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Joshb's picture

So, if God did not create life, where did life come from?

I am assuming most of you believe in Evolution and I would like to hear your thoughts about what is Evolution and how it is possible/ evidence for it. I am no expert on the theory and want to learn more about it.

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CyberLN's picture
If you really want to learn

If you really want to learn about the subject, honestly want to do so, then your best bet is to go to your local library and get some books written by evolutionary biologists. To my knowledge, no one currently posting here at AR is a biologist.
And BTW, where life came from is NOT included in evolution.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
Abiogenesis and Evolution are

Abiogenesis and Evolution are entirely different subjects. Fuck off to a dictionary then ask dumb arse questions. Muppet.

boomer47's picture
Are you seriously going to

Are you seriously going to question evolution? This is established science.

I believe you don't know anything about evolution. I don't believe you are serious in your desire to learn . IF I'm mistaken go read some Darwin .All of his books are in the public domain .They can be obtained usually in pdf form, free, from The Internet Archive,;


If you want to quick version:

Wikipedia : read the whole article.

"Evolution is change in the heritable characteristics of biological populations over successive generations.[1][2] These characteristics are the expressions of genes that are passed on from parent to offspring during reproduction. Different characteristics tend to exist within any given population as a result of mutation, genetic recombination and other sources of genetic variation.[3] Evolution occurs when evolutionary processes such as natural selection (including sexual selection) and genetic drift act on this variation, resulting in certain characteristics becoming more common or rare within a population.[4] It is this process of evolution that has given rise to biodiversity at every level of biological organisation, including the levels of species, individual organisms and molecules.[5][6]

The scientific theory of evolution by natural selection was proposed independently by Charles Darwin and Alfred Russel Wallace in the mid-19th century and was set out in detail in Darwin's book On the Origin of Species (1859).[7] Evolution by natural selection was first demonstrated by the observation that more offspring are often produced than can possibly survive. This is followed by three observable facts about living organisms: 1.) traits vary among individuals with respect to their morphology, physiology and behaviour (phenotypic variation), 2.) different traits confer different rates of survival and reproduction (differential fitness) and 3.) traits can be passed from generation to generation (heritability of fitness).[8] Thus, in successive generations members of a population are more likely to be replaced by the progenies of parents with favourable characteristics that have enabled them to survive and reproduce in their respective environments. In the early 20th century, other competing ideas of evolution such as mutationism and orthogenesis were refuted as the modern synthesis reconciled Darwinian evolution with classical genetics, which established adaptive evolution as being caused by natural selection acting on Mendelian genetic variation.[9] "


. I'm not qualified to teach and have no patience with the disingenuous. Perhaps some of our members may be able and willing to teach you.

algebe's picture
@Josh: I am assuming most of

@Josh: I am assuming most of you believe in Evolution

Yes. I believe in evolution. Do you believe in gravity?

algebe's picture
@Josh So, if God did not

@Josh So, if God did not create life, where did life come from?

Even if we never discover the origin of life, and all the discoveries and theories about abiogenesis are found to be wrong, you'd still not be one step closer to proving that life was magically zapped into existence by an invisible sky-fairy. It's not a binary question between evolution and god. And by the way, evolution has nothing to do with abiogenesis.

Why ignore biology, genetics, and geology and look instead to the superstitious scribblings of a mob of bronze age bumpkins who thought the Earth was flat and the sky was a crystal dome?

Kids who might have grown up to discover the real source of life are instead being mentally crippled by idiots sneaking so-called "creation science" and anti-evolutionary horseshit into school science classes.

Nyarlathotep's picture
I'm predicting the number of

I'm predicting the number of false statements that will be made by the OP about the theory of evolution is going to be 4. Anyone want to bet (bragging rights, no money) on the over (more than 4), or the under (less than 4)?

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Nyar

@ Nyar

I am betting that , with this particular poster boy for christian ignorance, that we could give him a live demonstration of evolution and he would still come back with a "yeh,but"

I bet on over....what's the prize? A weekend at Hillsong? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQl4izxPeNU

Or two weekends dating Tin Man? Or

a fun packed week with Cog poo flinging?

Cognostic's picture
@Nyarlathotep: I just

@Nyarlathotep: I just finished writing a response and as I pushed the submit button, I thought I should have mentioned a warning to not bring up micro vs macro evolution. ONLY A FUCKING RETARD WOULD GO THERE. But to be honest, my brain does not go there and sometimes I forget how dense people can be.

Cognostic's picture
@Josh: Evolution /

@Josh: Evolution / Abiogenisis.

Right off the bat you are confusing two concepts. The origin of life with evolution. They are different.

We currently do not have a good idea of how life began on this planet. Abiogenisis is the top theory right now. Scientists have been able to form the elements of life, organic materials, from inorganic materials, in a lab. This, thus far, is the greatest clue we have for the origins of life. There are other competing theories; Transpermia - life on asteroids throughout the universe landed on our planet. Deep sea volcanic vents. Electric Spark, and more. The short answer is "NO ONE KNOWS" The best answer, where the evidence leads is Abiogenisis. The answer that does not answer anything is "Magical Flying God."

Evolution is what happens after life forms on the planet. In every step of the evolutionary process the offspring of the original living creature is a near replica of the parent. Evolutionary changes are extremely slow. A group of species that become isolated from one another can evolve into entirely different species. "Ring Species." A species is identified by their ability to procreate with one another. Evolution is the process by which different kinds of living organisms are thought to have developed and diversified from earlier forms during the history of the earth. Evolution is not goal directed. Evolution is not a process of development from simple to complex. It is a process of natural selection and survival of the fittest.

Survival of the fittest does not mean strongest. It means, those with the ability to adapt. It means those lucky enough not to be wiped out in a pandemic like the black plague. It could mean those who are quick enough to avoid being eaten as prey. There are two theories on why humans walk on two legs. One was to look out above the reeds and the other to keep their heads above the water while digging for clams. We have species of apes that engage in both of these behaviors today. Survival of the fittest means those who are best at surviving.

Natural selection has to do with changes in the genes over time. Giraffes with the longest necks could reach the food and survive. As a result, the breeding pairs had longer necks. Giraffes with shorter necks did not survive and the trait of having a longer neck perpetuated itself. Survival traits are enhanced through natural selection.

Cognostic's picture
WARNING: This is an atheist

WARNING: This is an atheist website and not a Biology website. Anyone responding to your post is doing so out of the kindness of their hearts. EVOLUTION has nothing at all, NOTHING, to do with Atheism.

If Evolution were completely wrong, 100% fallacious, a joke, it would do absolutely nothing to Atheism and it would not move your God one milometer closer to being an accepted hypothesis. The war on evolution by creationists is utterly and completely nonsensical.
1. Evolution does not explain, nor attempt to explain the creation of life. Evolution explains the "diversity of life."
2. Evolution has nothing to do with belief or non-belief in a God. Christians all over the world accept evolution and still believe in their Gods.

Joshb's picture
Ok I'll ask another question;

Ok I'll ask another question;

Where did humans come from? Is there any evidence that we came from apes?

BTW: I completely agree with evolution but find it hard to believe in "Macro" evolution (I know you all love that term)

LostLocke's picture
Humans are to apes what cats

Humans are to apes what cats are to felines or dogs are to canines.

If you mean, "Did humans evolve from monkeys?", then no, and no one but those unfamiliar with evolution claim that.

algebe's picture
Josh: find it hard to believe

Josh: find it hard to believe in "Macro" evolution

Me too. At least in the sense that creationists use the term when sneering about "crocoducks" and other straw man arguments. Tigers don't suddenly give birth to elephants or camels to crocodiles.

All evolution is micro. Change happens in tiny, incremental steps over eons of time. Every child is almost identical to its parents, but subtle differences accumulate over many generations. When populations are isolated from each other, such as by geological events or sea-level variations, each population continues to change gradually but in different directions. Eventually you have different species, like gorillas, chimps, and us.

I find this infinitely more fascinating and wonderful than a bronze age fable about an invisible sky-fairy wishing species into existence with magic spells.

Cognostic's picture
@Josh: Humans did not come

@Josh: Humans did not come from apes. Human beings are hominoids and 3 other species of ape are also hominoids. Modern apes and humans have two distinct evolutionary paths. There was a time when we shared a common ancestor. Apes then, are our closely related cousins.

Cognostic's picture
@Oh Fuck! I predicted you

@Oh Fuck! I predicted you were going to bring this shit up. THERE IS NO MICRO OR MACRO EVOLUTION. IT IS ALL JUST EVOLUTION. There is no point in time where a dinosaur gave birth to a chicken.

There is no "MACRO EVOLUTION" it does not exist. You have small changes over billions of years. This is enough to count for the variety of species on the planet.

LogicFTW's picture


Where did humans come from? Is there any evidence that we came from apes?

Do you really not already know the answer to this? Both the implied question and the literal question?

Our closest ancestors are other apes of the same family we are, we are homo sapiens, and a chimp is a chimp both part of the ape family. We can simply look at dna profiles and this becomes plainly obvious. Which other animals that are obviously not human, but shares the most traits, appearance and otherwise to humans? And this is the dumbed down version, beyond this obvious stuff, there is so much more.

We would have "closer" cousins to us then chimps, bonobos etc, but my understanding is, homo sapiens basically drove our closest cousins to extinction long long ago 100's of thousands of years ago.

boomer47's picture
@ Josh

@ Josh

Where did humans come from? Is there any evidence that we came from apes?

Oh for fuck sake! PLEASE DO SOME READING!

Human beings ARE apes . We are 'primates', which is a kind of ape.

Sheldon's picture


2 more creationist cliches.

There is enough information on the talkorigins site to keep you occupied for years. Start with the basics. It also lists many of the false claims and questions creationists use, and properly refutes them.


1. Humans both evolved from, and still are apes. The term apes is the taxonomy used for a group of different species.
2. Macro evolution is the same as micro evolution, but on a longer timescale. It is defined as evolution causing speciation, which is the evolution of a separate species that can no longer procreate with the original species. Scientists have observed this in a laboratory, using species of fruit flies, that have an extremely accelerated reproductive rate.

There is no barrier to change on a macro level, so if you accept that species change overtime (micro) then its absurd to imagine an invisible barrier to speciation (macro), when those changes add up to speciation. All the evidence establishes this beyond any reasonable doubt.

Only creationists even try to deny it.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Josh - Is there any evidence

Josh - Is there any evidence that we came from apes?

You mean besides the fact that humans ARE apes?

Tin-Man's picture
Re: OP

Re: OP

(Before reading any other responses.)

Ummm... Hey, Josh, the first glaring mistake you made is asking how Evolution could be responsible for the beginning of life. No doubt others have already mentioned this to you, but Evolution and the beginning of life are two completely different studies. Might want to do youself a bit of research before asking ridiculous questions like that. Google is a wonderful thing. Also, believe it or not, there are actually Evolution chat sites and Abiogenisis chat sites where EXPERTS in those fields have discussions about those very topics. (Who'd-a-thunk-it?)

Okay, now to go see the other replies. Should be fun.

Sheldon's picture


1. Evolution evidences and explains the origin of species, it has nothing to do with the origin of life.
2. No one can demonstrate any objective evidence for any deity, thus I disbelieve the claim.
3. Biblical creationism is risible fantasy, that gets the most basic scientific facts wrong, demonstrates no evidence whatsoever, and offers no explanatory power, thus I disbelieve it.
4 argumentum ad ignorantiam is a known common logical fallacy, you are using here by suggesting having no explanation for the origin of life validates your completely unevidenced belief it was created by a deity using unexplained magic.
5. You're also using a false dichotomy fallacy, as we're not limited to two choices, though of course one of the choices you offer is nothing to do with the origins of life, and simply indicates a shocking ignorance of the most basic understanding of evolution. A cliched creationist argument that is frankly embarrassing.

Evolution is a scientific fact evidenced by the scientific theory of evolution, which has been evidenced beyond any reasonable doubt, all the global scientific evidence from over 160 years of scientific study supports it. It's not a question of believing it, it would be comparable to denying the rotundity of the earth to deny it.

Lastly, my atheism has nothing to do with evolution, even though it drives a bus through creationist myths. The simple fact there is no objective evidence for any deity is sufficient reason for me to withhold belief. Now of course, in the incredibly unlikely event evolution were entirely falsified tomorrow, it would NOT evidence creationism at all, or any deity and I would remain an atheist.

David Killens's picture
Josh, there is so much

Josh, there is so much evidence for evolution it is not even debatable in scientific circles. Beside the fossil record, there are other disciplines such as genetics that dovetail neatly into evolution. We share 98.7% of the same DNA as chimpanzees and bonobos.

There is a massive amount of information about evolution on the internet, all you need to do is Google, and you can spend years reading on the subject. Or to make life simpler for you, I suggest you visit Talk Origins.


And to head off the next obtuse question, species do not replace each other, evolution is not a ladder, but a very branched tree. Most of those branches turn into dead ends, over 99% of all the species that have existed are now extinct.

The dumbest question a theist can ask is "but if there are humans why didn't the apes disappear?" If there are North Americans, why didn't the Europeans disappear?

We humans are not "special", the only trait that separates us from other species is our developed brain. But we can not jump as high as a kangaroo, we can not run as fast as a cheetah, we are not as strong as a gorilla, we can not dive as deep as a sperm whale. And our testicles are not as large as the chimpanzee.

Yea Cognostic and chimp, I see you sitting over there gloating.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ David Killens

@ David Killens

"Yea Cognostic and chimp, I see you sitting over there gloating"

They are not 'gloating' mate....they are engaged in mutual "admiration" the sort of thing English public (i.e Private) schools excel at.... the end product of that evolutionary dead end is Boris Johnson...

chimp3's picture
@ David Killens / Old man

@ David Killens / Old man shouts:

"Yea Cognostic and chimp, I see you sitting over there gloating"

"They are not 'gloating' mate....they are engaged in mutual "admiration" the sort of thing English public (i.e Private) schools excel at.... the end product of that evolutionary dead end is Boris Johnson..."

Don't forget about the baculums!

David Killens's picture
"Don't forget about the

"Don't forget about the baculums!"

Of course not, why do you think us humans call it a "boner"?

Sheesh, just because the total mass of his testes is more than his brain ... sheesh.

MTheory's picture


The link below is from The Smithsonian Natural History Museum


National Geographic Documentary: The Man who fathered us all. Scientific Adam


Sheldon's picture
So we have so far...

So we have so far...

1. Evolution wrongly conflated with abiogenesis.
2. Humans can't have evolved from apes, even though we are apes.
3. An invisible unevidenced and unexplained barrier between micro and macro evolution, that defies all the scientific evidence.

So 3 creationist howlers on the first page, and we can still look forward to "it's not a law, just a theory" and "how come only beneficial mutations survive".

Cognostic's picture
@Sheldon! AWWWW fuck! I

@Sheldon! AWWWW fuck! I forgot about the ole "It's just a theory" ploy. Good Call! Here it commmmmmeeeessss! So damn predictable.

Simon Moon's picture


"Ok I'll ask another question;

Where did humans come from? Is there any evidence that we came from apes?"

We ARE STILL apes.

And let me add, we did not come from modern apes, we and other modern apes, descended from an earlier ape (or ape like) common ancestor.

But, yes, there is massive evidence that humans evolved from earlier species of apes.

Chromosome 2 in humans, which is a head to head fusion of 2 chromosomes in other apes, on its own, is enough to confirm common ancestry.

Vitamin C pseudogene deactivation in humans is yet another piece of evidence. All other primates have the ability to create their own vitamin C, but humans do not. Yet, we have the identical chromosomal structure for vitamin C production as all the other apes, but part of the process has been interrupted by the deactivation of the GULO gene in humans.

I can list so much more evidence for evolution.

By the way, Francis Collins PHd, an Evangelical Christian, and ex head of the Human Genome Project, says there is enough evidence to confirm common ancestry between humans and other apes using genetica alone, without even needing all the other evidence in other fields.

But what does evolution have to do with atheism? Even if evolution was proven wrong tomorrow, that would NOT provide one shred of evidence that a god exists.

Simon Moon's picture


You missed, "if humans evolved from apes, why are there still apes".


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