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Adrian's picture
The universe being hostile

The universe being hostile for life may be why we're here at all to begin with though. For instance the Earth was perfectly hospitable with no major extinction events then nothing much may have evolved beyond the algal stage as nothing would need to ever evolve to survive harsh changing conditions.It would just sit there in a rich soup of nutrients surviving very nicely. It's a bit like the 'Shadow Philosophy' from Babylon 5.

I'm not saying we should purposefully engineer a massive war to kick start our evolutional pace or anything. You could still argue that much of human progress has come through warfare from the conquests of the Roman Empire to the US gaining it's prominence as a global power after WW2. I don't think this particularly an argument for Gods existence anyway, certainly can't link it directly anything the Bible or the Quran says. The Bible just goes on about original sin of Adam and Eve and Christs redemption from it and the Quran is more about giving people something fairly arbitrary to do for a reward (72 virgins) after they die. That's as deep as they go into it as go.

While a the sun is inhospitable to life if you get too close life on Earth is entirely dependent on it btw, with the exception of the life you find around thermal vents. If the sun were to suddenly disappear they would be completely fine down there.

noreason's picture
I got to say, I dislike this

I got to say, I dislike this nested posts type format.

but then again, I am an idiot.

Adrian's picture
Well you need to have

Well you need to have something always existed and was never caused by anything else to exist to avoid an infinite regression but what that could be is just existence itself which can be an infinite cycle within itself much as say the Buddhists believe. God if he existed would be part of existence anyway so it's the same difference either way. Even if there is a God you still have to prove it was the Christian/Muslim etc God and not something else we know nothing about so it would be irrelevant as an argument for anything specific.

noreason's picture
not really dark. We can

not really dark. We can render infinite regress meaningless to the proof of "they have some of the god thing traits wrong.". We can settle on we don't know what came before our universe. so if we all agree that this universe is all we have to talk about then we can talk about one step before it. Not an infinite number of steps before it.

'god was born" is reasonable. "The universe may have been born." is reasonable. "the universe started from "something.' is reasonable. "The universe popped out of nothing",I hate to say it, its also reasonable.

there is no reason rational people have to fight those notions. they are only contradictory to people that do not understand what we are talking about.


Adrian's picture
God doesn't necessarily make

God doesn't necessarily make the existence of the universe any easier to explain or comprehend as theists seem to think it does anyway. I once saw a Christian how Jesus Christ pre-existed before the the universe was created. I asked him what Jesus got up to in the eternity of time before he/God made the universe he just said the nature of time in the context to eternity is unfathomable to the human mind. It would be anyway without the need to inject a mythological being/s into the situation. Or say the supernatural, I don't what even is meant to be if we aren't taking it to mean 'made up'. You can have a natural, a supernatural and a super duper natural and have an infinite regression of different kinds of things beyond the natural. However you could just have the natural, which we know to exist, and there you go. No artificial additives, just pure wholesome goodness.

chimp3's picture
@DRKFUTURE Avoiding the

@DRKFUTURE Avoiding the argument entirely is not a bad strategy. You are dealing with amateurs who have no background in philosophy, biology or physics. Yet they feel empowered to assert answers to questions that are being studied by the brightest minds on earth. If you are not an expert , then why make a fool out of yourself. Everybody wants to be a WL Craig these days instead of a good, old fashioned street preacher that yells at pedestrians. What ever happened to Hellfire and "The End Is Near!" ?

David Killens's picture
I do not believe this

I do not believe this "infinite regress" has a place in reality. I have an example that disproves this concept.

Imagine I had a finger over a button and it took me one second to depress the button. For the first half second my finger traveled half the distance. For the next 1/4 of a second it traveled 1/4 of the distance. According to infinite regress, my finger would never depress the button because it only traveled half way to the final push.

drkfuture2's picture
"magine I had a finger over a

"magine I had a finger over a button and it took me one second to depress the button. For the first half second my finger traveled half the distance...."

its not ur concept, its old ZENO's paradox.
If we want to solve this paradox by assuming that action and time are continuos , as implied by Zeno's argument, then it is difficult to logically solve this paradox. In case, time and action are considered discrete and quantized, then we can easily solve this paradox

Sheldon's picture
Tell any theists invoking

Tell any theists invoking anxiety to avoid infinite regress they're using an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy.

Then as them what objective evidence they can demonstrate for any deity.

Why should this demand any deity anymore than any other unevidenced concept? Also point out that this argument gets you no closer to evidencing Jesus than it does Zeus or Apollo.


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