Jesus messiah or criminal

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MiltonAsh's picture
non theist: "jesus fulfilled

non theist: "jesus fulfilled prophecy hundreds of years earlier." This is false.

SBMontero's picture
No, I'm sorry to disagree, we

No, I'm sorry to disagree, we know. We know that there isn't the slightest proof of the existence of the alleged historical figure of Jesus outside the Gospels. We know that the figure of Jesus was included in the Torah from the third century. We know that the historical sources of that time come to us misrepresented and that the texts attributed to the historians of that time are much later christian inclusions and forgeries.

If we know all this, and we know it, we cannot say "We don't know". They don't want to know. it isn't the same.

SBMontero's picture
No, that isn't true. There is

No, that isn't true. There is no reliable historical source of that time that assumes the existence of the supposed historical figure of Jesus. There are references Including by Christian scribes in texts of Yosef ben Matatiahu, better known as Flavius Josephus, Jewish Antiques -A text that comes us in four different versions: Greek (Eusebio de Cesarea's Ecclesiastical History), Latin (De Viris Illustribus, de San Jerónimo), Arabic (Agapios, X century) and Syria (Chronicle Siriaca by Miguel, The Sirius, 12th century). The Latin, Arabic and Syrian versions are based on the first, Greek, by Eusebius of Caesarea, one of the fathers of the present Bible who has the dubious honor of being one of the greatest forgers of historical texts that has existed in order to be coupled to the Christian myth)-. If you want I can continue with Tacitus, Pliny, the old man, Pliny, the young man, or Suetonius.
There is no Roman historical reference of that time to Jesus. Pilate didn't sent any report to Rome about having executed any Jesus, which he did about the executions of the Samaritans or many others.

Then, If you have any historical reference to the existence of the supposed historical figure of Jesus, please explain.

SBMontero's picture
Sorry to be repetitive, but,

Sorry to be repetitive, but, Have you any proof about you say happened? And if so, What evidences are? Because I assure you that a Batman comic doesn't imply that Batman has existed, exists, or will exist... really.

MCDennis's picture
myth, legend, made-up,

myth, legend, made-up, exhaggeration, compilation

SecularSonOfABiscuitEater's picture
I think that today's Idea of

Comment deleted by user - ssob

SecularSonOfABiscuitEater's picture
I think that today's Idea of

I think that today's Idea of Jesus was based on a person who reallly believed in what they were preaching and was mutilated & murdered for it (As people with different ideas from the norm often were back then) Then the stories of his life and death were heavily exploited for profit.

mykcob4's picture
As I said before jesus was a

As I said before jesus was a rebel that was politically and unwittingly manipulated by Sejanus. Pontius Pilot, the then king of Judea and Sejanus were using political unrest in the region to circumvent Ceasar and the religious leaders of the Jews. When Tiberius caught on and executed Sejanus, jesus' fate was sealed. Tiberius eradicated any record of Sejanus and in doing so erased Roman records on all the rebels including jesus save one. There is a remote Roman record of jesus os Nazareth in reference to his older brother James. James was jailed and died in prison for insurrection. Funny that that jesus was born of a virgin but had an older brother from the same mother. In Roman days all children were chronicled according to their mother as often times the father was not known. So jesus was NOT born of a virgin. If he existed and that is a big IF, he was little more than the leader of a revolutionary group that opposed the Jewish leadership and Ceasar. IF he existed, he would have been executed without any witnesses in a remote area along with many others that happened on a daily basis while Tiberius put down a nationwide revolt.

Truett's picture
Mykcob4, I'm not familiar

Mykcob4, I'm not familiar with the history of Sejanus and the other history you detail. It's interesting and fascinating. Thanks for talking about it.

curtisabass's picture
In the very entertaining BBC

In the very entertaining BBC (I believe) miniseries "I, Claudius" the character Sejanus was played by Patrick Stewart (" Make it so") wearing a really awful toupee. Just saying it for a grin.

Sky Pilot's picture
That's an interesting theory

That's an interesting theory about Tiberius and Sejanus and the first time I've read it. Do you have any sources for it?

MiltonAsh's picture
Messiah, not.

Messiah, not.

curtisabass's picture
The poster who goes by "non

The poster who goes by "non theist" has been outed as a christian apologist in prevoius threads and has been thoroughly firebombed by mykcob4.

Nyarlathotep's picture
@non theist:

@non theist:

Maybe you will accept these "sources" on the matter:

non theist - I just doubt and put no validity in the bible

non theist - jesus death according to the prophet Isaiah was to usher in the messianic age but it did not, it never happened. the whole thing is a con game

non theist - To believe in a figure in jesus is to be blind in all aspects of critical thinking


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