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well in the case of Al Capone, all we did was take out the big wig and prevent a power vacuum (or so I've been told). Why not simply replicate that process with ISIS?? Surely the American scammers can out scam the Muslim ones?
I think that a military force is needed to be left there.
The Roman empire solved the problem already once when it was on the brink of economic collapse and civil wars, we should do the same with a little more finesse, given we have better funds, better technology, better knowledge.
Send and army hunt down and eradicate all hostiles, take all the texts which are fueling this war and leave them only with the pacifistic ones just like the Romans did.
Any groups that try to rebel are immediately terminated, and groups that promote peace are supported.
Then recruit those peace supporters as soldiers "of peace" and let them in control of their country after leaving their lands with proper education of how to manage it with western values.
"Remember what happened when the West left an empty vacuum in Iraq."
To avoid just that.
We have to accept the fact that reason cannot win this battle, only brute force will work to save more lives on the bigger picture.
Good luck selling that to the liberal majority of any western society, they are pretty damn stuck in cultural relativism, and will not take their head out long enough to recognize the looming threat of "radical"(read literal) Islam. Sorry, but I don't see even the American public supporting a prolonged effort in the middle east, we forgot how to fight in exchange for peace and now we are stuck trying to solve every problem with an olive branch instead of a gun.
The truth is that the leaders don't want to remove the problem, as long as there is a common enemy it is easier to get laws and make more money from the people.
The concept of demand and supply.
It is much easier to sell a drone when there is an enemy to spy on.
The question is, how many more people need to die before the leaders are forced to take action?
In the end it all depends on the people making enough pressure on their own leaders.
The average person does not care about other people being raped, tortured and murdered until it hits home.
So ISIS is actually hitting home so people start to wake up and see reality as it is.
I do not think they are doing enough though, i think this is just the tip of the iceberg, more deaths are to come unless action is taken.
Sorry, but I just don't think people have "woken up" yet, it will probably take a lot more before apologists shut the fuck up and society and large takes action.
Yes we agree.
Wait a moment, I am going to write that down, because that doesn't happen very often.
Many are already blaming the policies of the US for the attack. Then there's the "downtrodden Muslims" theme, in fact everything is responsible except Islam.
Goddamned progressive stack has turned otherwise normal people into Islamic apologists, I don't know how to fix it or if it even can be fixed, I expect any day now for a new book called "101 reasons why Islam isn't Islam".
........ Rome's expansionistic policies were one of the things that led to its fall.
actually when it stopped expanding it fell.
A fascist empire build on conquest, when the conquest stopped, corruption started to grow and that was when the roman empire started to fall.
It's a mess that we should NEVER have gotten involved in...this is going to be a war FOREVER, with no way out...and many of our military defense analysts are begining to echo the same sentiments...stating in todays paper that " years of tragic attacks like the one in Paris are almost inevitable, and there are no long term solutions." No one is going to change the mindset of a culture that is born and bred...again under the cloak of their religious beliefs, to promote terror and destruction. So, does this mean now that the U.S. will be in this war forever?? If we are going to once again get involved, and chance having our soldiers killed, we need to CLOSE our borders, and stop letting these creeps into our country...to NOT do that is undermining our own militarty...secondly, drop the atomic bomb, like we did in WWII, the whole place will be leveled...END OF STORY At least we'll get a break from these damn wars for quite a while!!
That's a good reason not to establish peace and order in the region, I suppose? The first and only thing in the short term is to end the civil war by whatever means, end IS and end the migration crisis to Europe. Without that nothing can happen.
The rest needs to be worked out. Just because you don't know how it would work doesn't mean it can't work.
@Nutmeg...
No ... just because it is difficult is not a good reason not to impose peace and order .... that is not what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is that exactly because it is so difficult and such a bloody mess that a clear idea of exactly what the required outcome is ,must be achieved BEFORE sacrificing more lives.
I'm sorry, I really don't agree. The war in Syria is a major crisis and needs to be stopped NOW. Once that's done and peace has been established, everyone can sit down and work out what that peace looks like.
@Nutmeg....
"I'm sorry, I really don't agree."
Please don't apologise.....its unnecessary.
"The war in Syria is a major crisis and needs to be stopped NOW"
No....the war in Syria WAS a major crisis ..... it is now bloody anarchy....and it stretches into Iraq .....too many participants with too many differing goals.
"needs to be stopped NOW"........agreed.........any ideas as to just how?
You say that once the fighting is stopped and peace has been established then "everyone can sit down and work out what that peace looks like."
So like what happened in Iraq..... because that worked so well.
No...far too vague.....and what happens if the proposed round table group decides that what is really required is Islamic State ?
Don't get me wrong...I tend to agree with almost all of your sentiments ...... BUT doing something ,anything ....just because something must be done ...is not going to provide a solution at this stage of the game.
There is the beginning - the beginning - of talks aimed at ending the war. For the first time the US, Russia, Europe and even Iran are getting together. Putin's intervention may prove critical. It needs real leadership on behalf of all those groups to achieve a solution.
Your parallel with Iraq is not valid: the peace was planned well before but mishandled.
Your suggestion that anyone is going to endorse IS is risible.
I've known many people like you who prevaricate, and miss the opportunity; the time to act is now.
Its clear that we are not going to agree on this.....
I really hope your faith in the proposed talks will be vindicated.....but I have my doubts.
The Sunni's will do what the Saudis tell them...the Shia will do what Iran tells them...the Russians will insist on Assad remaining....the US will insist on Assad going...most of the Europeans will agree anything that stems the refugee exodus...the French will want revenge ......the Kurds will demand a homeland....the Turks will veto a Kurdish homeland.... IS will reinforce its claim to Jihad , increase its recruits and fight anyone/everyone to the death......I'm sorry but I'm not seeing where peace will come from.
As to the parallel with Iraq ....I'd be obliged if you would produce your evidence for the "planned peace".
As to the endorsement of IS ...the point I was trying to make is that what the round table may arrive at may not be what you/the west may require...... lets say the Russians do insist on Assad remaining in charge.
I too have known many people like yourself who believe the "time to act is now"....when in almost all cases the real time to act is never NOW it can only ever be after you have thought about and considered the ramifications of your proposed actions .
...but as I said we're not going to agree so I'll leave it there for now and await events...
As far as Iraq was concerned, I was refering to the decision to give the reconstruction to the Pentagon instead of the State Dept. There were certainly plans there, whether they would have worked is a moot point.
Well, how long do you want to think about the ramifications? The was in Syria has been going on for 4 years now with collossal loss of life and destruction and the emergence of IS. How many more deaths, migrants and terrorist acts do you want before action is taken to end the war?
I have no problem with keeping Assad in power, we should never have intervened in Libya to get rid of Ghadaffi. Egypt is at least reasonably stable again.
the cambodian crisis was just as bad. non interventionism led to relative peace there (I'm cambodian)
As far behind as I am (wasent on the site when this event occurred) I must say I agree. In the words of John .F. Kennedy "Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." Note: I use this quote for its meaning. The pray part means nothing to me.
I stumbled upon a French memorial/solidarity demonstration in Washington Square Park today. People are really pissed about it here in NYC.
As with all terror attacks of this type it is who do we blame.
The attacks were carried out by muslims who are angry about the ethnic cleansing that was carried out in Palestine when the state of Israel was created.
The west helped the jews set up the state of Israel in response to the atrocities of the holocaust.
One of the reasons and excuses used by Hitler for the holocaust is that all jews were held responsible for the killing of jesus.
This was a position held by the roman Catholic Church until 1965. (Jewish Decide)
I know this is a simplistic view but it indicates how all religions have some responsibility when these terror attacks happen.
Maybe the correct retaliation is to bomb the Vatican.
Attachments
Attach Image/Video?:
I would not bomb the Vatican but surly go in guns blazing arresting everybody like the criminals they are.
Crime:
Disturbing the peace for some 2000 years.
Theft
Extortion
Accessory to rape and mistreatment of children.
Money laundering.
To name a few.
More here:
http://www.therichest.com/rich-list/most-shocking/the-9-most-shocking-cr...
Sill the only to blame is religion, since it is the only weapon of mass destruction that enables those abusers to create those problems on a massive scale.
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