I'm new here. My name is matt. I'm extremely disappointed in a God that hides himself and leaves us with a Bible that makes little sense and an enormous mess of Religions claiming they have the truth and those who believe differently are heretics. God does an extremely poor job of shepherding his flock and everyone who seeks the truth is lead to a different conclusion it seems. God has not shown himself to be trustworthy or dependable at all.
He is a terrible Father. He is the Father that just sits there and does nothing but watch his children get deceived, raped, tortured, murdered, and he just remains silent. What a monster!
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Then why are you a theist?
It's a long story. Many people showed up in my life to help me in the nick of time. To often it seemed like a Father/Mother/Angel/Saint was helping me out. I've researched many certified miracles as well. I pray when I have nothing else to do.
Instead of praying when you have nothing to do, why not do something that has an effect, like working at habitat for humanity, or at a food bank, or tutoring a kid who is struggling in school?
I have tutored children with special needs. Yes I should do that. But how about when I'm walking from one location to the other or waiting in line. Or trying to fall asleep and hours are going by and I'm just laying there. At those times I pray and I think there is power to it. I ask anyone whether they are Jew, Muslim, Catholic, Protestant, Hindu, whateva to say a short prayer for me. I keep an open mind. Which may be dangerous perhaps!
The opposite.. Keeping a closed mind is dangerous. Because you prey to several different gods it doesn't mean you have an open mind by any means. You're still willing to close up and hope someone/thing will come and help, even though there's no evidence so far to suggest that ever has or ever will happen. That is not open-mindedness, it's delusion.
.. I believe the power people think prayers have are all completely tricks of the mind. Remembering what you preyed for, then if it happens it must be god answering your prayer, no possibility that this thing could have just coincidentally happened.. And you have to remember, we are what we do, and we do what we think. So if your prayer for something doesn't leave your mind, something that is perhaps very important to you, you can actually make this thing happen yourself without realizing, that makes you the one to thank, not god.. And of course the impossible prayers, save the homeless, heal the world. These are things that only we can do, and every second spent praying instead of doing is time wasted and is actually making all our problems as a species worsen.
So far I went from being a sociopath to having a strong conscience and being very sensitive to the feelings of others and forgiving those who wrong me largely due to transforming experiences and graces that took place during prayer. I wouldn't trade that for a brick of gold.
Sociopaths often turn to arbitrary external belief structures to supplement their internal lack thereof. That's not news, clinically speaking. And, that's not really a conscience either.
There are actually a few threads on this forum already that deal with that subject in varying degrees.
Indeed, if any of the god are actually real, they're doing a good job of seeming like they don't exist. Monster is the best word to describe such a being.
.. Everyone seeking truth are not lead to different conclusions Matt, if it's truth you're seeking you must follow only the facts. If your searching for something "greater" than this life (which is of course impossible for anyone in this life to know or prove,) follow religion.
That last one was actually my first post and was a response to the op. The layout of these forums is a bit annoying at times
Yeah I don't like the layout of this forum. I like it when the last post is at the bottom :(
Me too ppl should just stop using reply lol
Stop using reply. Got it! :)
Welcome to the group, I'm new myself, newer than you I maybe. If I had your mindset, I'd do an experiment. I'd pray to Zeus for two weeks for the same reasons and compare the effectiveness of the change with praying to your God.
Prayer is one of the easiest things there is to test. Especially intercessory prayer. Intercessory prayer is when you pray for someone else. It can be done without them knowing it and the effectiveness of the prayer can be determined by the person offering the prayers. There have been many studies done using intercessory prayer, you should check out Francis Galton's work in the 1800s. If you really want to know if God is listening to you, pray for someone without them knowing it and see if you can repeat any positive results with several tests with other people in need. Intercessory prayer is totally unselfish and a righteous God will heed the prayer's of the unselfish. If your God isn't answering your prayers like it says in Matthew 21:22 then he's either imaginary, or he's not listening to you. Is it logical to worship a being that doesn't listen or answer you, but says ask and you shall receive in the Good Book?
Matthew 21:22 King James Version - by Public Domain
22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.
If Jesus says your prayers will be answered, He is inviting you to test His generosity by praying. Test prayer and see if you can come up with different results than Galton.
There seems to be nothing else theists will accept for example ive posted dozens of different links that explain evolution but usually they simply refuse to even look saying 'your biased sites cannot fool me'. If the bible is all the accept then use it.
Absolutely correct and you know you're effective when you hear what I hear. Not once but 4 times in debates with Christians they have told me to "stop quoting scripture" because they say I don't understand it. I have access to over 100 different Christian Bibles and carefully choose the version that reflects my opponents faith, yet they accuse me of not understanding the scripture. It is they that can't take the literal translation and always spin the meaning to maintain their delusion. Yes, 4 times on different occasions they told me not to reprint "their scriptures" and I consider myself a Biblical Historian, took a year of church Latin back in 1964, in order to read the Latin Vulgate. I was a brought up a Christian and my research of the history to determine the credibility of authorship led me to doubt anything written in the OT and NT, the Quran and any of the other religions that rely on supernatural explanations rather than physical ones. I've had at least 10 different times where Christians have accused me of hating God, when they all know I can't hate a being I don't have evidence for, anymore than they can hate the tooth fairy as they don't have anymore evidence of her existing than they do of their God.
I agree with you lmale, quoting their own book's contradictions and verses condoning slavery, kidnapping, rape and murder of babies and children as the ipso-facto standard for debating Christians. It's easy to beat them with their own scriptures because most haven't read the Bible cover to cover and just spew what they are told by charlatans who don't do their own thinking either.
Yes accusations of hatred seem to be a last line of defence when they cant think of a way to refute your point.
I habe no doubt their religious leaders are telling them atheists really do believe in god they just hate him or they worship satan.
By the way we only have the bibles word that satans bad funny satan didnt release a book giving his side oh wait thats because he aint real.
"strong conscience and being very sensitive to the feelings of others and forgiving those who wrong me"
I bet you don't follow this christian doctrine to the letter:
King James 2000 Bible, Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brothers, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Keep praying to this god for nothing, whichever path you choose, you cannot be his disciple since you cannot love everybody and hate at the same time.
It is a game you play on your mind to have an imaginary friend that agrees with you and that lets others control your mind, just by saying god says this and that.
There is no truth in this theology, just wishful thinking to control the masses, politics works the same way with less exaggerations and contradictions..
Jeff Vella Leone as i was raised a Christian and know the Bible well, the meaning of Luke 14:26 is Jesus saying that you have to leave your old life behind to be his follower not necessarily saying to hate the ones you love. You may understand he was a Jew a very religous Jew and all he said was as a Jewish man, living in a country that the Jews had been told was promised to them by there God, and under occupation by a foreign power the mighty Roman Empire. So all his preaching was to the Jews and he particularly hated those Jews who were cooperating with the Romans and were becoming rich or richer by kissing arse. He had apparently attracted a large following and was seen to becoming a problem, you may remember he was handed to the Romans by his own Jewish people who wanted rid of him. He was subsequently killed and his body taken by either the Romans or there Jewish colaborators who did not want to make his burial make him a martyr, which was a mistake in hindsight because it elevated him to God status as his followers claimed him resurrected.
Polly Ticks I completely agree with you I do think you have a better chance in argument with religious people if you understand there Holy Book either the Bible or the, Quran. But to convince these people who dont want to see any differently and refuse to read or view scientific facts, research etc would be a very trying battle, particularly if you say these evangelical churches are so well funded.
Wicked Clown you came to a Atheist site and complain about a God who just looks on and does nothing, to help all the injustices in the world. I think you know the answer, to your own questions you just want confirmation of your view that he does not exist. Maybe your constant prayers are your way of giving the God you hope exists a last chance to show to you he does indeed exist. Prayer is just a self imposed system of brainwashing to reinforce your faith, I think you are coming to the same conclusion as all the Athiests on this site that no God no invisible force exists and never did.
Bruce i think you should be more modest when declaring your opinion on what Jesus meant when he said to hate your own family members and yourself.
When you disagree with your parents on some subject, do you hate your parents and yourself?
I don't, i believe in freedom of speech, and everyone has the right to their opinion and I don't hate people when I disagree with them on something.
So if Jesus uses the word hate, it is for a reason.
It is just illogical that he uses such a strong and misplaced word to just say that it is ok to disagree with your family.
This is a Christian apologetic dodge repeated over and over again to discredit the fact that Jesus wants you to hate those that do not accept his doctrine even if they are your family and if you yourself have any doubts.
Just repent and come to god.
That is the message I get.
"he particularly hated those Jews who were cooperating with the Romans and were becoming rich or richer by kissing arse."
Please quote me where did he say that he hated them?
He knew that the Jew hated them, that is sure.
but he was clear on this matter:
And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marveled at him.
So i think you are misinformed on the character of Jesus, he never said anything against the Romans, No gospel ever says a single thing against the roman oppressors.
Though it says a bunch against the Jews and their most knowledgeable people at a point in time when the Jews were declaring war to Rome. The messianic movements.
The gospels are a mockery of the Jewish laws and people, this is obvious if you study well the gospels.
And no i'm not a Jew :P, Just have an unbiased approach at reading and analyzing the gospels.
I am not saying that Jesus wants his followers to hate whoever hinders their faith ONLY
Jesus mentions in other parts that you must love everybody.
Apart from that contradiction.
The only option left is to assume that he is trying to please the ones who hate people because they insulted their fate and also please the people that thinking that love is the key of salvation.
Clearly Jesus is just acting as a politician does today. To gather as many followers as possible in his theology even if he has to contradict himself in many aspects.
Hi, wicked clown, are you still here? I hope you enjoy the community. By the way, are you still a theist? Why did you chose that username?