Massacre in Christchurch, New Zealand

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Up To My Neck's picture
This is a tragedy. Another

This is a tragedy. Another one unfortunately. I often wonder if the shootings happen because of religious retaliation, or if it’s an easy place to shoot lots of people. I suppose the most disturbing fact is that there are many people all over the world who have no problem taking the lives of many innocent people. Really sad.

Up To My Neck's picture
This is a tragedy. Another

But if you believe in god, I guess that’s the way they are supposed to go! What bullshit!

Sky Pilot's picture
Pirate Jack,

Pirate Jack,

"But if you believe in god, I guess that’s the way they are supposed to go! What bullshit!"

The Bible is loaded with such stories from start to finish. How many religious leaders have you seen denounce the Bible for the hate and racism that it preaches? So from a religious pov the guy did exactly what the Bible preaches. Maybe he was following more of a political doctrine than a religious one. Countless politicians around the world are currently encouraging such behavior in all kinds of ways.

The bottom line is that humans are basically vicious animals. That behavior has given us our current civilization. Could we survive as a species if we killed off all of the predators among us? If we go down that road then we would end up stoning people to death who pick up sticks on the "sabbath".

David Killens's picture
I will withhold any opinion

I will withhold any opinion on the attackers until more information is revealed. I suggest we use the same standards of evidence as used in our debates.

toto974's picture
Good idea David Killens.

Good idea David Killens.

LogicFTW's picture
A very sad event.

A very sad event.

Guns of all types offer too much deadly power to anyone, even someone having a bad day/month/year or someone filled with hate.

I don't know how to put the "gun" genie back in the bottle, once the general populace has access to powerful war like weapons, getting it back or keeping it from people that should not have guns gets exceedingly difficult, even for a "smallish" island nation.

It sucks how just a few people can ruin the lives of so many.

liomem's picture
Well depending on the names

Well depending on the name on his gun like " Charles Martel " and other religious symbols that he has ! It's clear he is a religious terrorist I don't know what kind of groups he follows probably Anglican or Catholic ,etc ... But his conspiracy theory is religious and that what I thought honestly There is a racism of color why not ? This kind of humans I don't know what he gonna think about me as an Arabic / middle Eastern atheist If it was a hate of color ! I should paint myself then to be white ! Whatever , I think the mainstream media has a role on this and of course those dirty policies going on , It's pity and I know there is kind of satisfying when atheists hear about that even in the middle East but yeah It still dangerous for the whole world other than white .

David Killens's picture
A violent death is tragic, no

A violent death is tragic, no matter where, to whom, and what faith.

I feel great sadness when I learn about such events as Christchurch. I also feel the same deep pain when I learn about "collateral damage" in some refugee camp that was bombed.

liomem's picture
Because you're beautiful and

Because you're beautiful and a healthy human being , Other people don't feel the same ! Mental illness of course has a role on this kind of events , I think even If you didn't criticize your inherent ideology you gonna have some sort of schizophrenia or any other psychic thing , Religions are so old and irrational thing

Randomhero1982's picture
I couldnt care if the

I couldnt care if the assailant was white, brown, pink, blue...etc... makes no difference to me!
Neither does the theological bent, philosophical or political view point...

To me its simply a completely arsehole thing to do!

No one has the right to take another's life, simple as that.

Who ever did it was the prime example of a total wanker.

Sorry for the expletives.

dogalmighty's picture
Sad that religion has

Sad that religion has furthered its death toll on humanity.

On a related story...the european union members have implemented a fee and paperwork requirement law for anyone outside of the union, to visit a union country...I believe it is a ten dollar fee with paperwork...within this law, is hidden right of refusal of entry to the country, at the discretion of the country, without reason. I hope you can see why I am attaching this.

Sheldon's picture
I read the unfolding news

I read the unfolding news this morning with growing horror. Words don't often fail me, but this is one of those rare occasions when I wish hell were not a fiction. 49 dead according to the latest reports, children among them, and every one leaving family behind to suffer the unimaginable loss.

I hope these cowards live a very long life, to realise in shame the bigoted cowardice of their actions, like the cretins who occasionally show up here, and think they can stir up hatred of all Muslims, because as atheists we don't share their beliefs.

My thoughts go out to their families and loved ones.

algebe's picture
The main shooter, Brenton

The main shooter, Brenton Tarrant, the shithead with the headcam, is an Australian. So from New Zealand's point of view, this rabid anti-migrant slime is himself a migrant.

Judging from the final words of his manifesto, he also appears to have religious delusions of himself as some kind of holy warrior.
“If I don’t survive the attack, goodbye, godbless and I will see you all in Valhalla!”

Valhalla for this twisted loon is going to be a small, crowded cell in a high-security prison in New Zealand.

SeniorCitizen007's picture
There is evidence that the

There is evidence that the shooter's path to this atrocity was initially sparked off by him listening to a post-war media interview of Sir Oswald Mosley. Mosley never gave up his conviction that the Jews were THE problem Britain faced. Tarrant substituted Muslims for Jews and set his plans in motion.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Fucking Turner Diaries

Fucking Turner Diaries bullshit.

watchman's picture
I had hoped that this

I had hoped that this abomination of an ideology had died chocking on its own bile in the sewers of Berlin in 1945 when the "ubber mench" of the Reichs Herren Volk ,the SS ,blew their own diseased brains out . But it appears to have somehow survived and slithered back into the daylight.....

Intriguing this "white supremacist " thing ....

This numpty's diatribe decries the invasion of "our lands" .... completly ignoring the somewhat bitter irony that (in this case) both his own country of origin ,Australia and the country he has chosen as the stage for his little passion play ,New Zealand .... are not actualy historically "our lands" in the view of the "white race". Indeed it is the whites who are the invaders here... 400 years ago there were no whites in Australasia ..... the white occupation of these lands only began with the"invasions" of the Dutch and English in the 1600's. Ask the Aboriginies.... ask the Maoris.

Then there is the case of Charles Martel ..... extolled as a great defender of "white europe" against the invading Arabs from North Africa. Yet this claim too is somewhat "off kilter".

Charles Martel was indeed a great commander and an able soldier . He did indeed engage and defeat the Arab incursion into Gaul (France) in 732 CE. However ,if we look a little deeper ,this Arab Invasion may not have been the great threat it is sometimes portrayed as. Indeed it has been discribed as no more that one of several raids of varying intensity. Also it seems the Arabs were allowed to withdraw with their loot as opposed to being beaten and chased from the field with great slaughter.

On further examination the career of Charles consits of multiple military campaigns against Neustria (Western France) ,Frisia (Holland) , Aquitain (South West France) , Saxons (North Germany) and Bavarians (Central Germany) as well as Burgundy (Central France).

Indeed it apears that this Icon of the white supremasists actually killed more "white europeans" than he did Arabs.

algebe's picture
@Watchman: Ask the

@Watchman: Ask the Aboriginies.... ask the Maoris

True enough. But the outcomes have been very, very different. New Zealand has made huge efforts to redress treaty violations committed by the British crown. The Maori language and culture are thriving, and there have been numerous Maori senior politicians. Several Maori tribes operate major business enterprises. The state of the Aborigines in Australia couldn't be more different. They weren't even recognized as citizens of their own land until 1967. They continue to suffer dire poverty.

On terrorism in New Zealand:
Before this horror, the most notable terrorist incident in New Zealand was the bombing and sinking of the Rainbow Warrior in Auckland harbor in 1985, which resulted in one death. That wasn't the work of Islamist extremists or the IRA. It was done by agents of the French bloody government. The arrogant pricks thought New Zealand was a backwater populated by yokels, but the New Zealand public and police force soon caught and convicted the bungling French agents.

With French bombers and Russian poisoners, who needs terrorists?

Sky Pilot's picture
Were any of you aware of this

Were any of you aware of this incident in the Philippines this past January?

"Philippine Church Bombing Kills 20 After Vote for Muslim Governance
Cathedral attack injures 100 on the island of Jolo, home to Abu Sayyaf terrorists."

"Filipino Christians are mourning at least 20 churchgoers and soldiers as martyrs after terrorists attacked a Catholic cathedral during Sunday mass in a heavily Muslim island in the southern Philippines.

Two bombs went off at Our Lady of Mount Carmel in Jolo within minutes, the first blasting through rows of pews and the second shooting from the entrance to kill scrambling parishioners as well as the guards positioned outside to protect the church week after week."
https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2019/january/philippines-jolo-cat...

Compare and contrast the coverage between the NZ and Philippine incidents and you may discover how your opinions are being manipulated.

algebe's picture
The local rugby team in

The local rugby team in Christchurch is called the Canterbury Crusaders (Canterbury being the name of the region around the city). Their matches are preceded by horsemanship displays by knights in armor wearing Crusader regalia. There has been little controversy over the team's name in the 23 years since it was adopted. But now they are talking about changing it to avoid offending Muslims.

Already the pieces of the killer's plan are coming together. As liberals scramble to appease Muslims, there'll be a conservative backlash, and the friction will heat up the conflict. I wish there was a way to short-circuit this coward's foul design.

What everyone needs to remember is that the tragic deaths of of those people do not add a single speck of justification to Islam as a religious and political force. As a human being, I feel profound empathy for those whose lives or loved ones were taken away, but I still reject Islam as much as I reject white supremacism and Nazism, etc.

rat spit's picture
As a confessed nihilist, this

As a confessed nihilist, this event doesn’t effect me. I have Iranian friends who aren’t Islamic. In fact, my friend who has been here in Canada for about five years claims that the whole country (of Iran) are more or less non-believers. It’s the government that imposes the religion. Regardless of the “Islamic Radicalist” stigma, I’m sure there are many good muslims who simply wish to practice their faith - and surely those who died during this event were murdered without cause or justification.

Anyway. When this type of “Christian” terrorism finally comes to mosques in my home town, I might start feeling what Algebe is feeling.

I don’t condone killing of any type. It doesn’t seem rational - I mean unless you have a good reason - like someone is attacking you or someone you know - I could go on.

I found a couple of interesting Wiki pages

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

Versus

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

No winners here in this situation. As the Buddha is known for saying, “Violence is never stopped by further violence”.

- rat spit

Cognostic's picture
As the Buddha is known for

As the Buddha is known for saying, “Violence is never stopped by further violence”.

The myth of “Nonviolent Buddhism,” A book you should surely read. When Buddhism came to the West it was whitewashed. All the years of wars and violence were eliminated.

As some of the most influential Mahayana sutras . . . suggest, “killing” is simply a meaningless misconception from an “enlightened” viewpoint (since neither the killer nor the killed have any independent existence) and may be undertaken if intended to prevent a worse misfortune, and done with the best objectives in mind.

“the Buddhist emphasis on ‘good intention’ opened the door for a broad spectrum of violence legitimization, including both war and in criminal justice.”

Zen at War, Brian Daizen Victoria’s 1998 book that explored how closely much of Zen Buddhism aligned itself with Japanese militarism leading up to World War II.

similar logic was also applied to the cruelest forms of criminal justice utilized by secular rulers in Mongolian society after the conversion to Gelug-pa Buddhism in late sixteenth century. Executions by spine-breaking and slicing into pieces [as well as torture, were] justified as long as they were conducted by “Dharma-protecting” authorities with the “compassionate” intention of purifying society. Violence ended up being justified as long as it was seen as the best way of realizing rulers’ good intentions in what was perceived as an inherently violent world.

https://ips-dc.org/et_tu_buddha_rationalizing_violence_in_buddhism/

Like the Bible, you must separate anything good out of the practice. Buddhist Koans can offer wonderful insights. Buddhist meditation can lead one to self exploration and relaxation. Buddhist dogma, karma and rebirth are responsible for cast systems. death and destruction.

ANY RELIGION MINDLESSLY ADHERED TO LEAVES THE BELIEVER SUBJECT TO CONTROL BY THE FAITH.

J. Krishnamurti, on Buddhism might burst your bubble. "Why go through all the learning just to throw it away at the end? J's stuff is not much better. He was the "Love heals all" guru of my childhood. I changed the word "Love" to Acceptance each time he used it and found his stuff quite good.

rat spit's picture
Long story short. I’m a

Long story short. I’m a subscriber to Theravada Buddhism. Mahayana is a - well ... I don’t agree with it. Let’s leave it at that. The only Bodhisattva was Jesus Christ - so the religion has some truth to it. But to subscribe to a religion that tells you to “restrain your self” from entering Nirvana - so that you can be a messiah to all beings. Just grandiose delusion.

Theravada ... free your self from defilement.

That being said. There will be plenty of Theravada countries who have gone to war - but, me thinks, not in the name of Theravada.

Sky Pilot's picture
While this guy may sound like

While this guy may sound like a conspiracy nut he does make some interesting points about the whole game that is being played. Remember, some groups think in decades and centuries and not in seconds or minutes.

A TP on the Terror Attack in Christchurch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7mf4niAEO8&bpctr=1552874582

A TP on the Terror Attack in Christchurch, Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MRB0MwFFi8

Remember who and what caused all of the muslims to leave the Middle East and when their exodus started. Who will be the ultimate beneficiary of that?

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