So if you believe in having a civilized society many of the rules and codes of good behavior were often or not taught as religious discipline.
I do think we could live without out any religions and use there best principles to develop a harmonious egalitarian society, but there are always those psychopaths waiting to take advantageand pick off the weak as is the evolutionary principal, Survival of the fittest.

Von Draco's picture
Bruce, I honestly don't think

Bruce, I honestly don't think you understand what "survival of the fittest" means in a Darwinian sense. You're displaying a total ignorance of biology; bigger brains don't mean better. I'll also grant that perhaps English isn't your first language, so no problems there. And ... "killing your opponent became frowned upon?" Right, that's why nobody ever dies in wars.

Lmale's picture
After some research into

After some research into islam thanks to gregpeks topics i can say that religion inparticular needs to be removed.

By the way please check my science is awesome post for news about creation of life.

Wicked Clown's picture
Islam is definitely one of

Islam is definitely one of the greatest diseases that mankind has ever been afflicted with.

Valiya's picture
Hi LMale

Hi LMale

Since, you opened up the topic of Islam... i couldn't resist coming in here. If you could explain to me what made you feel so about Islam, may be I can present my views too.

Wicked Clown's picture
[quote]I suppose this makes

[quote]I suppose this makes the real question "Is there anything religion provides that you can't acquire without religion, therefore avoiding all the bad things religion causes?[/quote]

Religion can provide a motivation for something greater than what any human or possession or temporal success can provide. Some people will be motivated more by this than what would motivate them were they to not believe in an afterlife or infinite eternal creator who loves them and will offer them eternal bliss and reward.

Lmale's picture
Hard to judge christianitys a

Hard to judge christianitys a little bit calmer than islam atm but in history has been worse than islam.

Lmale's picture
Yes modern islam is worse

Yes modern islam is worse than modern christianity but historically christians were horrendous, christianity had enforced conversion leviticus judges deuternomy the inquisition witch trials history of church pedophelia endorsed slavery tried hard to suppress knowledge if they had there way women would still be treated as the muslims treat theirs and has campaigned tirelessly against homosexuals the new law in uganda was due to christianity.
I didnt add the crusades cos that was also islam call that one a draw.

Von Draco's picture
OK, you DO understand that

OK, you DO understand that saying that "historically christians (sic) were horrendous" and pointing to the Old Testament for some justification just makes you look silly? Not saying that I disagree with you, but please, use a little more intelligence in your examples.

Lmale's picture
I pointed out the inquisition

I pointed out the inquisition witch trials church pedos forced conversion support of slavery and you moan that i included leviticus which was followed to the letter.

SherryBomb's picture
Religion today has a lot to

Religion today has a lot to answer for. Wars were started over religion and some haven't stopped to this day. In saying that it has also given some people the strength to continue in life when times are hard to deal with. So even though I am an Atheist I do feel that if religion helps by giving you strength to lead a better life and to stay strong then it can't be a bad thing to believe that there is a God. I myself am not a person who is weak and who needs to believe in a God.

metbul's picture
I was raised by Muslim

I was raised by Muslim parents who are not very religious. I even have never seen my dad praying during the time of my life and my mom never wanted to guide me how to pray as I had asked her many times to do so.
I think my parents want me to find the right religion myself because they come from different backgrounds, my dad was a Buddhist (now he's Muslim). In my searching of the right religion and God, I honestly hardly felt 'get lost'. Naturally, I do feel comfortable living without rules of religion since I was a child. But of course, I hide it from people because I live in Indonesia where most of people are religious.

What I want to share with you is...yes, religion has some positive sides. Then I re-think it and well, to feed hunger, to do kindness to people and all of those humanity can do that without getting lessons from the bible, Quran, and etc. It comes from ourselves, we as human have empathy.

Lmale's picture
Feed the poor. 'Saint' teresa

Feed the poor. 'Saint' teresa withheld money ear marked for the poor and gave it to the vatican.
The church barely contributes to charity its worth billions and spends only millions.
Im pretty sure the only reason they donate anything is to keep people from calling them a business and demanding they pay tax.

Ellie Harris's picture
Religion is an untruth that

Religion is an untruth that if relied upon can harm or kill. There are no good parts about an untruth.

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