The missionary mindset
Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
Log in or create an account to join the discussions on the Atheist Republic forums.
Homer, in a nutshell, your political system is broken. It is no longer "for the people" because it is now run by large corporations and billionaires who can afford buying out politicians. You are locked (by tradition) into a two party system, the result no viable third alternative and two parties who care little about the common man but just maintaining power.
I live in Canada, and up here, most do not vote on partisan lines but select the candidate with a respectable track record and who's platform is about solving problems.
We sure aren't perfect, but our system works a heck of a lot better than south of the border.
No disagreement from me there!
"and that religion and government are not bound together in the USA."
That is an unbelievable lie that flies in the face of facts.
Ok I stand corrected, maybe I should say there are lawful provisions that attempt to separate church and state in the US.
And please don't think I'm supporting someone pro slavery because I think Jefferson did a great job in his work. I know he owned and had all kinds of shenanigans with his slaves. But he did a great job with the separation, constitution, declaration, as President overall.
@Homer Re: "And please don't think I'm supporting someone pro slavery because I think Jefferson did a great job in his work. I know he owned and had all kinds of shenanigans with his slaves. But he did a great job with the separation, constitution, declaration, as President overall."
... *chuckle*... Ah, you finally tipped your hand and showed your cards. I knew it would happen eventually. No matter how good they think they are, nobody can keep up the charade indefinitely. So now that you have confirmed you are here just to troll for amusement, it is game on (well, at least until I get bored with you).... *impish grin*....
I'm honest in my explanations of how I view God, no matter how messed up that seems to you all, or myself sometimes.
I'm messing around with Dave here about the ties to slavery in another thread. I'm very willing to have fun, and be poked at. If that makes me a troll to you, then have at it. Just came across a place that seemed in need of someone that wasn't exactly like minded to hang around for awhile.
Different mindsets are fine with me. Plenty of different mindsets on this site. But at least the mindsets here are honest and more grounded in reality. But your "messing around" and dishonestly and intentionally ignoring and evading the realities people are attempting to relay to you are not looked upon very kindly around here. You are more than welcome to hang around and believe whatever you want. But purposely "messing around" and trying to play silly games does not shed a positive light upon your beliefs..... Nor on you as a person.
I don't think I'm trying to evade anything. I'll work on being a better replier.
Sorry to be a noodge:
." But your "messing around" and dishonestly and intentionally ignoring and evading the realities people are attempting to relay to you are not looked upon very kindly around here. '
I think that behaviour is also called 'trolling'
Hitler brought his nation back from a terrible depression and turned Germany into an industrial powerhouse. He built high speed roads across Germany, he built massive infrastructures that still serve the people and economy of Germany.
Does that make him a great man? Of course not, we should never examine anyone from just one perspective. And no one is exempt from critical examination.
Jefferson may have achieved great things, but he never let go of owning slaves.
@Homer Re: "Wholeheartedly agree."
Fascinating.... *look of wonder*... You agree with pretty much anything, it seems. Even when somebody calls you out and tells you the person you just expressed adoring admiration for was really a known proponent for slavery. Hmmmm.... In that case, try this on for size, Mr. I-love-and-agree-with-everybody....
Imagine you get home one day and get told your mother/daughter/sister/aunt (take your pick) was walking home from the store and got brutally raped by your neighbor's piece of shit free-loading son. Based on what I have seen from you so far, I imagine you would be honored to be the Best Man at their wedding when she is forced to marry the rapist. Because you are such a swell guy like that... *wink*.... *patting on shoulder*...
(Oh, by the way, just in case you didn't know, that is exactly what your god and your fruity bible teaches about female rape victims, Scooter.)
I said Jefferson was great with the documents he penned, we use them still. He was also a filthy sicko who had slaves. I thought I pointed that out. He wasn't a great man, his behavior with slaves was deplorable. I thought David was showing an example of Hitler of someone who did some good things for his people but was a piece of crap and I agreed with him.
@Hoover Re: Re: Your Jefferson explanation
Nice attempt at a dodge... (Not!) Now try answering the question I asked about female rape victims.
No, I don't support rape in any way.
@Homer Re: "No, I don't support rape in any way."
Excellent. That is good to know. Most good people do not condone rape. But you still are dodging (not very skillfully, mind you) the meat of the subject. Your bible is the "Word of God", and your god says a rape victim must marry the scum who raped her. And you are all goo-goo eyed about this very same supposedly "loving" god who provides you with "fruit". Do you not realize what that says about you? Goes something like this....
"Oh, sure, I know Joey rounds up stray puppies every day and beats the shit out of them with a broom handle. He's a real asshole for doing that. But he owns that fantastic bakery downtown that makes the BEST apple pie you have ever tasted, and he gives me one for free each week. So I think Joey is a great guy overall."
So, what is your excuse for what the bible teaches people in regards to rape. Or is that one of those details you prefer to ignore so that you can better enjoy your fruit?
I'm pretty sure I've reiterated at least 3 times in this forum that I don't believe the Bible to be the "Infallible Word of God".
@Dodger Re: "I'm pretty sure I've reiterated at least 3 times in this forum that I don't believe the Bible to be the "Infallible Word of God"."
That is not the question I asked. You're not very good at this, are you?.. *tilting head to one side*...
The old testament is the collection of thousands of years of an ancient people's legends, histories, laws and practices. It contains many bad laws and mistakes of those people. I do not believe the law about rape is the word of God. I said in my last post that I do not believe the Bible to be the "Infallible Word of God".
"Hitler brought his nation back from a terrible depression and turned Germany into an industrial powerhouse. He built high speed roads across Germany, he built massive infrastructures that still serve the people and economy of Germany.
Godwin's law? Already?
"Does that make him a great man? '
Well, from my perspective, yes, it certainly does. Same goes for Stalin, Mao and even Pol Pot. So too was Ramses the Great, Alexander The Great, Julius Caesar, the Emperor Ashoka, Genghis Khan and Napoleon Bonaparte . What these people were not necessarily was good men.
IF you accept the 'great man"view of history (which I do not as a general principle) I think greatness may be measured by the influence a person had on others .EG Genghis Khan killed so many people that his actions changed eco systems.
Governments and politics at amoral by their nature. They operate on one and only one principle "The ends justify the means." Yes, of course there are exceptions, but the rule holds true mostly I think
Addendum,: Just had a little think about this. I suspect my claim is unfalsifiable. Don't think I could prove it and do not believe it can be disproved .That means my claim becomes simply my opinion.
@Homer: I think it's great that people have the right to belong to whatever religion or belong to no religion and that religion and government are not bound together in the USA.
As an outsider looking in, I find that statement hard to support. Your president has religious advisers and prayer breakfasts. Every candidate gets asked about religion. You have a religious statement on your money. Religion seems to infect and influence your government at all levels from town councils up to (or perhaps down to) Congress. The impact appears to especially pernicious in education, particularly science education.
Of course things are different in Oz.
Our present PM is a happy clapper Pentacostal who prays in a crisis
Not long before him we had Tony Abbott, a common little man . Tony was chronically catholic and used his religious beliefs to postpone recognition of gay marriages
HOWEVER, it has long been taken for granted that elected members of the Australian Labor Party will probably be atheists . It's been so I think at least since WW2.
It's also perfectly usual for elected members of either party to be gay. Currently perhaps the most visible is Penny Wong, leader of the opposition in the Senate. Penny is gay, and married with a child.
--I won't even START on Don Dunstan. Gay as a lark and one of the most beloved politicians in the history of South Australia.
When will either an atheist or openly gay man or women be elected as US president?
About now I expect to find claims that christian in the US are persecuted . I find that even funnier than the claim that white men or all men are treated badly compared with women. --claims a which pop up in Oz from time to time.
Australia is by no means perfect. It's simply better than any other country I have visited. Although I admit I have not visited Denmark, Sweden or Norway.
HAVE been to Holland, which I loved. Seeing users shoot up at the local fountain was a bit disconcerting..They also have these women, dozens of 'em. They sit in windows modelling underwear. Fair dinkum, I thought the missus was going to drop her cheese roll.
Cranky47; Of course things are different in Oz.
They're different in New Zealand, too. Most politicians keep their beliefs to themselves. We had one openly catholic prime minister, Bill English, but he was an all-round idiot, so nobody was surprised. Funnily enough, the christian influence seems to be stronger on the left than on the right in New Zealand, with Methodists, Presbyterians, Anglicans, etc. pressuring the government to increase social spending. On the right the catholics and evangelicals seem to be focused mainly on what other people do in their bedrooms.
New Zealand's parliament still opens sessions with a prayer. Two years ago the Speaker of the New Zealand parliament decided that it should be a "secular prayer" (WTF?) and ordered the removal of all references to Jesus.
. "Two years ago the Speaker of the New Zealand parliament decided that it should be a "secular prayer" (WTF?) and ordered the removal of all references to Jesus."
The founders of Alcoholics Anonymous were two American, Christian alcoholics. They still do the same shit in AA . The12 step programme refers to 'a god of your understanding' and refers to one's 'higher power'.
My G.O.D was/is 'Group . Of . Drunks'
AA doesn't admit that MANY members are atheists. I found out be accident/. Whilst 'sharing' one day I mentioned in passing that there is on and only one requirement to belong to AA; A desire to stop drinking . That there is no rule about having to be a religious believer ,and that I for example am secular humanist. A LOT of blokes came up to me after the meeting, admitting that they too are atheists.
I understand Free Masons have a similar set up.
Sadly, it seems to me the unthinking classes feel threatened by atheists..
@Cranky47: AA and Free Masons
Also Rotary. It's nominally secular, but before every meal everybody recites the Rotary Grace (O God, and giver of all good. We thank thee for our daily food. May Rotary friends and Rotary ways. Help us to serve thee all our days).
It was all nuts to me. For food I'll pray to Allah, Jehovah, Zeus or Beelzebub. And the friends and activities (especially the polio eradication campaign) more than made up for the momentary inconvenience of mumbling doggerel. Apart from the grace, I never encountered any religious overtones .
I found the poem a bit offensive though. Who rhymes "food" with "good". "Food" rhymes with "rude", "crude", and of course "screwed". I'm sure I could compose a more memorable prayer with those words.
I need to rephrase that and talk about the design, not the twits who push and abuse the design. I don't support nor did I vote for that piece of work.
@Homer: Well Hi Goober,,,,,, I mean Homer.... It's great to see you still with us spouting your ignorant fucking nonsense. I think you have a right to belong to any dip fuck religion you want to and wouldn't it be great in the government would begin taxing Churches, stopping false advertising, holding them accountable for their claims, and shutting them down when they steal money from the poor for fuck little boys. It's a real shame our government protects Churches because in a fair country, NONE OF THIS SHIT WOULD BE GOING ON.
"Many of our nation’s churches can no longer afford to maintain their structures—6,000 to 10,000 churches die each year in America—and that number will likely grow."
There is LIGHT at the end of the tunnel! It's coming.
Maybe the world will get aligned to the way you want it!!
@Cognostic: There is LIGHT at the end of the tunnel! It's coming.
DO YOU SEE THE LIGHT?
@Homer: Looks that way, don't it! No more Churches robbing from the poor, taking advantage of the desperate, If you find yourself homeless or destitute you won't have to pray before someone feeds you a meal. Con men assholes with million dollar jets and mansions paid for by congregations can be locked away. But best of all, smiling idiots may wake up and smell the shit they have been wallowing in so that modern "religions" can take their places along side paganism, shamanism, animism and totemism,