Genesis Creation vs. Darwin's Macroevolution Myth

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Jeff Vella Leone's picture
maybe you tried to edit, I

maybe you tried to edit, I don't have a clue but it happened to me too.

yea don't argue if you can avoid it.

doubleAtheist's picture
Would you say god is alive?

Would you say god is alive? If so who created him, you say all life needs a pre-exsisting life to create it, maybe hold your god to the same logic?

Not knowing does not mean say god did it, it means we need to get to work and find it out..

Sir Random's picture
The problem is that a true,

The problem is that a true, devote theist has a very low chance of doing this, though there are some exceptions. Most, if not all, religions "God figure(s)" are what is known as God or gods of the gaps. This means that almost the entire framework was built off of taking things that at the time we had no knowledge about, and attributing those things to "God".

Dave Matson's picture
Alter2Ego,

Alter2Ego,

Having now reviewed your first post in which you set down three questions, I now have a few comments:

1) Plants and animals are not uniquely different in the sense that you might have expected if they were created from scratch. They share a great many odd traits that, having little to do with useful "design," betray an evolutionary history.

2) Citing Jehovah is not an explanation for the diversity of life. Rather, it is a story. Here, "story" does not necessarily mean false. It means a casual explanation of some event that is not particularly concerned with documentation and evidence. The Aztecs "explained" that their sun-god needed blood sacrifice to keep up his strength. That's a story, not an explanation. A real explanation is a credible model based on demonstrable facts and tight reasoning.

3) The scientific evidence for evolution is overwhelming! Moreover, Darwinian evolution is not concerned with how life arrived; it is concerned with how it diversified from primitive cells. How those cells got there is the subject of abiogenesis, a legitimate science that has made tremendous progress since Stanley Miller's experiments in the 1950s. That you believe that Darwinian evolution (the name I shall use for the modern version of biological evolution by way of natural selection) is chained to abiogenesis indicates that you received a poor education in the biological sciences. Biological evolution, should you ever study the subject, is all about speciation--NOT about how life originated! You need to get your basic facts straight.

Question #1 Reply: You claim that there is no evidence in the fossil record to support evolution. Actually, the fossil record is LOADED with fossil evidence for macroevolution! Let me give you some primers on evolution which will fill in the basics that you seem to be ignorant of: Why Evolution is True - Jerry A. Coyne, and Undeniable - Bill Nye (the science guy). For a serious treatment of fossil evidence, also written for the layman, definitely read Dr. Donald Prothero's book "Evolution - What the Fossils Say and Why it Matters." He is an internationally recognized geologist who knows his way around the fossil record by personal experience.

Question #2 Reply: You ask why apes are still around. Your question is based on a gross misunderstanding of evolution. Nothing about Darwinian evolution requires the extinction of prior forms! Furthermore, modern apes have as much evolution under their belts as humanity. They and humanity split off from a common, ape-like ancestor and went their separate ways. Most of the branches of the "evolutionary bush" eventually get pruned by extinction which may give the impression to the poorly informed that past forms must go extinct.

Question #3 Reply: You ask how the common ancestor came to life so that evolution could proceed. There are many suggestive clues and some plausible scenarios, but this complicated question (both historical and scientific) has not yet been solved. The only honest answer is that we do not presently know, and by "we" I include yourself as well! (Religious people have stories, not answers.) Abiogenesis is a new and difficult science. Give it some time! Why the demand for instant answers? Ask, instead, how it is that scientific evidence clearly traces life back to primitive cells--and then nothing! That certainly doesn't fit the custom-created creatures that you envision. If God had no hand in all the various stages of evolution, what makes you think he had a hand in the jump between non-life and life? You imagine a great gulf, which likely accounts for your skepticism, but the actual boundary is very fuzzy.

As a final note on a different subject, I would like to point out that the name Jehovah is a relatively modern invention! Frank Zindler put it this way:

"The word adonai was used by the Jews as a substitute for the forbidden sacred name YHWH (pronounced Yahweh). Sometimes, instead of pronouncing adonai instead of Yahweh, the vowels of adonai were mixed with the consonants of Yahweh and, after being dragged through Latin, turned into the pseudo-name Jehovah." (The U.F.O. of Bethlehem - Frank Zindler, p.8)

Serious scholars have long been aware of this fact, which finds its only significant opposition within the "Jehovah's Witnesses." Here is a quote from Dr. Rainey:

"The vocalized form one finds in the Hebrew Bible is usually Y'howah, from which we get in English the form Jehovah. Y'howah/Jehovah is nothing but an artificial ghost word; it was never used in antiquity. The synagogue reader saw Y'howah in his text and read it adonai. (Anson F. Rainey, Professor of Ancient Near Eastern Cultures and Semitic Linguistics, Tel Aviv University; Bible Archaeology Review: September/October 1994. (See the article for the actual pronunciation marks.)

GodIsReal360's picture
Well then I just have to say

Well then I just have to say that this argument is stupid.
Period

GodIsReal360's picture
Oh and GreenSnake.... I have.

Oh and GreenSnake.... I have. Trust me there's some pretty convincing facts out there but.......not straight facts though, they're not saying the entire truth

Dave Matson's picture
Christianity Speaker: You

Christianity Speaker: You have what? What facts are not straight and not saying the truth? I don't memorize my posts, so it would be helpful if you began with a reference. I'm not sure what you are even talking about!

mykcob4's picture
Answer to question #1http:/

Answer to question #1
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/
Answer to question #2
The world and nature fulfill "roles". Meaning that everything fills a niche. "Survival of the fittest" doesn't mean That a species automatically goes extinct because something else evolves. Those species have to be in direct competition in someway for one species to cause the other to go extinct.
As large dinosaurs suffered mass extinction, the survivors evolved to fill those open niches.
As chimps and other apes were not and are not in direct competition with humans it stands to reason that they can coexist. Onions came from mustard plants but both still exist. etc!
Answer to question #3
Something can come from nothing refer to:
http://bigthink.com/dr-kakus-universe/can-a-universe-create-itself-out-o...

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