Same Sex Wedding Cake Case Reaches Supreme Court

55 posts / 0 new
Last post
mbrownec's picture
@ Algebe

@ Algebe

Fraternity is incompatible with freedom.

If that is truly the case, mankind is doomed. Globally, we are where we are today due to "dick measuring" individualism without attention to the needs, desires, aspirations and dreams of ALL mankind as a global community.

If never-ending conflict is as good as it gets, let the nukes begin falling. It's the bountiful harvest of the seeds we (mankind) have planted for eons. Let's get this gig over with. Maybe mankind will get it right next time around.

By the way, did you read the part of my prior post in which I stated that I do NOT agree with law-imposed equality and fraternity? (Not to mention that it would be an impossibility anyway.)

I do not want my prior posts to be misunderstood. I value the full development and expression of the individual. However, it's all for naught without a community to share and express it with.

“Anarchism, to me, means not only the denial of authority, not only a new economy, but a revision of the principles of morality. It means the development of the individual as well as the assertion of the individual. It means self-responsibility, and not leader worship.”

― Voltairine de Cleyre

Regarding religion, I agree with you that religion is a major enemy of liberty, etc. However, I also recognize that religion is simply a "tool" of the State to keep the masses controlled, submissive, and obedient.

LogicFTW's picture
Despite the fact, that: baser

Despite the fact, that: baser human tendency and motivations tends to win out a lot, I like this life, I enjoy life despite all the flaws, I am glad I am here, even if there are large groups of people I do not agree with. I have figured out pretty well how to have a good life, and set my self up so my rights to enjoy a good life are not stripped from me.

If the nukes gotta fall, can they fall after I die of hopefully, old age?

I feel we humans while still full of conflict, have gotten better. I personally have never known war, most everyone I know is the same way unless they signed up to join the military. As a percentage of population, those involved in war is way down compared to the historical average. The middle east has been blood soaked by "differences" for millennia it is awful, whole lot of religion to blame too. But most of the rest of the world knows peace, and has known peace for going on two + generations at least on their homeland.

I do worry about the future, but so far so good.

LogicFTW's picture
I would love, love a world

I would love, love a world where everyone just treated each other with the respect everyone deserves. I would happily work towards that end. See my post above, upon further reflection and discussion I changed my tune. Like I said in the beginning I was not sure where I stood on all this.

LogicFTW's picture
Perhaps I should read up on

Perhaps I should read up on this and get the full story. I am normally a lgbtq rights kind of guy, and I understand that they need all the help and support they get and I really want the best for all people including lgbtq.

But as an atheist I always struggled a bit, on the right for people to demand certain services from people that may not agree with them especially those with religious/culture connotations. Sure, there should be no discrimination in getting a job, or buying groceries at store or other critical things. But you can buy a cake many places, if a cake store does not want to sell you a wedding cake because you are gay and they found out, that is okay? They could get a cake somewhere else? It is the stupid store owners loss of business and reputation?

I could maybe understand if they live in a remote area, and they were the only game in town making wedding cakes in a 4 hour radius there may be a case there. Like I said I need to read up on it more to pass judgement. I feel if I was the owner of the cake shop and I had a mortal fear of red head people, I should have the right to refuse service to them, especially if there is a competing cake store down the street that does not have the same irrational fear. I am just giving up business to support my irrational fear.

I would even go a step further, that if a particular religious group did not like lgbtq people that they did not have to by law perform the wedding rites for them in their church, they can refuse to do so. The lgbtq couple should not have anything to do with that church anyways. They can always perform the rites in a different location administered by a willing person. In most states to be legally recognized as married, all you do is have to sign a marriage certificate and turn it in. Why couples demand religious services from a religious/culture group that dislikes lgbtq has always struck me as odd, and then they turn around and demand it?

Seriously though, I am pro LGBTQ and feel these people need all the support they can get, they often times have terrible experiences in the hands of bigoted people. I personally feel they should join us on the atheist side and abandon that silly religion that talks about legal right and obligation for others to murder and torture lgbtq people.

Also why could they not just get a friend to order and pick up the cake? How did the cake store place know the buyers were gay? How would they prevent a friend ordering a cake in their stead? There are solutions that do not involve the supreme court.

MCDennis's picture
You wrote: "They could get a

Logic for TW, you wrote: "They could get a cake somewhere else." Black Americans in 1960 could get lunch somewhere other than the Woolworth store lunch counter in Greensboro, North Carolina but they chose to sit in to protest because Woolworths was wrong and because discrimination is wrong... just like the cake store is wrong.

LogicFTW's picture
It is a good point, someone

It is a good point, someone refusing to sell a cake to someone because of their sexual preference is wrong. But taking the case all the way to the supreme court?

Maybe I am just in a lot of ways a pacifist, I look for solutions to problems rather then kicking it up to the supreme court. I fully admit I do not know the full situation but if I was the gay couple that was refused cake service, I would of looked for a solution, get the cake from somewhere else, and let everyone know that cared that the cake salesman was bigoted and they should avoid giving the guy business. You vote most strongly with your wallet, and if you can get the entire community in on it, that can do real damage. Of course if you live in a community full of anti lgbtq, it might be time to move if possible.

As an atheist I avoid very religious oriented organizations that actively get involved in politics and negatively effect peoples lives, and giving them my dollars. I never shop at hobby lobby (no real loss there, the company is horrible on many levels) I also avoid chik-fil-a (just to name two well known national stores) And I tell others why I avoid them. It may not amount to much, but I feel that is the best way to go about protesting a business that does practices I do not agree with.

I also keep my atheism close to my chest, vast majority of everyone I meet have no idea. I feel the same can be true of sexual preference. The people that matter to me know that I am atheist, but the cake vendor certainly does not. And I feel no need to parade my atheism in front of a cake seller, I can get my cake just fine, no need to pick a fight. There is a small family owned kosher bakery (not politically active,) near where I live, some of their stuff is the best around. I definitely do not look the part, but I buy their stuff on occasion, they have no idea I am atheist, and they happy sell to me. I do not agree with the religious aspect, but I do enjoy a good pastry if a bit expensive.

MCDennis's picture
LogicforTW: You wrote... why

LogicforTW: You wrote... why could they not just get a friend to order and pick up the cake? Why didn't black Americans ask a white friend to pick up their lunch from the Woolworth's lunch counter in Greensboro in 1960; how would the Woolworth's know the buyers were black?

if we believe in equal rights, discrimination is wrong.

Seaofmadness's picture
Think the Christians ignorant

Think the Christians ignorant bigots and detest their actions until your heart's content. It's still their right as a private company to refuse service to anyone for any reason. Support freedom. Support the freedom of Christians to be ignorant bigots, and support the rights of others to bring their name to shame via free speech. I'm right, so get over it MCD.

algebe's picture
I agree with Sea of Madness.

I agree with Sea of Madness.

If you value freedom and freedom of speech, you have to defend those values for everyone, even if you abhor the way some people exercise them. Christians have a god-given (and constitutional) right to be idiots.

mbrownec's picture
@ Algebe

@ Algebe

If you value freedom and freedom of speech, you have to defend those values for everyone, even if you abhor the way some people exercise them.

Totally agree. At least for me, practicing this truth on a consistent basis is challenging ... especially towards certain groups/beliefs that I find particularly offensive or ignorant.

“If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.”

― Noam Chomsky​

TIME MAN's picture
Sea of Madness, GOD exists,

Sea of Madness, GOD exists, its provable scientifically. You are 100 percent wrong and I can prove it.

TIME is; Physical measure of SPACE occupied by material MATTER existing in TIME, the continuum. YOU, are a fixed point in time.

My formulation will allow anyone to prove their existence as an INTELLIGENT BEING EXISTING in the UNIVERSE in TIME, the continuum.
OBJECTIVE reality is required and 4 conditions must exist 1 a fact of living 2 a fact of objective reality 3 a state of living 4 a state of objective reality.
Prove your existence. You are 100 percent scientifically wrong about GOD unless you can account for SPACE TIME and MATTER better that me. Intellectual property of MICHAEL ALAN CHAPMAN CHAPMANMetaphysics

MCDennis's picture
God exists? Great. Prove it

God exists? Great. Prove it

MCDennis's picture
Sea of Madness, you wrote:

Sea of Madness, you wrote: "get over it" I have a question: Is that what you are going to tell your daughter when she becomes the victim of sexual discrimination?

Sky Pilot's picture
Situations like this can get

Situations like this can get out of hand in a flash. The discriminated person might be a psycho and come back and shoot up the place and burn it down. Or he could walk in and throw acid in the person's face. Not everyone is as nice and sane as we are.

TIME MAN's picture
Did you hear about the

Did you hear about the beautiful young girl in England that had her face burned with acid by a person who did not like two young girls enjoying their freedom in the WEST. Luckily her cousin did not suffer the same fate. People have freewill. God gave that to you to go through life discriminating right from wrong. Do right, your going in the right direction. Just think if it was your daughter who might never see again??? How many surgeries? MAN is MANS problem, you blame RELIGION and GOD. Religion has issues, but God does not.

TIME MAN's picture
Think of Hell like this, your

Think of Hell like this, your dead, body is 6 feet under. Jesus asks, yes or no, you pick no. He says OK, you had the beautiful gift of freewill in a human body choose, then you do and make the wrong choice, he has no use for a thinker like that. He will seal your memories of every single little thing that disturbs you, that you don't like, the music, the politics, the personalities, the bad smells, the sights, then he's going to tee you up like a golf ball, get out his 1 iron, triangulate the perfect shot to miss any material matter in space and TEE OFF ON YOU. Those thoughts and feelings forever.Your in PHYSICAL HELL now, don't choose PSYCHICAL HELL!!! You are not even as significant as a grain of sand on earth, your a piece of dander in the universe. Don't believe me, just wait and see. Michael.

MCDennis's picture
I don't think that hell

I don't think that hell exists. Do you? if so, prove it or troll away

biggus dickus's picture


LogicFTW's picture
Agree, *YAWN*. Time Man's

Agree, *YAWN*. Time Man's post about heaven/hell is a derivation of: Pascal's wager. Which has been so thoroughly demolished most apologist 'xtians quickly learn to never use it.

MCDennis's picture
We don't believe in jesus, or

We don't believe in jesus, or beautiful gifts, or hell or heaven. If you do, prove it or just troll away

TIME MAN's picture
To ignore is the root of

To ignore is the root of ignorance. Michael Alan Chapman

MCDennis's picture
Quote: "Your religious

Quote: "Your religious beliefs are your business. If you use them as justification to discriminate against others, don’t be upset when others decide you’re an asshole."

Seaofmadness's picture
TIME MAN, take a sedative.

TIME MAN, take a sedative.

Harry33Truman's picture
The fist rule of capitalism

The fist rule of capitalism is "the money is always right." If these people don't understand that, then why sue them? With business sense like that they'll be out of business in a matter of days. If some christian wants to drive away paying customers because of the genitals of their partner, he will go out of business like that. Besides, they have a right to be idiots, just like they have a right to believe in God.


Donating = Loving

Heart Icon

Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.

Or make a one-time donation in any amount.