Proof that morality can only come from society.
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valiya s sajjad " Let me also get one more clarification from you: Do you assert that theism makes a person immoral?"
Is it moral to marry then rape a 9 year old girl? Was it ever moral? Do you think a 9 year old child can give consent to a sexual relationship?
This was thought moral by the most revered man in Islam, he was considered something more than human, God's last and most important prophet. You'd think a moral deity and his most important prophet would know this was an appalling act of rape against a child. why didn't they know this, or did they just ignore it?
"Muhammad was married to thirteen women, including eleven at one time. He relegated them to either consecutive days or (according to some accounts) all in one night. He had ***sex with a 9-year-old girl*** and married his adopted son's wife (after arranging a quick divorce). On top of that, Muhammad had a multitude of slave girls and concubines with whom he had sex - sometimes on the very days in which they watched their husbands and fathers die at the hands of his army."
Is that your idea of objective morality?
Let's take a closer look at this "objective morality" shall we?
Islam is a morally bankrupt and unethical ideology. Slavery, raping slave girls, owning slaves, murdering infidels, killing apostates of Islam, selling boys and women as trophies of war, looting and pillaging the property of murdered infidels, sharing the booty obtained from the sale of boys and women and the proceeds of looting with ALLAH - Himself, the subjugation and beating of women, martyrdom for those who kill and are killed for ALLAH, a depraved Paradise filled with virgins who re – generate as virgins after sex as the sex slaves of the killers of Islam – these are just some samples of utterly unethical and evil teachings in the Quran
QURAN - 70:22-30: "Not so the worshippers, who are steadfast in prayer, who set aside a due portion of their wealth for the beggar and for the deprived, who truly believe in the Day of Reckoning and dread the punishment of their Lord (for none is secure from the punishment of their Lord); ***who restrain their carnal desire (save with their wives and their slave girls, for these are lawful to them:***
valiya s sajjad
"You said: “You think a 9 year old girl has "come of age",
Yes. Aisha (the prophet’s wife in question) herself thinks so. What more do you want?"
>>I think this is the end of any pretence you have any kind of grasp of morality, or even basic human decency, objective or otherwise.
Given the disgusting justifications and defences made recently in this thread, and the asinine assertion that the rape of a nine year old girl by a 40 year old man not only represents objective morality, but has the only claim to it. I thought this from the late author and polemicist Christopher Hitchens was apropos.
Enjoy...You're looking at 38 mins in...
Those who cite Stalinism as an indictment of atheism should take a look at this very brief and perfectly weighted refutation of that asinine claim, in this video of the late great Christopher Hitchens.
At best, your sense of morality comes from your conscience. At worst, it comes from others without any level of introspection.
Your conscience comes from being able to sense pain and empathize with others. Senseless pain is the greatest evil.
I agree with this, though I do think we have an innate sense of right and wrong. Of course we are fallible evolved primates, so this alone is never going to be sufficient. We must use our evolved reason to best decide our morals.
As you say we must examine our own conscionce to do this. Simply becoming indoctrinated automatons to archaic superstitious dogma is not moral at all. As we can see from some of the recent posts, claims for objective morality being delivered by ancient texts claimed as divine diktat are fallacious without the ability to assess whether these are moral, and if we have that ability we don't need our morality dictated to us.
Quite obviously if that "divine diktat" has its adherents claiming it is moral to rape children, for no rational halfway decent persons thinks a child of 9 can give consent, then that demonstrates that they have no grasp of what morality means, objective or otherwise.
It can never be right to cause avoidable suffering in others. The degree to which we are morally culpable for our actions must surely be intrinsically linked to the extent to which we are responsible for causing suffering in others, and how far we can reasonably be expected to go to avoid causing suffering.