How I Got Here

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HumbleThinker's picture
Although I appreciate your

Although I appreciate your “response”, there is nothing here of substance, so we will move on.

dogalmighty's picture
@HumbleTinkler

@HumbleTinkler

Sidestep...based in logic however...hmmmm...

Do you believe that faith is a good reason to believe in your god?

HumbleThinker's picture
No logic found within your

No logic found within your response, as you suggest. But if I really need to defend myself I will stop at you first line in your previous post.

You suggest that the mere number of ‘ideas’ of God necessitates a disblief. This is utterly not true. Therefore, I discredit anything else you say in that post.

dogalmighty's picture
Sidestep...

@BumbleThinker

Sidestep...

"You suggest that the mere number of ‘ideas’ of God necessitates a disblief. This is utterly not true. Therefore, I discredit anything else you say in that post."

No. I suggest the different churches, have different gods...and more than one god dispels belief of gods.

Something wrong with answering the last question?

Here, I'll repost it for you:

Do you believe that faith is a good reason to believe in your god?

HumbleThinker's picture
Not sidestepping. Don’t even

Not sidestepping. Don’t even know what it means.

Yes, I believe faith is important to believing in God. Why? Because I base my entire worldview on a concept which is clearly difficult to understand. I do not claim to have “evidence” as you would like. I only claim that i believe what was written in the Gospels to be true reflection on how we ought to live. I don’t claim the Bible outlines every single thing, and we must therefore believe the rest on faith. It would, in fact, be a contradiction of my belief to believe I know everything.

dogalmighty's picture
@GrumbleStinkler

@GrumbleStinkler

OK...I'm done. Thanks. :)

Sorry bout the hijack PJ, and welcome.

HumbleThinker's picture
Walking away cause you have

Walking away cause you have nothing to add? Everything you said here was inaccurate, ad hominem, and logiscally false. Anything else you would like to add to the coffin?

Seems the only thing you’re good at is making fun of my username....

dogalmighty's picture
When did you notice? Be

@Numballwagler

When did you notice? Be honest.

xenoview's picture
Welcome to AR PJ!

Welcome to AR PJ!

watchman's picture
@HumbleThinker ….

@HumbleThinker ….

Just a couple of points from your posts.

"No major religion could provide the buildings and services necessary without cash."
"A church asking for donations, however, is a different animal."

…. and yet I'm sure I remember seeing an old man ,in Rome (the successor to the fisherman a follower of the carpenters son)..... wearing golden robes , sitting in a gilded throne , in a marble hall ,surrounded by many priceless works of art ,paintings and statuary...… hectoring the world on the need to act against poverty. Completely oblivious to the possibility of helping the poor by selling something and giving the money to the needy.

then...

"Different churches have different answers,"

Really ? ……
but surely there was , in your view ,only one Christ ,the one Son of one God , who lived one narrative. Thus on the day after the Tomb was supposedly found empty their was one faith.....

How is it then that there are now something in excess 33,830 Christian denominations...… and of course ,each and every one of them is the one true religion.

"Maybe the issue is you just haven’t found the right answer?"
Each and every one of the 33,830 has its own "right answer.

Or maybe , just maybe …. religion (yours or any other ) provides no real answers.

HumbleThinker's picture
I appreciate your response

I appreciate your response but sdisagree with 100% of it. (I can’t copy/paste your quotes from my mobile but I will do my best in responding. )

I don’t know what you mean by your first paragraph. Please elaborate.

2. Yes. Of course I believe only one church has the answer. Counting the number of avialable churches does not necessitate that none of them are correct. My point was that the Op has not been introduced to Orthod Christianity. Ours is the best example of how to worship as Christ did. Anyone can say what they want about being true Christians. You won’t Convince me that the Westborough Baptist Church practice true Christianity. My point was you need to explore all of the religions to find the true one. The fallacy atheists commonly make is that if 999 out of 1000 religions don’t make sense, then all religions are wrong.

dogalmighty's picture
@HumbleStinker

@HumbleStinker

#2...ummm no. As illogical as pascal's wager is( "how not to be wrong" https://www.facebook.com/JordanEllenberg/?hc_location=ufi ), and with the amount of times apologists still attempt to use it, I could use it now to show you that only one can be correct. But, that would be wrong. However, mathematically, the actual fact is, that because so many gods are claimed, as a predictor, this works against the likeliness of a god altogether. Without knowing, your bias shines by ignoring the possibility of no god. That is your failure in reason. I have lost faith in your ability to reason...as I have with most theist's.

HumbleThinker's picture
I am new to this concept.

I am new to this concept. Please elaborate. Exactly how does the existence of 1000 negate the existance of 1? Please provide empirical evidence.

dogalmighty's picture
I gave you a book name, and

@HumbleThinker

I already gave you a book name, and author homepage...go nuts.

Edit: Don't misquote me. I never used the word negate. I used the word likeliness, not negate. Math of probability...you know, 0 impossibility, 1 certainty.

HumbleThinker's picture
Okay, so we agree then, that

Okay, so we agree then, that having so many denominations makes it difficult to find the right one. So what’s the discussion here?

Thanks for the book recommendatio, btw, I might actually be interested in reading it.

dogalmighty's picture
@HumbleThinker

@HumbleThinker

Reason, was the discussion. Is it reasonable to believe in a god, via faith or not. This is what helped Pirate Jack, make a choice to become atheist.

David Killens's picture
But HumbleThinker, members of

But HumbleThinker, members of the Westborough are equally convinced that their interpretation of the bible is the "right" one.

Since the difference is basically what you interpret and faith, there is no definitive method in distinguishing which one is the right one. I definitely do not wish to offend you, but in my opinion, Westborough follows the bible as it was written.

So where do we go from here, how can we make a sane and adult conclusion?

HumbleThinker's picture
@David

@David

No offense taken. It is a good quesition and should be addressed. As ironic as it might sound, you have to apply critical thinking to the teachings of the church and decide if it makes sense. (I’m sure this will get a good laugh)

David Killens's picture
Humble Thinker, almost every

Humble Thinker, almost every atheist left religion because they applied critical thinking to the holy book and religion. I am sure you have seen the many discussions pointing out inaccuracies, contradictions, and evil stated in the bible. Critical thinking tells me that this book is not one to be accepted or believed.

When push comes to shove, when a theist must defend their choice, it comes down to faith. And faith is not a pathway to the truth. I could "believe" in Thor, just because of faith.

I have no problem if people have faith and follow religion, but my opposition comes from them attempting to force their religion on me and push religious concepts into politics and laws.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n56u6omxeOs

CyberLN's picture
HT, you are sure it will get

HT, you are sure it will get a good laugh? I’m not laughing about it. In a way, I think you’re right. There are many flavors of religion that it is easy for most folks to wave away after reviewing with a critical eye. Scientology and Mormonism come to mind. Of course, the adherents of those would most certainly disagree. But that’s probably the case for all flavors, eh? What is dismissible to one is often not to another...despite both claiming to employ critical thinking.

I think that it the case for big foot, ghosts, alien visitation, and a number of other things.

I guess I am just suspect of the claim of a ‘truth’ of something that cannot be unquestionably demonstrated. I’m not perfectly consistent with that skepticism, though, none of us is. What I do try to employ consistently is owning whether I think something is true based primarily on my wishes. And more than that, as tough as it can be, admitting when wishing it true is the case.

HT, personally, I don’t really care if you have any gods. I don’t think having a god in and of itself makes someone bad or stupid. After all, there are stupid and bad people who identify as atheist too. No, the reason I am vocal about being atheist is because I am adamantly against it being public vs private. I want religion and gods out of government, off my body, banned from public institutions, and not provided any special status (think taxes).

Up To My Neck's picture
I appreciate the welcome. I

I appreciate the welcome. I have no problem with people worshipping whatever they want. It shouldn’t be part of public schools, or government. But my hate runs deep. Instead of spending millions on new mega churches, feed the homeless, support medical research, do something to help! Quit worrying about gay marriage and useless shit! I have been preached down to by people who are as hypocritical as you could possibly be. To me, the great power over us all is nature. Nature, through natural disasters, evolution of species, and the constant changing world we live in has ALWAYS been the authority. No god necessary.

David Killens's picture
Pirate Jack, if I was to

Pirate Jack, if I was to label myself, it would as "a searcher for truth". And for that I discard urban legends, peer pressure, and folklore, and apply logic and critical thinking to empirical evidence. I live in the real world, not one that includes fantasy.

dogalmighty's picture
@PJ

@PJ

"I appreciate the welcome. I have no problem with people worshipping whatever they want. It shouldn’t be part of public schools, or government. But my hate runs deep. Instead of spending millions on new mega churches, feed the homeless, support medical research, do something to help! Quit worrying about gay marriage and useless shit! I have been preached down to by people who are as hypocritical as you could possibly be. To me, the great power over us all is nature. Nature, through natural disasters, evolution of species, and the constant changing world we live in has ALWAYS been the authority. No god necessary."

Here here. Hearty agreeance.

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