I'm a Christian on the Verge of Losing the Faith

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Cognostic's picture
WLC: Look at what he does.

WLC: Look at what he does. He gets up on stage and argues for an amorphous god that exists beyond time and space. (IS THAT THE GOD OF THE BIBLE?) WLC knows that the God of the Christian bible is indefensible. Christians know their God is a evil piece of shit. That's why the God of the bible is never the God being defended in Debates. The murdering, butchering God of the bible is still getting a pass in most academic debates. NO ONE ARGUES FOR THE GOD OF THE BIBLE AS THE CREATOR NO ONE.

Rohan M.'s picture
Which begs the question: how

Which begs the question: how does WLC know that such a thing exists? And if it does exist, then what does it exist in? And how was it able to create our universe if our universe would be completely independent from whatever other reality this amorphous god would have existed in?

helloworld's picture
Which is why liberal

Which is why liberal Christianity is a thing. People who believe the arguments for God work, but can't seem to fit it into the Bible simply dispose of a literal Bible.

Sky Pilot's picture
Hello World,

Hello World,

Why do modern intelligent people believe in ancient ethnocentric Middle Eastern Jewish and Arabian religious fairy tales unless they have a financial stake in them?

Rohan M.'s picture
And you will find that their

And you will find that their views are actually shockingly similar to those of conservative Christians. Here is a Liberal Christian bingo sheet:

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Cognostic's picture
Education is Kryptonite to

Education is Kryptonite to Religion. When you get those nagging thoughts, ask questions and research the hell out of them. The only reason they are clinging on is because you have accepted them on "faith." (Belief without evidence). Theist assertions do not stand up to a rational mind.

Meepwned's picture
Wow, this thread has alot of

Wow, this thread has alot of helpful info.

I was indoctrinated into the pentacostal denomination of Christianity at an early age. I was somewhat of a skeptic, I loved debunking woo that wasn't tied to religion.

I've been somewhat of a late bloomer to social behavior and staving off peer pressure (I wasn't affected much early on because I isolated myself).

So, it was after doing a year of college, that I realised I was being duped. I had been peer pressured to go to college when I wasn't ready, so I dropped out. After that I became more and more skeptical of all forms of peer pressure.

I was watching some Youtube videos debunking ancient aliens, the show, when a debate on the existence of god was recommended to me. I watched it, but didn't think much about it, until I started doubting my religion.

Instead of looking into atheism (I didn't know what it really was at this point), I started on a quest to find a religion that better fit my morals. I looked at Buddhism, Jainism, Islam, Judaism, other denominations of Christianity, Satanist, Wicca, and many more.

I found all unsatisfactory, except one, Wicca. After a few months of deeper study into Wicca, I couldn't believe it. I had found it bullshit too. I had stopped going to church during my Wicca phase. I then offset my heavy gaming with occasional Youtube videos.

One day Youtube, damn Youtube, recommended me to watch Bill Nye debate Ken Ham. I realised that I thought alot like Bill Nye. I then watched more and more debates until I had a decent grasp of atheism, but that wasn't enough, so I poured over every atheist resource I could find.

This process lasted for 3 years, culminating into my final rejection of all woo, that I can identify. I'm now a damned heathen, agnostic atheist, skeptic, antitheist, humanist, and freethinker.

P.S. At no point during my deconversion did I have a fear of hell. That was something I had subconsciously dealt with years before.

Cognostic's picture
Well, you landed in the right

Well, you landed in the right place. Welcome!
Hell is like any other WooWoo Christian assertion. It does not even exist until the modern Christians get hold of it. Like any of the Christian assertions, the more you know about it the less of a grip it will have. Ancient Jews did not even believe in hell. The hell most of us know of today is Completely a Christian Invention.

Sky Pilot's picture
Cognostic,

Cognostic,

Actually the bibilcal hell isn't that bad. Everyone gets out on Judgment Day. And just because a person spent time in hell it doesn't prevent him from getting into the golden cube if he passes the works requirement. After Jdgment Day hell and death are tossed into the lake of fire along with all who don't get into the golden cube. So the good news is that the biblical hell is temporary.

It seems that people are always confusing their hells. Most people are actually thinking about the Islamic hell instead of the biblical hell. The Islamic hell is permanent. And it is really awful. Most of the people there are women. The biblcal hell is temporary.

arakish's picture
Diotrephes: "And just because

Diotrephes: "And just because a person spent time in hell it doesn't prevent him from getting into the golden cube if he passes the works requirement."

And where is this at? I don't remembering reading this.

rmfr

EDIT: Revelation 20:15 – If anyone was not found written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:13 – They were judged, each one according to his works.

Rev 20:13 does not say anything about a "get out hell free card." Just that everyone is judged by their works. It is the Book of Life that gets you into Heaven. Go back and read your Bible.

rmfr

Sky Pilot's picture
arakish,

arakish,

Stop being a heretic!. In Revelation 20:13 it plainly says that the sea, death, and hell will give up the dead who were in them and that they will be judged according to their works. If they don't pass the test they get tossed into the lake of fire. So you can be in the sea, in death, or in hell and you will get resurrected for your final job interview on Judgment Day. If you pass you get to sing Jealous's praises for eternity.

And in Revelation 20:14-15 death & hell are tossed nto the lake of fire along with everyone who failed the works test. They don't get sent back to hell.

Revelation 20:13-15 (KJV) =
"13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation20:13-15&version=...

arakish's picture
Diotrephes: "In Revelation 20

Diotrephes: "In Revelation 20:13 it plainly says that the sea, death, and hell will give up the dead who were in them and that they will be judged according to their works. If they don't pass the test they get tossed into the lake of fire."

Re-read your asinine remark (bold). And where does it say in the verses if they pass they get into Heaven? I thought I told you to read the Bible.

Revelation 21:27 – There will in no way enter into it anything profane, or one who causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.

Read the Bible. And no, I ain't gonna visit that stupid bullshit biblegateway.com site.

I thought you were an atheist. I now see I was wrong in that assumption. You are a closet theist posing as an atheist. And like all theists, you also seem to fit this meme:

Scientists read lots of books and still feel they have a lot to learn.
Religious people barely read one book and fell they know everything.

rmfr

Sky Pilot's picture
arakish,

arakish,

We are discussing the intellectual truth of the fairy tale. It plainly says that everyone, whether in the sea, death, or in hell, will be resurrected on Judgment Day. And when that happens people will be judged by their works. So how will they be judged? The Book of Life will be opened and if their name is on the list that means that the works they did while alive were sufficient for them to get into the golden cube called New Jerusalem.

Now a careful reading of the fairy tale doesn't really say that Gentiles will get into the golden cube. The Jesus character had told his Apostles that they would sit on thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel. The golden cube is called "New Jerusalem".. That indicates that it is not Gentile friendly. And it has twelve gates, one for each of the tribes. So why do Gentiles think that they will be able to get in?

The whole thing is just a silly ancient Middle Eastern Jewish religious fairy tale. The problem is that billions of people believe it without any real reason. And as a result they base their lives and political decisions on it. Even the Bible says that people shouldn't believe those fairy tales.

I provided the link to the Biblegateway site because different Bibles phrase the ideas differently.

Here is an idea. While I enjoy reading everyone's comments if my comments piss you off then stop reading them.

As it says in Job 13:1-2 (NKV) = “Behold, my eye has seen all this,
My ear has heard and understood it.
2 What you know, I also know;
I am not inferior to you."

arakish's picture
@ Diotrephes

@ Diotrephes

Revelation 21:27 – There will in no way enter into it anything profane, or one who causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.

I guess you only read what you want to read. Notice the operative word in bold within the italics text. ONLY those written in the Lamb's Book of Life.

Yes, all shall be judged by their works, but it is not their works that get them into Heaven.

Learn to read everything instead of cherry-picking.

And the only reason I read your posts is because you listed yourself as atheist, but are showing theistic tendencies in your posts. When you are wrong, I am going to call you out. Because such atheists gives us a bad name.

rmfr

Sky Pilot's picture
arakish,

arakish,

Think about it.

You are at Judgment Day. What does that mean? It means that your life is being evaluated to see if you get into the golden cub or tossed into the lake of fire.

What criteria is being used? You are being judged by your works.

What happens as a consequence of that? You get your name written in the Book of Life if your works have been good enough.

What happens next? You either get a ticket to the golden cube or your ass is thrown into the lake of fire.

Your name is not written into the Book of Life until you get judged on Judgment Day.

The Islamic Judgment is almost identical except if you pass you get a large pearl shell paradise (if you are a guy) or you get tossed into hell.

It really is that simple.

BTW, in the biblical fairy tale people don't really go to heaven. They end up in a 1,500 mile side gaudy bejeweled golden cube behind a high wall on a waterless planet that doesn't have any darkness. The main activity is singing Jealous's praises 24/7/365 with a herd of weird creatures for eternity. You get a piece of fruit 12 times a year and some drinking water from Jealous's throne, probably his piss. The lake of fire is a much better deal.

arakish's picture
Diotrephes,

Diotrephes,

I quit. But I am NOT admitting you are correct. What I am admitting is that your brain works completely backwards making you a Religious Absolutist. You are NOT an atheist.

And here is an example. You have been here three years or more. I have not been here for even ten months. Yet, I have over the twice the number of "Agrees" as you have. Hmm...

rmfr

Cognostic's picture
I'd love to see the verse in

I'd love to see the verse in the New Testament supporting that? I could win ten bucks off a co-worker with that knowledge. I already took him for 20 dollars. "You have to hate your family to follow Jesus" and --- I forgot ==== Oh Yea, "Belief in Jesus is not the only way to get to heaven." There is another way clearly mentioned in the bible.

Tin-Man's picture
@Meepwned Re: "I'm now a

@Meepwned Re: "I'm now a damned heathen, agnostic atheist, skeptic, antitheist, humanist, and freethinker."

Howdy! Great having you aboard the good ship AR. You may have noticed already that most of the crew here is rather salty. And from the looks of it you seem like you will fit in nicely with the rest of us damned heathens... *chuckle*... Come on in and make yourself at home. Much fun to be had. Enjoy.

Meepwned's picture
@ Tin-Man Where is the salt

@ Tin-Man Where is the salt mines? I could use a bit more.

Tin-Man's picture
@Meep Re: "Where is the

@Meep Re: "Where is the salt mines? I could use a bit more."

Well, we don't use any salt mines. Basically, we just take turns hosing each other down with sea water a couple of times a week. Then we stand out in the sun and let it dry. Tends to leave a light, white crusty film over the body. Most of us wear a bathing suit during this activity. Sadly, though, Cog always insists on being butt-ass naked. The rest of us usually draw straws to determine who has to hose him down. If you are the new guy to the group, though, you automatically get the duty the first time. On the plus side, though, it is definitely good incentive to recruit others to the club.

Cognostic's picture
Where the fuck is my salt

Where the fuck is my salt water??? I have been standing here butt ass naked for 30 minutes.

Tin-Man's picture
@Cog

@Cog

We're still drawing straws. And there have been several incidents of some members cheating during the drawing. (I may or may not have been one of those members.) Get comfy. This might take awhile.

Edit to add: Well hell. Just dawned on me Meep is the new guy, so the duty automatically fall to him.... *looking around*.... Now, where is that guy?.... *calling out to forum*.... Hey! Anybody seen Meep?!? He's got some hosing to do!... *looking back toward Cog*... What the fu-.... STOP playing with that thing!... *turning head away quickly*...

Bad Santa's picture
Hi Meep, and welcome!

Hi Meep, and welcome!

You said:

Where is the salt mines? I could use a bit more

Forget salt mines, wait till Tin-Man starts handing out his spiked eggnog... that's when the party starts and we're all heading to the warm pool... (Arakish is in charge of the temperature so be warned..)

Rohan M.'s picture
Not to mention that the

Not to mention that the theists will often try to troll us by draining it at random intervals for no reason in particular. :)

Meepwned's picture
*Sprays Cog'* Enjoy the salt!

*Sprays Cog'* Enjoy the salt!

Cognostic's picture
Thanks! Now I'm off to the

Thanks! Now I'm off to the debates. Rat Spit is leading at the moment.

Rohan M.'s picture
Oh yeah... that guy and his

Oh yeah... that guy and his preposterous assertion that every last one of our thoughts are some cosmic wizard pulling the strings, conveniently ignoring the fact that our thoughts are, in fact, influenced by our surroundings and our views and opinions based on what we have experienced throughout our lifetimes...

And I quote Rat:

Prove that the inner voices inside your head are really you.

Uggh... I am deeply worried about that guy’s mental stability... does he really think that there any voices in his head other than just his train of thought? I hope not. :/

Cognostic's picture
Diotrephes:

Diotrephes:

Still waiting for that verse that tells us hell is not eternal and that once you are there you get out after a while..... It's no biblical teaching I have ever heard of or recall.

I get the "works" issue - this is the whole Catholic perspective and one of the big reasons the protestants broke away. (Selling Indulgences etc....) Christians, as opposed to Catholics, generally do not buy into the whole "Works" BS. Salvation is through Jesus Christ and based on "Grace." Works alone are not enough.

Eph. 2:8-9 - "For BY GRACE are ye SAVED THROUGH FAITH; and that NOT OF
YOURSELVES: it is the GIFT of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast."

Rom. 5:18 - Justification to God is a "FREE GIFT," not something you work toward.

Rom. 3:22 - God's righteousness is credited to "ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE," not all that work.

itus 3:5 - "NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost."

John 8:24 "If ye believe not that I am he ye shall die in your sins."

Romans 3:27-28 New International Version (NIV)
27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

I gotta agree with arakish on this one...... You are citing some real cherry picked verses and you appear to be reading a whole lot into them that just isn't there.

Still waiting for the justification of your HELL comment? Please demonstrate hell is not eternal like the Bible says it is.

Matthew, 15:46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

helloworld's picture
the root word for what

the root word for what translates to eternal (aionios) is aion which means age. Many early Christians interpreted those passages to mean "age-long fire" or "age-long punishment." Origen and Gregory of Nyssa come to mind.

Sky Pilot's picture
Cognostic,

Cognostic,

"Still waiting for that verse that tells us hell is not eternal and that once you are there you get out after a while..... It's no biblical teaching I have ever heard of or recall."

Read and understand Revelation 20:13-15 (KJV) = "13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

Now what does verse 13 say? It plainly says that the sea, death & hell gave up the dead who were in those places. Do you agree? So if that is true then everyone in those places makes bail on Judgment Day. That means that those places are temporary and not permanent.

Now what does verse 14 say? It says that death and hell are cast into the lake of fire. The people who were in hell were removed from hell so they are no longer in hell when it it tossed nto the lake of fire. Do you agree?

Then verse 15 says that who is not found in the book of like is tossed into the lake of fire. Hell and death have already been tossed into the lake of fire. Then the lost souls are tossed into the lake of fire. They are not sent back to hell but are tossed into the lake of fire. That means that the sea, death, hell, and the lake of fire are four separate places. And if your ass is tossed into the lake of fire you are no longer in hell. Likewise, if you had been previously in hell you were not in the lake of fire.

Got it?

In the Islamc hell people just stay dead until Judgment Day. Then they are resurrected and judged. If they pass each man gets his own private paradise. Some women become his sex slaves and most women are sent to hell. The guy also gets some cute boys and an eternal erection. Once you go to the Islamic hell you are tortured forever. As I've said before, most Christians and even atheists believe in the Islamic hell rather than in the biblical hell. They are not the same so know your hells as depicted in the ethnocentric Middle Eastern Jewish and Arabian religious fairy tales.

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