Religious fundamentalist brain damaged?

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ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
I'm not ignoring you; I'm

I'm not ignoring you; I'm just not sure how to respond. Did you not look at the OP's paper which is the sole purpose of this thread:

"Evolutionary psychology explains the appeal of religious fundamentalism in terms of social functional behavior, since it promotes coherence and predictability among individuals within religious groups."

The authors themselves cite their own reference: (McCullough and Willoughby, 2009)

Sheldon's picture
I get the impression he

I get the impression he ignores ANYTHING he finds too awkward to address. Expansive posts are cherry picked or ignored completely, and always in an ad hoc fashion, but I never get the impression it's simple pragmatism as he is obviously outnumbered on here.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Sheldon

@ Sheldon

It looks like I am going to have to dust off my old sheepskin and do some catching up. Just as I was enjoying reading about 2nd Century christians and their fragmentation of stories, worship, influences and changes to the texts they favored. Fascinating.

Ah well needs must when the cherry pickers drive, see you in a day or so.

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
I ignore things that seem

Sheldon,

I ignore things that seem spoken impulsively and without thought. For example, when you first said fundamentalism is pernicious, I asked in what sense you meant it because it seemed clear you were diverging from the conversation; which revolved around the psychological effects of fundamentalism, and whether it damages a child's development. You gave a half-baked response, but it confirmed my suspicion.. So I responded paraphrasing the studies own words, that fundamentalist beliefs are not pathological and they are not psychologically damaging.

Now, to address your statement that, "A literal interpretation of koranic or biblical texts is self evidently pernicious." I, and most Christians I know, read the Bible literally; I've never met someone that reads the Bible like its Animal Farm. Yet, most Christians would disagree with your accusations of what a literal interpretation means.

Reading something literally still requires interpretation, and you seem to think it doesn't. There's no way to bypass the interpretive process because that's how the brain works. Exchange text messages with somebody for some time, and you'll eventually come to realize how two people can read the same message literally, yet interpret vastly different meanings.

So no, reading any body of work literally is not psychologically damaging, And if doing so makes someone turn violent or racist, then at that point it has become damaging.

Sheldon's picture
" Yet, most Christians would

" Yet, most Christians would disagree with your accusations of what a literal interpretation means."

Hilarious, and you accuse me of posting half baked claims.
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"Reading something literally still requires interpretation, "

So it literally doesn't require interpretation at all then, or am I interpreting that incorrectly?

You are funny.
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"I ignore things that seem spoken impulsively and without thought. "

Nope, you ignore things that don't fit your bias and beliefs. However feel free to give some examples of scientific facts you dispute that don't in any way contradict any aspect off your religious beliefs.
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"you first said fundamentalism is pernicious, I asked in what sense you meant it because it seemed clear you were diverging from the conversation; "

What I meant is fundamentalism is pernicious, a self defining statement. It was apropos as an analogous comparison because you were talking about imaginary unethical practices you insisted were imminent for some undefined reason, in the post I'd responded to.
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"fundamentalist beliefs are not pathological and they are not psychologically damaging."

Another straw man argument, as I never claimed they were, there are other ways that things can be harmful, why this simple and obvious point needs to be extrapolated for you I don't know.
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"So no, reading any body of work literally is not psychologically damaging,"

.....and another straw man, as I never claimed it was "psychologically damaging".
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Both bible and koran contain narratives that endorse pernicious ideas, these include (but are not limited to) homophobia, slavery, murder, rapine, ethnic cleansing, theft from and sex trafficking of war victims. These are literal texts, and yes someone can try and rationalise them by interpreting them in such a way that they end up claiming the opposite of what the text literally says, we've all seen you exhibit such bias for instance with the unequivocal biblical endorsements of slavery, but I fail to see what that has to do with them being pernicious when taken and taught (especially to children) literally, which is the very definition of fundamentalism.

literal
adjective
taking words in their usual or most basic sense without metaphor or exaggeration.

fundamentalism
noun
a form of a religion, especially Islam or Protestant Christianity, that upholds belief in the strict, literal interpretation of scripture.

Here's one example

Leviticus 18:22 English Standard Version (ESV)
22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

Fundamentalism teaching that as literally true is demonstrably pernicious.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
Something we have all

Something we have all speculated about and known anecdotally...and now its been confirmed.

I like science.

Cognostic's picture
I am so glad I clicked on

I am so glad I clicked on this. I work with Christians. This is going to get posted all over my space at the office.

LogicFTW's picture
@Cognostic

@Cognostic

I am glad you and others found my original post useful.

I am too blown away. I could factually argue with a religious fundamentalist they may have diagnosable brain damage.

MCDennis's picture
Theists are delusional

Theists are delusional

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
So, as the honorary

So, as the honorary psychologist of the forum, let me unpack the study lol:

1. First of all, the study is not about religious fundamentalists having brain damage. Instead, it explores the effects that brain damage has on religious fundamentalism. Always remember that brain damage is the patron saint of psychology and neuroscience. By looking at what goes wrong when the brain is damaged, we can guess what that region does when it works normally. So, think of this study more like an exploration into what the vmPFC and dlPFC does in a normal brain, as viewed through the lens of fundamentalism..

2. The second important thing to understand are all the key players and their definitions. In psychology, whenever you’re talking about something such as fundamentalism, you need a way to define and measure it. In this study, they defined fundamentalism using a 10-question survey, such as, “Is it more important to be a good person than to believe in God and the right religion.” The other two players in the study were “Openness” and “Cognitive Flexibility.” Openness was measured with a personality test, and cognitive flexibility with a sorting task.

Never assume to know what terms like these mean until you looked how the study defines them. Scientific language isn't the same as political language. They’re basically viewing fundamentalism, not as right or wrong, but as the tendency to want to stay the same; a trait that could apply to many things from religion to sports.

3. The affected locations: One is in the bottom (vmPFC) the other on the top (dlPFC) of the frontal lobe. If you’ve heard of Phineas Gage, the rod that pierced him destroyed most of his vmPFC. Some of the changes he’s famous for having, were becoming irresponsible, inconsiderate, and indecisive. Why? Because one of the trademarks of vmPFC damage is lack of impulse control. So, a person with this damage is still reasonable, can solve problems, and can think theoretically, but for some reason cannot apply it to practical life situation, they may go gamble their life away. It ruins a person’s emotional control, but not their cognitive functions. Our emotions are very important for many things, particularly for moral judgments. Have you heard of the famous trolley experiment, where you push a fat guy unto the rails? People without damage are reluctant to push the guy, and have their vmPFC light up. But people with damage are not affected by the negative emotions associated with pushing the person, so have no problems doing it to save lives.

That's why your study mention that people with vmPFC damage, aremore likely to judge extreme behaviors as more acceptable, so they're more prone to see fundamentalist views as less radical..

4. The study is looking at how damage to vmPFC and dlPFC affects openness and cognitive flexibility, with the assumption that these traits play a role in fundamentalist beliefs. But rest assured that damage to these areas affects many more things, the lack of openness will display across the board.

5. Concluding thoughts: Never view brain damage as a guide for right or wrong, because you seem to be stigmatizing fundamentalist beliefs, on account that a person becomes prone to it when damaged in a specific area. Brain damage can produce a thousand different behavioral changes. A tumor in just the right spot can make someone want to go to Hollywood to become a star, but that does not imply that only a brain damaged person would ever go to Hollywood to become a star. I've even come across studies correlating autism and atheism. So always think like a psychologist when you read these studies.

Sheldon's picture
You're quite obviously biased

You're quite obviously biased Breezy, I'm happy enough to read the original objective research, and their findings without your theistic interpretation.

Sapporo's picture
If a belief is wrong, does

If a belief is wrong, does pathologizing it tell you anything new?

CyberLN's picture
Does anyone recall electing

Does anyone recall electing John as the honorary psychologist of the forum?

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
Those who don't vote don't

Those who don't vote don't count. I'm elected by default since I have no competition.

CyberLN's picture
That would suppose an

That would suppose an election was held. Please let us know, when was that?

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ CyberLN

@ CyberLN

Since when has Breezy displayed any honor?

CyberLN's picture
Well, that’s the 64 thousand

Well, that’s the 64 thousand dollar question, sir.

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