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shiningone's picture
@ David Killens

@ David Killens

You may find this short video interesting. It concerns the will of the people vs the actions of the government.

In regards to what keeps you on edge, I would pay particular attention to Recep Tayyip Erdoğan over the next few years. I have strong feelings that we are witnessing someone else to add to that list of yours.

David Killens's picture
Wow shiningone, that video is

Wow shiningone, that video is sad but true.

Personally I am not "paranoid" but I do fear runaway or misused power.

Is any nation morally justified in extending their might to control other nations? And where does it stop? What started as ensuring the flow of oil has gone from increased domestic production to stockpiling oil from other nations and making sure that the oil will not stop flowing, even if thousands of innocent civilians in other nations die and governments get overthrown. Reference Operation Ajax.

And did they ever find any WMD's in Iraq?

shiningone's picture
@ David killens

@ David killens

"Is any nation morally justified in extending their might to control other nations? And where does it stop?"
That's a huge topic. Not one that can be covered in a few paragraphs I'm sure.

One of the many things that are of concern about the Iraq invasion was that people were saying it's all about the oil not the WMD's. The trouble is many people soon forget their concerns if it's not kept in mind by their media. I am very surprised that you asked me if they ever found the WMD's. Where have you been? Are you joking? If you're not joking, It seems you don't follow the news well at all.
No, they did not find WMD's and it was revealed by the media that it was an intentional lie. But no one is holding Bush and Blair accountable for war crimes. Bush even had the audacity to joke about the entire invasion, that killed half a million CHILDREN.
As well as that, the secretary of state at the time, Madeleine Albright says 500,000 dead Iraqi Children was "worth it"
She also received the Presidential Medal of Freedom from Obama for it.
In my mind, these people are the epitome of evil.
Also, the oil that this war was "not over" became contracted to western oil firms after. But it was old news by then. Also, Halliburton who Dick Cheney the vice president at the time, used to work for got many contracts to rebuild Iraq. The values of which were around 140 billion.

David Killens's picture
My question was cynical

My question was cynical because it was all about keeping the oil flowing.14

LogicFTW's picture
@OP by shiningone

@OP by shiningone

In figuring out religion is essentially a giant perpetual scam, that so many people are so involved with, I look around to see what other scams of similar nature are going on. I do not pretend to have researched this for 30 years like you say you have.

Is the "west" the good guys? No. But this is true just about everywhere and all throughout human history.

You have the people on "top" and they do not get there by being "good" guys.

As I have lived in the US all my life, I know a lot about all the flaws of the US. But I have also traveled the world, and they have their own problems, sometimes worse, sometimes not as bad.

Overall war is down, slavery is down, education is up, life spans are up, and quality of living is up, way up. Have some people gained more than others? Absolutely.

Inequality always an issue, has been steadily getting worse the last 4 decades or so in the US. Increasingly the US is a terrible place to live if you are poor, a dangerous slide backwards from what used to be the largest, richest middle class the world has ever seen. Yet being poor in many central america countries is even worse.

Sure the US invades other countries and wages war or otherwise destabilize and topple countries, and the US has been doing this for along time, even before it rose to be a superpower after reaping the spoils of victory in ww2. But so has any other country that at one point had power over its neighbors. It is more the human condition then the US alone. The US is under a magnifying glass simply because it is the sole remaining superpower, all the abuses are put under a spotlight. (Does not help that the US spends as much money on military as nearly the rest of the entire world combined.)



I am an atheist that always likes a good debate
Please include @LogicFTW for responses to me
Tips on forum use. ▮ A.R. Member since 2016.

Cognostic's picture
America is No1 because it is

America is No1 because it is the land of the free. Korea is No1 because it has four distinct seasons. China is No1, Sudan is No1, Republic of the Congo is No1, Japan is No1, England is No1, South Africa is No 1. You show me country that is proud to be No2 and your argument will have merit. Any country dominated by a more powerful country can point a finger. When you are on the top of the pile, all fingers point at you. That implies no less indoctrination, brainwashing, than what is occurring in every country in the world. Imagine N. Korea having America's power and resources, what do you imagine life would be like then? You are lucky you live in a world where the power controlling the strings, does not give a damn about criticism and supports the idea that people, even insignificant people on forums, can freely express their opinions.

dogalmighty's picture
@cog Well put.


Well put.

David Killens's picture
Empedocles's picture
@David Killens

@David Killens

I love that clip.

Tin-Man's picture
Re: Cog's Post of No1

Re: Cog's Post of No1 Countries

Bingo! Give that man a cigar!

liomem's picture
@Cognostic .. If you have the

There is no good or bad people , It's an illusion

toto974's picture


And we ARE insignificant people on a forum.

arakish's picture
Me. I am a Highlander who

Me. I am a Highlander who happens to be living the US of A. When I retire, I shall be moving to New Zealand. Fuck the USA. Yes, it has incredible freedoms. However, in my opinion, due to militant rise of the remaining Christians, USA is quickly becoming the sorriest shit-hole of the world, in my opinion. I have grown so damned tired of the Christians always militantly attempting to indoctrinate me. Sometimes, it gets so bad I feel I should carry a gun. That is how threatening the Religious Absolutists have become.

I wonder if I can get into New Zealand under grounds of fleeing religious persecution and threats to my life?


SecularSonOfABiscuitEater's picture
I agree. The US is becoming a

I agree. The US is becoming a more ridiculous country every single day.

liomem's picture
You think liberals should be

You think liberals should be more strict ???

SecularSonOfABiscuitEater's picture
I recognize the parallel that

I recognize the parallel that you are trying to illustrate to us and while I don't completely disagree with you, I will say that there is a significant dichotomy between living under a democratic government and devotion to religion. It would be a mistake to view these two things as absolutely synonymous.

David Killens's picture
I live very close to the USA.

I live very close to the USA. I was named after a US President (Dwight David Eisenhower), I believe that the US Constitution is the most wonderful and greatest document every put to paper, and I have countless friends in the USA. But I do not want or like the flavor of "freedom" and politics coming out of the USA. I would not live in that nation.

The USA have a lot of things properly figured out, but they also do a lot of things very wrong.

Empedocles's picture
I'm a believer in the Bible

I'm a believer in the Bible which puts me in a sort of awkward position. Like Jesus I'm no part of the world. I don't vote, don't pledge allegiance to a flag, don't try and influence legislation, won't fight in any wars etc. I obey the "laws" of the country in which I live, though I do recognize that most of those "laws" are regulations and statutes. Lawlessness. Criminal.

Video: Law School In 10 Minutes -

Most of these lawless laws, in the U.K. as well as the U.S.A., are based upon consent through ignorance. The illusion of Constitutional Rights is seen for what it actually is as time goes on, especially with technology closing the gaps between us and opening up the possibility of voices outside of the mainstream media.

Video: The Act Of 1871 Fully Exposed -

A more rapid and timely transition into this sort of plutocracy can be seen in the more recent state of affairs in Libya.

Video: Libya & Gaddafi - The Truth You Are Not Supposed To Know -

In the U.S.A. it began in earnest with the old "Robber Barons." They pretty much set up our medical, pharmaceutical and education programs. And they don't want us to be able to think for ourselves. That's for sure. This is so transparent in the mainstream media now because it is pretty much run by the "Corporate America."

Video: Plutocracy: Political Repression -

Video: Zeitgeist Addendum - Fractional Reserve Banking -

Video: The Deliberate Dumbing Down Of America -

Video: Debunking A Century Of War Lies -

Cognostic's picture
DAVID: Great post. I have

DAVID: Great post. I have lived in Korea and have had extended stays in the Philippines and Thailand. I have stayed in Mexico. I have been all over China. You know what these countries have that America does not. A police department that does not profit off its citizens. America is a police state. American freedom is an illusion and I can tell you for a fact that many other countries in the world have as much or more freedom than Americans.

Sky Pilot's picture


"American freedom is an illusion and I can tell you for a fact that many other countries in the world have as much or more freedom than Americans."

America has the best propaganda in the world. It sold the lie that we were fighting for freedom in two world wars while we denied freedom to a large part of the population based on race.

Bob Lawson's picture


I agree that indoctrination is insidious and I think you are a prime example of a victim. You have succumb, it seems, to the nonsense espoused by the Left. This is not attack on you, so please don't be offended. Probably most atheists would agree with you, but in the last few years I have moved to the Right. I would say our Western governments are the good guys. Can you name a non-Western culture that defends free speech and individual rights?


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