The End Goal of Humanity and the Universe

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Grinseed's picture
Grace Alone, you show very

Grace Alone, you show very little grace in deleting your original OP after so many responded to it. Please restore the original OP and then begin another thread with your latest question. I have little interest in engaging in discussion with you if you cannot be honest enough to maintain your original questions. I can not have faith in your declared interest to learn if you delete questions for which you do not like the answers. Restore the original OP please.

Sheldon's picture
"As an atheist (one who does

Grace Alone "As an atheist (one who does not believe in a God or gods), what, in your view, is the end goal of human history and the universe, and how does this end goal justify your existence?"

What evidence can you demonstrate that human history, or the universe, has any "end goal"? What do you mean by "justify my existence". In what sense does my existence need justifying?

The material physical universe exists as an objective fact, physical organic life exists as an objective fact if you are going to posit something more then you will have to demonstrate objective evidence for it, asking questions that amount to an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy won't validate your belief. This is called a god of the gaps argument, religious apologists often use these using argument from ignorance fallacies to try and reverse the burden of proof, as you have done here of course.

We've seen it used all too often to be taken in by it I'm afraid.

Sapporo's picture
Grace Alone: Hi Nyarlathotep,

Grace Alone: Hi Nyarlathotep,

Thanks for responding.

I am sorry that you believe we will all be worm food and nothing more. I believe in a greater purpose, and I am not wasting my life on fairy tales, but historical testimonies passed down through the ages and revealed in creation. I am living my life in light of the truth that I have a purpose and a designer who loves me.

I am glad that you want to exist, but can you justify your existence? Does it have real meaning outside of what you decide for yourself?

I am glad that reality is more important to you than fantasy; I would concur wholeheartedly. That is why I believe in God, because without God there is no such thing as reality or a reason for it.

Thank you

-Grace Alone

I said that the purpose I give myself involves maximizing pleasure while minimizing harm. Can you explain what you mean by "greater purpose"?

Sapporo's picture
Grace Alone: Hey Cognostic,

Grace Alone: Hey Cognostic,

I gave my reasoning for that assertion. You have yet to refute it. How is your existence not vain when death without an afterlife is soon approaching you, and the life that you lived was lived in a universe with no mind behind it? No mind, no purpose. It's chaos. It's vanity.

-Grace Alone

Unless you believe that god was created with a purpose, according to your reasoning, god has no real purpose. Do you believe that god was created with a purpose?

xenoview's picture
Grace alone

Grace alone

Since you have not given any objective evidence of your God exist, that leads me to believe you have none.
We don't know what the future of humanity holds, nor do we know what the future of universe is.

Kataclismic's picture
why believe in something that

why believe in something that renders your existence empty and vain?

Whoops! I think you misunderstood this group entirely. We DO NOT believe in something that renders our existence empty and vain, that's you.

liomem's picture
A meaning of life ?? Can you

A meaning of life ?? Can you ask yourself where is that come from ?? When you were a 4 to 6 or 7 years old - It depends on each one of us - You didn't have a purpose , You were enjoying the life simply without any caring about the question " WHY " !! ... You grow up now and you want to care about big things like Purposes and the bloody god gonna come back who called "Jesus "and Sure he gonna came with an oceans of blood .. Whatever .. My point of view as " Adonis " I think that the purpose is related to human awareness .. Our purposes begin when we are being aware of ourselves and our positions in life - maybe that's why kids do many things without any purpose - .. I'm kind of following a positive nothingness which is basically saying " Thing from nothing " and we going to be nothing, As what physicians said that the sun gonna explode and burn our planet after billions of years - you can wait Jesus until that time - .. And there is gonna be "Thermal death " to the universe that's what science showed to us .. Yeah that's the End of the universe If you are interesting .. But the End of humans No one sure about that .. Humans are Unpredictable - Cause they have a concision - .. And maybe If we gonna success to build a civilization that gonna let us leave this planet or the solar system before being destroyed .. But It seems we gonna be late to build this kind of civilization because religious people like you still with us in the same freaking planet and they're just making wars everywhere .. Plus all of the money that get spend on churches around the world !! It's unbelievable .. Richard Dawkins talked about that ! And I don't know maybe yeah we need wars to show the real face of religions .. Christianity after all of those years of Renaissance "Fundamentalism " still there in different places !! .. But the majority don't read their holy books and that's why they're fine ..My only problem with religion - I mean all of the religions - is that they give you an idea to " believe " that's mean " Don't think " you need to believe which is just an emotional thing and that's the heart of every religion .. It's clear in your question when you looking for purposes and any emotional thing that gonna satisfied you with what happen to the world and probably satisfied you with your parents cause that where the religion come from .. I'm sorry I can't go with religions at all .. I'm being anti religions .. I'm from middle east and I have nothing to say about the situation + you need to remember " The second cold war " that is happening in middle east still better than " The first cold war " that happened in Europe and there many reasons to explain that .. Finally religions aren't only for purposes so you can't play this game !! Religions are more social systems that divides the people .. Can you ask yourself Why being a white community kind of same to be a white Christian community or conservative community !! Same thing in middle east being a Saudi community is more a sunni/wahhabist community either with Iran community .. Jews community , Hindus ,etc .. Religion is going with the identity of communities and some of the individuals , The world is suffering now from this identities which Religion has a big role to do with it , That's how I see it .. Thank you ...

Cognostic's picture

NOW YOU ASSERT - As an atheist (one who does not believe in a God or gods), what, in your view, is the end goal of human history and the universe, and how does this end goal justify your existence?

1. As atheists who do not believe in god or gods - We are off to a half way decent start. I am an atheist and I do not believe in god or gods.

2. What in your view is the end goal of human history.... You understand that I must stop here. History is the study of past human lives through things like writing, structures, and possibly bones. History has no end goal. It's the past. We study history so that we can better understand ourselves, where we came from and how we got here. History is not the goal. The Goal is to study history for a better understanding of ourselves.

3. Then you tagged on "and the universe." Your sentence would actually read... "What is the end goal of the universe." That's a bit like asking what is the end goal of a rock. You appear to be ascribing animism to aspects of space, matter, and time that are unjustified. If you think the universe is alive and possessing a goal it is up to you to prove it and not us. So if the universe is alive and if it has a goal, it is up to you to tell us what it is and then justify your claim. I submit that if you can do this, you are by far the wisest and most intelligent person on this planet.

4. How does any of this Justify existence? Perhaps you do not understand the word "justify." You appear to be using it incorrectly or confusingly.

JUSTIFY: 1. show or prove to be right or reasonable. (Life is here, easily proved and completely reasonable so I will assume you do not mean this usage of the word.)

2. declare or make righteous in the sight of God.
I assume this is what you are actually shooting for. Ummmm... Atheist. A = without Theist = belief in god. We do not believe in your god and have no reason what so ever to justify ourselves to it. Until such time as you can prove your god exists, the idea of justifying anything to it is nonsense.


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