let's give it a try

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aeirihannah's picture
let's give it a try

I have a faith that I have been sold on therefor any counter argument is in turn automatically invalid in my eyes. Not to say I wonot hear you out... it just wouldn't change my perspective. But my question is to all those non believers is... why do you want to find the non existence of a higher being instead of an existence? On this topic I'm confused as to why someone prefers to live their lives as if there is nothing to look forward to afterwards. If this is the case then why bother living at all. There is no point the entire existing earth is pointless. Or am u wrong? What is there to really look forward to if it's not eternal everlasting happiness. If I die and that's all... that's not eternal. It was just for a moment. So why? Open to listen to any opinion regardless of my own

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ImFree's picture
Just because you want it to

Just because you want it to be that way doesn't make it so. I prefer to believe in what evidence shows to be true. I'm not interested in a placebo world view of mythical deity(s).

aeirihannah's picture
Evidence of what?

Evidence of what?

ImFree's picture
Of the existence of a god, if

Of the existence of a god, if not provided I don’t believe.

Travis Hedglin's picture
"I have a faith that I have

"I have a faith that I have been sold on therefor any counter argument is in turn automatically invalid in my eyes. Not to say I wonot hear you out... it just wouldn't change my perspective."

So, basically, you have come to try and convert us because we should be open minded, while you can remain blissfully close-minded because your position is somehow superior to our own. How disingenuous and blatantly intellectually bankrupt that is, but hey, at least you are honest about it.

"But my question is to all those non believers is... why do you want to find the non existence of a higher being instead of an existence?"

Want? What makes you think we want anything. We didn't approach the question of gods existence looking for what we wanted to find, that is what religious people do, and why their scientific literature is often full of more misrepresentations and outright falsehoods than actual truths about absolutely anything. We approach the question of gods existence looking for what is actually there, not what we might like to be there, but what actually is. The reason why so many of us don't believe in god, isn't because we don't like it, for many of us USED to be religious. The reason we don't believe is simply because there isn't any good evidence that it is true, a good amount of evidence implicating that it is false, and a vanishingly small reason to believe it in the first place.

"On this topic I'm confused as to why someone prefers to live their lives as if there is nothing to look forward to afterwards."

Because we base our beliefs on actual reason, not preference, but thanks for having the honestly to let us know you only really believe because that is your preference. That is a a rather insightful, and indicting, piece of information to have in our future discussions with you.

"If this is the case then why bother living at all."

Wow, okay, I am not entirely sure how to deal with this level of nihilism. For one, no one CHOOSES to be born, so it isn't like we had a choice in the matter before our ass was in the diaper, literally and figuratively. Also, once we are here and enjoying our lives, why should we kill ourselves just because it doesn't last forever? Imagine, you are eating the best cake you have EVER had, do you kill yourself before you finish just because it isn't infinite? Hell no. How nihilistic are you religious people? Do you really think your religions are the sole reason someone should ever want to live? Do you, honestly, know how deluded and arrogant that actually sounds?

"There is no point the entire existing earth is pointless. Or am u wrong?"

You am wrong.(Your syntax, not mine)

"What is there to really look forward to if it's not eternal everlasting happiness."

The possibility of tomorrow.

"If I die and that's all... that's not eternal. It was just for a moment. So why? Open to listen to any opinion regardless of my own."

Because happiness doesn't need to be eternal to have either meaning or be appreciated, are you a whinging infant, to argue that if you aren't happy forever, then nothing should have ever existed? Just how self-absorbed and narcissistic CAN you people BE??

aeirihannah's picture
You are type of person who

You are type of person who likes to twist words into something else... this post is an inquiry I didn't bash your beliefs I asked about them so keep the rude comments to a minimum or better yet not at all thanks

ImFree's picture
Travis was being honest and

Travis was being honest and to the point. If you wear your feelings on your sleeve, perhaps an atheist debate room is not the venue for you.

Travis Hedglin's picture
"You are type of person who

"You are type of person who likes to twist words into something else..."

I honestly can't conceive of anyone thinking that I took your words out of context, I actually addressed your questions, you just dislike the fact that you came out muddy at the end of it. You, quite literally, gave anyone all the ammunition they could possibly need to destroy your rather tattered and weak suppositions. You all but clearly stated that your position is based off of preference and desire, rather than anything even remotely rational, and proceeded to ask us how life could possibly have any meaning or value beyond your rather narrow and telescopic worldview. Sorry, life and the world are just one hell of a lot bigger than that, and you are simply blind to it.

"this post is an inquiry I didn't bash your beliefs I asked about them so keep the rude comments to a minimum or better yet not at all thanks"

Seriously? Are you really going to pretend that the majority of what I mentioned wasn't even tacitly implied? Are you going to be so dishonest that you can't even deal with an honest and complete deconstruction of your inquiry?

aeirihannah's picture
Also reason is not proof of a

Also reason is not proof of a non existence of a god... it's just reason. its probably. You people? So now you are categorizing me into a specific group. Although I never expressed exactly what I believe in... so uh what?

Travis Hedglin's picture
"Also reason is not proof of

"Also reason is not proof of a non existence of a god... it's just reason."

True, just as an utter and complete lack of evidence for something isn't positive proof that it doesn't exist, it just extremely strongly implies it. Also, as lack of evidence is the ultimate reason not to believe in something, and a terribly piss-poor reason to believe in it.

"its probably."

I think you mean probability, and no, it isn't. It is impossible to assign probability to that without any evidence, for what would your data points in the calculation be?

"You people? So now you are categorizing me into a specific group."

Yep, the dogmatically religious.

"Although I never expressed exactly what I believe in... so uh what?"

Doesn't matter, you have already exhibited just how dogmatically religious you are.

science's picture
Theists think that having

Theists think that having "faith" and "believing" is enough proof for them that something mystical exists. Where as a person with more reason, and logic, will of course question things that have no scientific, or sensible backing. If you were going to do business with an individual, wouldn't ANY reasonably intelligent person check them out to see if what they are telling you has any credence, BEFORE you give this person your money?? Of course you would. But theists feel that that is not necessary...to just believe and have faith is enough...that is why they are more vulnerable to scams where they will lose their money, as I pointed out in a post a while back. Very simply put, faith and belief is not enough proof that something exists.

science's picture
Theists think that having

Theists think that having "faith" and "believing" is enough proof for them that something mystical exists. Where as a person with more reason, and logic, will of course question things that have no scientific, or sensible backing. If you were going to do business with an individual, wouldn't ANY reasonably intelligent person check them out to see if what they are telling you has any credence, BEFORE you give this person your money?? Of course you would. But theists feel that that is not necessary...to just believe and have faith is enough...that is why they are more vulnerable to scams where they will lose their money, as I pointed out in a post a while back. Very simply put, faith and belief is not enough proof that something exists.

aeirihannah's picture
I think their is a reason

I think there is a reason only a very small portion of the pie belongs to non believers. Hmm... just saying

Nyarlathotep's picture
argumentum ad populum

argumentum ad populum

aeirihannah's picture
And that still goes around

And that still goes around the question... what is the point of life?

Travis Hedglin's picture
To live.

To live.

Mitch's picture
I've often thought "What is

I've often thought "What is the point of life?" as being an I statement. What a person asking that question is really saying - by virtue of what they leave out - is "I have no reason to live."

You and I have an innate will to live, and no "point" is needed. Some people say they know the point of your life, while others will say there is no point. Some people say you make your own reason.

I suppose there is really only one reason to live, and that reason is whatever one you want. Keep in mind, however, that time waits for no one. There is no judge in the end, no one keeping score. We finish when we finish. Full stop.

I will choose for myself what to do with my time. And that's what atheisim is about: freedom. And all that comes with it.

Pitar's picture
It's just the way of it for

It's just the way of it for anyone who does not subscribe to the existence of a god.

For the sake of leveling things to some extent, let's consider your god. I don't know him. No one you know does, either. He, or it if you prefer, manifests himself only to the extent that your psyche will allow. Because no one else can access your psyche, they will never know your (personal) god. It's that very god that you believe in and not the god existing in someone else's psyche. It's that very god you are defending, not theirs. This is part of the poly-theism argument that does not render itself onto logic as a singular entity for all to commonly reference as the one god. This is, logically, due to the lack of revelation of the one god at a place in time and in such a manner as to remain staunchly and indisputably enduring. No one can claim this event as fact.

Then, there's the same argument that applies to the bible. It's your bible, not mine or anyone else's, that you reference and defend. The words are the same but the exposure and interpretation are vastly varying across the multitudes of sensitivities. I doubt many have been exposed to the entire 700,000 plus words of the bible, their meaning, context and purpose to the reader (or writer, the latter of which was often the glorification of). It is written into the archeological record that the bible was a fabrication from myths and legends, boldly plagiarized from it's earliest beginnings - even by Paul - to enhance the texts with mystical premise and promise.This greatly burdens any singular defense of the work to the greater good of the many who profess a belief in it. In other words, your own defense of a particular portion of the bible could differ from another person's who might be within earshot of you.

Most people who defend the bible do so because they've been indoctrinated and conscripted to, which can be an auto-conscription.

Then, on the personal issue of the existence of a god, all of us were indoctrinated at very young ages to believe in a singular god. We were told a god existed by our respective cultures. Then we were religiously molded by our forebears as they were by theirs and before, into antiquity. A singular god became a doctrine. I don't need to define that for you. The point is, we were groomed to believe in a singular god by people we trusted. These same people would, at a given moment, draft its generation of young men and women and send them off to be sacrificed in national defense despite the Thou Shalt Not Kill commandment. You can see how the thinking man will analyze the specific facets of a god-fearing culture and logically have no choice but to fail it's precepts rather than uphold them.

For every point, there is a counter-point. Life is a constant state of balanced debate. Welcome aboard.

The idea of a singular god fails to manifest itself in logic. In faith, however, it reigns supreme to those who would dismiss the true burden of logic. This is an rather ugly example of point-counter-point, but it remains part of the human fabric regardless of how tattered.

Personally speaking, which is in answer to one of your questions, I do not hold a belief in a god. I'm quite comfortable with the knowledge that I have no purpose on this planet other than to entertain my own personal will to survive, and succeed in providing a reasonably happy existence until I am no more. I am finite. I came from, and will return to a state of zero self consciousness. I find the idea that I am the work of a god most entertaining, but wholly unreasonable. I see it as the story presiding throughout man's sentient existence as the desperate hope for purpose and immortality. Am I fearful of eventually succumbing to the cold hard truth of nothingness at the end of my life? Certainly. But, I must accept that rather than the god-doctrine.

Now, you can very easily in your mind, where you conjure up your idea of a single god and embrace your bible, dismiss everything I presented here by simply claiming your god had me think and type everything here, if you wish. But, then again, there's that little paradox of free will that always gets in the way.

Borp Schnorman's picture
Usually, when someone tries

Usually, when someone tries so hard, as you are, to convert people to your belief system, it's because they're actually trying to convince themselves within their own belief system.

rotiferuk's picture
"I have a faith that I have

"I have a faith that I have been sold on therefor any counter argument is in turn automatically invalid in my eyes. Not to say I wonot hear you out... it just wouldn't change my perspective."

I understand, your mind is completely closed.

"But my question is to all those non believers is... why do you want to find the non existence of a higher being instead of an existence?"

I do not "want to find the non existence of a higher being", I am merely waiting for someone to provide evidence for the supernatural.

"On this topic I'm confused as to why someone prefers to live their lives as if there is nothing to look forward to afterwards."

This life is real, we are experiencing it, unfortunately it is as fleeting as it is enjoyable. So IMHO it is best to make the most of it while we can. Your "afterlife" is just a nonsensical claim, a comfort blanket for superstitious adults.

"If this is the case then why bother living at all. There is no point the entire existing earth is pointless. Or am u wrong? What is there to really look forward to if it's not eternal everlasting happiness. If I die and that's all... that's not eternal. It was just for a moment. So why?"

1) People are free to add their own meaning(s) to their life if they feel the need. Just like you are doing.
2) You will be dead for eternity.

"Open to listen to any opinion regardless of my own"

Of course you are..........

CyberLN's picture
TT1120,

TT1120,

From your profile picture, you appear relatively young. From your posts, you appear rather under educated. The former will most definitely change, the latter is entirely up to you.

The arguments you have used in this forum are flimsy, tired, rather juvenile, and obvious rumination. They may, however, be the only arguments of which you are capable at present.

If your goal is to be taken seriously, perhaps your next step should be to examine those arguments for their efficacy, and if none is found, go discover new and improved ones.

Andrew McArthur's picture
Do you not have any children?

Do you not have any children? Or family? Or any working senses? Are you so special that you think you are going to live forever, despite the fact that everything else in the universe dies? Or are you just afraid of the dark? Dying is part of life, and it's why I try do make sure my life matters now. If I were you I wouldn't wait until You get to heaven before opening your eyes and yourself to experience and gaining knowledge. It might not be there. On the bright side, I suppose the fact that you won't be there either may make you feel less silly.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Andrew McArthur - "Are you so

Andrew McArthur - "Are you so special that you think you are going to live forever"

I call it HeavenGreed™

Thredder's picture
Thetruth, you ask why not

Thetruth, you ask why not believe in an afterlife as this earthly existence is pointless.... has any faith explained the "point" of an afterlife? Eternity seems pretty pointless if you ask me... especially eternal bliss... sounds quite dull after a while. So why would there be any "point" to an afterlife that would be different to our brief time in this mortal flesh? Curious.

Luther's picture
thetruth1120:

thetruth1120:
Atheists are not necessarily all alike. You asked "why do you want to find the non existence of a higher being instead of an existence? On this topic I'm confused as to why someone prefers to live their lives as if there is nothing to look forward to afterwards."

I actually never sought the non-existence of a higher being. It's simply a matter of reasoning things out. It was a conclusion I came to, over a long period of time, but it wasn't a matter of preference. It's not unlike the realization I came to at some point in my childhood that Santa Claus isn't real. I quite liked the thought of him being real and I wanted him to be real, but eventually reason and reality won out; preference had nothing to do with it. I also struggled for a long time with the idea of not existing after I die. I would much prefer to be given wings and be able to fly around the universe, but again, reason won out. Reality is what it is, and it's not warm and magical, even though I wish it were.

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