Proof Eternalism is Correct

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Devans99's picture
Proof Eternalism is Correct

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Grinseed's picture
So, if we are all eternal

So, if we are all eternal beings, then we have had no temporal start, so we can't exist.

I prefer presentism where the past and future don't exist and the present is preminent. It messes with my head less than eternalism or block time where events supposedly have already taken place. From my viewpoint, the future simply hasn't happened and only exists in imagination and the past only exists in memories or the media, in one physical form or another, i.e. film, prose etc.

All the rest is mathematical mumbo jumbo wherein, with some effort, it can be proven that 1 +1 can equal 1 and where I live, really, it doesn't..

Perhaps you might be interested in Tralfamadorian perception, from Slaughterhouse Five, by Vonnegut, which is pure eternalism. I need to alert you to the fact its just a fiction.

Devans99's picture
We have a temporal start; we

We have a temporal start; we are eternal in the sense that past present and future are all equally real.

Presentism is the opposite of eternalism so my proof disproves presentism. So does Einstein's relativity.

Grinseed's picture
Not according to Popper and

Not according to Popper and me.

Grinseed's picture
The three stages of time are

The three stages of time are not equal. The future is unformed, the present is constantly pre-eminent and the past is past. And we are not eternal.

Randomhero1982's picture
Care to prove when/where time

Care to prove when/where time started and provide a citation?

Devans99's picture
Time slows in the presence of

Time slows in the presence of gravity. There was an infinite amount of gravity at the Big Bang singularity so time would of stopped.

NewSkeptic's picture
You try to pretend to be so

You try to pretend to be so intelligent with your proof, which as already pointed out is just a series of blind assertions, then you type,

"time would of stopped",

which really gives you away. It's not just a typo, I think you really believe "of" is correct there.

Randomhero1982's picture
Please provide evidence that

Please provide evidence that there is evidence for a singularity of infinite density.

As far as I'm aware the cosmic microwave background is the best example of evidence, in that the universe expanded from a very hot and dense state... not infinite.

arakish's picture
Dan: so time would of stopped

Dan: so time would of stopped.

Actually time would become infinite. Just like the gravity, density, energy, and mass. All infinite. Thus, the universe has always existed. >:P


Devans99's picture
Actual Infinity is impossible

Actual Infinity is impossible:

There is no quantity X such that X > all other quantities because X +1 > X

CyberLN's picture
It seems, Dan, you have a

It seems, Dan, you have a habit of ‘proving’ things via your own presumptions.

Cognostic's picture
One blind assertion after

One blind assertion after another.
You might as well assert bananas are the rulers of the universe because they are the only eternal thing we know of.

Devans99's picture
Less handwaving please.

Less handwaving please. Please indicate which part of the argument you disagree with out how

arakish's picture
ALL OF IT!! No hand waving

ALL OF IT!! No hand waving needed.


Cognostic's picture
arakish: Once again I have

arakish: Once again I have understated my position. I thought the banana thing was clear. LOL

arakish's picture
Actually, your banana thing

Actually, your banana thing was quite clear. I just brain-farted the first thing that popped into me head.


Sapporo's picture
It wasn't falsifiable in the

It wasn't falsifiable in the last thread, and it isn't falsifiable in any future thread either.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
*sings "Dan, Dan, the eternal

*sings "Dan, Dan, the eternal man, nobody thinks like eternal Dan, can"* .......and as original.

TheBlindWatchmaker's picture
"It is a capital mistake to

"It is a capital mistake to theorize in advance of the facts. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts".

Sapporo's picture
Dan: If... If.

Dan: If...


Randomhero1982's picture


Sapporo's picture


Define "Time".
Define "Eternal".
Define "Timeless".
Define "Existence"

Sapporo's picture
I'm not convinced that time

I'm not convinced that time even need exist as an actual thing, which might sound deluded. Time could just be our way of visualizing what we believe to be a sequence of events from one state to another. Can we really say it exists as a dimension?

As has already be pointed out to you numerous time-s, if processes have happened eternally, then there is no reason for time to have a start, nor is sensical to say that there was a time with no time which led up to a time with time which is now eternal. Without time, it is incomprehensible to say any thing exists, and ultimately, in order to act outside time without somehow engaging in a process.

LogicFTW's picture

I have been saying this for a while. Time is simply a human made concept that is a measuring tool measuring events to other events. A very useful concept and measuring tool, but still just that. Not a real "thing" for the universe. Time started as humans began to use the measuring tool, and stops when humans go extinct.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Dan - There was an infinite

Dan - There was an infinite amount of gravity at the Big Bang singularity...

You just spent pages arguing there is no such thing as infinities, just to throw that out when it became inconvenient for your arguments?

Dan - the impossibility of the actually infinite I have proved

Dan - actual infinity does not occur in reality

Dan - Infinity is not a quantity


Attach Image/Video?: 

Devans99's picture
Well thats the singularity I

Well thats the singularity I'm talking about; it predicts an infinite amount of gravity, but in reality it was some very large finite number; we need a theory of quantum gravity to explain exactly what happened...

Another proof that time is finite:

A moment cannot of occurred infinity long ago
Because there is no way for the effects of that moment to get to today (-oo + 1 = -oo)
So all moments happened finitely long ago

Randomhero1982's picture
The actual "singularity" at t

The actual "singularity" at t=0 is not the only possibility and does not have direct experimental/observational support

Cognostic's picture
No one has to prove your

No one has to prove your inane assertions wrong. Anyone can flap their tongues and say stupid shit. If you want to be taken seriously, you must prove your assertion to be right. correct, and true. They are true because you think they are true is a definition of inane.

arakish's picture
@ OP

@ OP

"The present is riding the waves of the past into an indeterminable future."
"The past is gone and never existed, the present is not occurring since it is only a visualization, and the future never arrives."

Something I said in a high school philosophy class about 45 years ago.

"Time makes of us all, a prisoner of the present, forever transitioning from our own past, into an unknown future."

Something Neil deGrasse Tyson said in a lecture in 2004.


arakish's picture
Dan: actual infinity does not

Dan: actual infinity does not occur in reality

Yes it does. Ever heard of Benoit Mandelbrot? Fractal Geometry?



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