Doctor Assisted Death...or Take Your Own Life

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Old man shouts at clouds's picture
Doctor Assisted Death...or Take Your Own Life

I am believer in the sovereign right of the individual to regulate their own lives as they see fit without interference from any outside source.

It seems illogical to allow extremely dangerous activities (even the simple act of driving a car or more risky a motorbike) which result in hundreds of thousands of casualties and deaths per year worldwide, while in many countries the simple act of peacefully relieving oneself of the pain and suffering of an already terminal illness is denied on pain of imprisonment.

The States in Australia are debating this and Victoria has already taken steps to legalise euthanasia and self death under medical supervision. under very strict conditions. The vote was lost in South Australia by one senator...

Should the right to painless death be extended to all?
Should it be restricted only to those with terminal illness?
Should it be only available under medical supervision and after mandatory counselling or should "death drugs" like Nembutal be available over the counter?

What (if anything) does a god or gods have to do with this?

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algebe's picture
@Old man shouts... "Should

@Old man shouts... "Should the right to painless death be extended to all?"

With some specific safeguards, yes. Gods and their front men should be kept right out of it. Who the hell do they think they are anyway?

People kill themselves all the time. Often they end up suffering great pain and even harming others by accident. For example, a few years ago a man hurled himself off a high-rise in Tokyo and killed someone on the ground. There should be a safe, painless exit for those that really want it.

LucyAustralopithecus's picture
I would agree to an extent

I would agree to an extent but their mental capacity must be taken into account.
are they making an informed decision and not being forced into it is a fear.

Sky Pilot's picture


That's something most of us might experience if we get a terminal illness. At that point you may or may not be able to make a conscious decision whether you want to quickly end it by your own hand or endure the full experience of dying. As for myself I have no idea how I will react. I have seen a lot of people in that situation. My opinion is that you don't get a gold star for suffering. It really sucks from an observer's pov. I'm not fearful of dying, I just don't want it to take all day. One thing is for sure and that is we will all die. It's a good idea to plan for it and to have our affairs in order to make it easier for our survivors. So make out a will, write your obituary, pre-pay your funeral expenses, and have a book with all of your important papers readily available.

Grinseed's picture
Sorry Old Man but I believe

Sorry Old Man but I believe the Assisted Dying bill passed in the Victorian lower house late last year.

The senate passed the bill earlier in the month in a conscience vote 22 to 18 and then the lower house ratified the bill 47 to 37.
A very convincing win.
The effects of the act will not occur until mid 2019. It is considered by some to be the most conservative assisted voluntary dying bill in the world.
During the lower house debate some politician was rushed off to hospital, heart attack?, and the debate was delayed.

But if you do correct me and the whole thing went arse over during the holiday break, I cant say I would be surprised and I would heavily expect the religions nut jobs being responsible.

But as to your questions:

Painless death should be available to all, who wants to die in pain? However I draw the line at open suicide, there are other avenues severely depressed people can take but the terminally ill only have one solution, of them, those who want to die and can make clear their desire to do so verbally or by sign (for deaf mutes) or in prepared statements, ie do not resuscitate requests, should definitely have that right.

It should only be available under medical supervision and no, "death drugs" should not be available over the counter.

Gods and their minions have no right in determining how others should die.

Palliative care in this country is pretty good, but the end treatment involves little more than morphine hits and kind remove the pain but the morphine leaves the sufferer unable to communicate or even think straight.
It might assist the duration of the life but does nothing for the quality.
The religions don't seem to understand this subtle difference between quantity and quality of life. I suspect they just want to put off for as long as possible the dreaded prospect of being judged by their god, being found wanting, as they suspect, and being cast into that particular hell they fear.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
oops I transposed the two

@ Grinseed
oops I transposed the two bad, now corrected

Cronus's picture
All we ask - if you're going

All we ask - if you're going to do it in a messy manner - say sucking on the business end of a 44 magnum - do it somewhere where we can clean up the mess easily with a fire hose.

Thank you.


The Janitorial Staff

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Cronus

@ Cronus
And that is exactly the problem. So many are taking their own lives, messily, dangerously(to others) and in some cases the relatives who "assisted" by doing nothing end up with criminal records.

Do you think that "self death" drugs should be available to all either with or without prescription?

Cognostic's picture
Should the right to painless

Should the right to painless death be extended to all? ABSOLUTELY I have horror stories of the people I have cared for as they rotted away in Nursing Homes. As long as the bed is full and the money is coming in, everything will be done to keep you alive. (IT'S A CRIME)

Should it be restricted only to those with terminal illness?
Quality of life is more important than anything else. When a person who is mentally sound makes the decision to end his or her life, assistance should be available. How and when a person dies is a personal matter. Those who disagree with this can let the doctors and the nursing homes extend their lives into pain, incontinence and senility, but those of us who wish to avoid this deterioration should be afforded the opportunity.

Death Drugs are already available over the counter or on the streets. If a person really wants to end their life, no one can stop them. People OD every day; sometimes intentional and sometimes not. NOTE: above I asserted "With a sound mind." This decision must be made prior to a mental disorder. Counseling would be mandatory for the simple purpose of detecting pathology. If the logic is sound and the reasons sane, there should be no legitimate reason to prevent a person from ending their own life. Helping them would sure save on bed-sheets in Las Vegas Hotel Rooms. (If you have not heard of all the Suicides in Vegas, look it up. Many people opt to go out with one more big fling,)

Look, anyone who really wants to end their life can do it. It's easy. Cocaine, heroin, alcohol, PCP, animal tranquilizer, poisonous plants, puffer fish, and millions of other things are out there in the world and readily available and many are not painful at all. All legalization does is regulate the process and make it much neater than it is today.

Cronus's picture
Not a real fan of drugs. Too

Not a real fan of drugs. Too iffy.

I don't know why hypobaric chambers aren't used.

Cheap, painless and 100% guaranteed to work.

curtisabass's picture
Razors pain you

Razors pain you
Rivers are damp
Acids stain you
Drugs cause cramps
Guns aren't lawful
Nooses give
Gas smells awful
You might as well live.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Nitrogen asphyxiation is not

Nitrogen asphyxiation is not a bad way to go.

bigbill's picture
what is happening here now is

what is happening here now is that people are playing God things like abortion and the right to end life euthanasia; When will it ever end as long as the scientific community goes unchecked you will see these kind of arguments put forth, I think it`s time to put science under scrutiny to what they can and cannot discover. there venturing out into deep and troubling waters. What will be next?

Tin-Man's picture
@AB RE: "...I think it`s

@AB RE: "...I think it`s time to put science under scrutiny to what they can and cannot discover..."

Aaaaaand I do believe I just lost valuable IQ points by simply reading that sentence. Ouch! (Does anybody know of a med kit stash on here like in those battle video games? I think I am in need of a recharge.) AB, are you even REMOTELY aware of some of the crap you write, or do you somehow "zone out" to some other dimension while your body goes on autopilot at the keyboard?.... Aw, crap.... Please excuse me a moment. Gotta go plug my ears before my brain oozes out completely....

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
"I think it`s time to put

"I think it`s time to put science under scrutiny to what they can and cannot discover"

Tin-man, I don't think he's wrong. We already put science in check for good reasons. If I want to conduct research, the first thing I need to do after I propose it is wait for approval from the Internal Review Board.

There are things we simply can't and should not attempt to discover. Particularly when it involves humans subjects. You could almost argue the endeavor is self-regulated. Many of these ethical guidelines that I have to follow, came about precisely because people did similar experiments in the past, and we saw the devestating results.

David Killens's picture
In the dark ages, no doctor

In the dark ages, no doctor would dare explore a body to determine if men had one less rib. That is how absolutely stupid religion is, stifling such simple things as medical knowledge.

Science should not have any limits placed on it, on how far we desire to learn, or else we would plunge ourselves back into a dark age.

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
Well as I mentioned, modern

Well as I mentioned, modern science would be the first to disagree with you. Here's a certificate which says I understand my limits when conducting research.

There are certain international guidelines in place, mostly as a result of the experiments conducted during WW2. But then there are further guidelines, which are written and enforced by fellow scientists in the field.


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CyberLN's picture
AB, you wrote, “what is

AB, you wrote, “what is happening here now is that people are playing God”

Well, you are actually quite correct. People do so because there isn’t a god to do it.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture

Suicide either noble or from necessity has been happening since man became self aware. The point of this forum topicis to get rational conversation going about the rights of the individual to end their own life at a point of their choosing. You know. AB, that "Free Will" concept as it applies to choice of death.
Science has no bearing in this conversation. Please try an intelligible, on topic comment in future.

bigbill's picture
Well I would argue that its

Well I would argue that its because of science the methods the devices the drugs the chemicals is the real problem. and of course the government; You know we have the FDA who supervise drugs to be consumed by the public they have to review the drug and then decide if it is made available to the public; But funny thing is happening they were created to be protectors of the populace but instead at times have been the complete reverse. They have done the complete opposite in safe guarding the public.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@AB Last warning.

@AB Last warning.
Trying to drag this thread off topic will result in a formal report to the admins.
We are not discussing the FDA or any particular drug or the role of science in modern society,
We are discussing the rationale of having the right to choose the time and method of one's death.
If you wish to discuss the role of science in the discovery and manufacture of drugs and vaccines start your own topic.

Sheldon's picture
"Well I would argue that its

The real problem is that you don't seem to know the difference between a full stop and comma, or there their and they're. Your paranoia is getting a little silly now. The FDA do precisely what you just said in another post we should be doing, they scrutinise scientific research into medicine before it can gain a licence for public use.

"Well I would argue that its because of science the methods the devices the drugs the chemicals is the real problem."

I've read that 3 times and it is still indecipherable gibberish. It is is abbreviated as it's for a start, what are you claiming is because of science? what methods and devices are you talking about and what drugs and chemicals and why are you claiming they're a problem? What evidence can you demonstrate to support this bizarre paranoia?

Sheldon's picture
Euthanasia has nothing

Euthanasia has nothing whatever to do with science. I don't believe in any gods, so the decision should be mine to make, and people like you should be content to make the decision for themselves, but not try and force others to do as your beliefs dictate. The arguments for euthanasia has nothing to do with science, it's an ethical question for medicine, and a moral question for the rest of us. Science is and always has been "under scrutiny" so I have no idea what you're talking about there.

They are is not abbreviated as there....ffs.

What will be next...I don't know what you mean sorry, you have not provided enough information.

Grinseed's picture
I'm not playing god. I am

I'm not playing god. I am being a humanist. You are the one playing at being god insisting others follow disputed immoral instructions from on high.
The scientific method is already self scutinising and tests all ideas to destruction unlike theism that trusts blindly to ancient superstition.
What will be next for science?
Perhaps cures for terminal illnesses if religion keeps its nose out of things.

chimp3's picture
I have been a nurse for 27

I have been a nurse for 27 years. I am not a fan of assisted suicide. I am a huge fan of hospice / palliative care.

If assisted suicide is a right, then does it mean others are required to provide this to you? If so, I will not be coerced into this practise.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
No it means you have the

No it means you have the right to request assistance and, if provided, they will not be prosecuted.
One also has the right to refuse assistance because of your own moral/ethical grounds. (That subjective morality again) Refusal is without penalty or need to provide a reason.

Victoria's legislation has that model enshrined in its pages.

bigbill's picture
Murdering a person male or

Murdering a person male or female is wrong it is playing god. Like chimp who stated that he is a nurse agrees with me on this particular subject. That`s because he supports life not death like you do.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
Thank you for staying on

Thank you for staying on topic.
Why do you not support the right of the individual to decide their own time and manner of death?

bigbill's picture
hia old man shouts: Well the

hia old man shouts: Well the reason why I don`t support An individual to decide their fate when sick is because we had no say that we would be born I believe in a personal God and in his written word he detests murder he believes in total justice and he is the way and the truth here. Again we should not be in the business deciding to take some ones life especially if there mentally incompetent.

chimp3's picture
AB! Do not make assumptions

AB! Do not make assumptions like that about me! I never said what you wrote, so, you are a liar! I am a fan of hospice! Which means I am a fan of administering morphine to terminally ill patients at the therapeutic dose necessary to keep them out of pain, anxiety, suffering. Even if this means hastening their death. I also know that extreme pain, agony, suffocation hastens ones death also. I consider this a world of difference to a massive suicidal overdose beyond what is needed for palliative measures. I also believe people have a right to end their own lives. My concern is when the state demands that Nurse\ Doctors provide assisted suicide against their personal ethics. I

Sheldon's picture
"Murdering a person male or

"Murdering a person male or female is wrong it is playing god. Like chimp who stated that he is a nurse agrees with me on this particular subject. That`s because he supports life not death like you do."

As opposed to telling everyone you know what god wants, and they must do as you say? The taking of human life can be an act of compassion, you are resorting to the worst kind of hyperbole and rhetoric, and seem incapable as usual of cogent reasoning and moral evaluation. You seem to think everything is "black or white" with no possibility of grey at all. I have seldom met anyone as blinkered and intransigent as your posts suggest you are.

"That`s because he supports life not death like you do."

More rhetoric and hyperbole, not wanting a person to suffer is an act of compassion and empathy, and recognising that people should be allowed to make end of life choices for themselves does not mean you are "supporting death". Unlike you who appear to support unimaginable suffering, and people being forced against their wishes to die without dignity or any quality of life, because you arrogantly believe that you know what god wants.

You seem utterly incapable of empathy or compassion. What does that say about your beliefs.


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