**NOTE**: This OP is only something of a “preamble” to the true story that will follow in the main body of the thread. Spoiler alert: Some of you regulars on here have already heard about this in previous posts from several months ago. However, due to our most recent visitor who seems to feel she is the judge, jury, and executioner of those persons of alternative lifestyles, I feel this story is worth repeating. Because it has become increasingly apparent that Joy somehow genuinely believes her condescending treatment of those individuals is being done “for the greater good of society.” Even worse, however, it would seem she sincerely thinks her words/actions toward them cause no ill effect. Therefore, I share this story in order to demonstrate exactly how devastatingly toxic her words and attitude can be to those who cause no harm, and who simply want to be accepted for who they are. First, I will assign the names of relevant individuals with some background on each. Then I will give a brief commentary at the end. Please bear with me…
Cathy: My cousin. A couple of years older than me. STRONGLY devout Christian. Church of God faith. Grew up on a farm in a very isolated rural area. Removed from school at age 15 or 16 due to failing grades. Raised by her highly devout Christian mother and a misogynistic and abusive stepfather. To this day has very little self-confidence or self-esteem.
Alex: Late husband of Cathy after thirty(+) years of marriage. History of cancer and other serious medical conditions. Passed away back in 2018 under HORRIBLE conditions. (More on that in the story.) Incredibly devout and faithful Church of Christ member. Intelligent guy. Hard worker. Very well thought of and highly respected in the community. A truly genuine good man. I never heard a cross word out of his mouth, and he was always smiling and willing to help anybody he could. Even I liked him and had a considerable amount of respect for him. (And I do not say that about many people.) He was a prime example of what a father and husband should be.
Nancy/Eric: Adopted daughter of Cathy and Alex. Adopted at birth and named Nancy. Currently 16 years old. She is a self-proclaimed lesbian who prefers to be called Eric, and feels more comfortable being addressed and treated as a male. Good kid. Smart kid. Creative. Artistic. Great imagination. Not a trouble maker. However, considerable psychological issues caused by the death of Alex and by the treatment of the ultra-religious family members of Alex.
Sandy: Older sister of Alex. Ultra-religious member of same church.
Donny: Husband of Sandy. Same religious beliefs and equal devotion to it.
Important to note: There are more family members, but they do not factor into this in any significant way. Also, the entire family on Alex’s side is almost like a clan. They all live in a somewhat secluded area with their respective houses all on shared property, with some of them within easy eyesight of each other. Cathy’s two older sisters (and their husbands) live many miles away in different parts of the state. Cathy and Eric currently live only a few minutes from me, so I am the closest dependable family member she has within easy access.
As I said, the story that follows is true. I wish it wasn’t, though. Sadly, Joy and those who share her mindset will likely use all manner of mental gymnastics and contortionist rationale to desperately maintain their pernicious grasp on their insidious belief system. In other words, I have very little doubt they will attempt to put the blame on the child and/or claim the adult family members are “not correctly following the word of god” and are - therefore - not “true Christians”. Nevertheless, there is an untold number of “lurker” members here, some of who may be “on the fence” concerning their faith. This story will be primarily for them. But here is the important thing that Joy and others of her ilk simply cannot seem to get through their bigoted, self-righteous, judgmental brains: You are free to think and believe anything you like. I DON’T CARE, AND IT IS NONE OF MY BUSINESS. But when you start believing you have the right to force your beliefs on others, or to treat others as being “flawed” or “deserving of contempt” simply because their lifestyle or their gender preference or their sexual preferences do not conform to your own pious and bigoted views of how people “should be”, then I DO care and it DOES become my business. I spent seventeen years in the military with three different combat deployments helping to defend the rights that allow people to live a peaceful life as they see fit without fear of persecution or discrimination. Just because I am no longer in the military does not mean I have stopped defending those rights. Story to follow….
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Early 2018: Cathy and fourteen year old Nancy are relaxing in their living room one evening when they hear Alex coughing loudly from the bedroom. They then hear him - still coughing - going toward the bathroom. Getting concerned, they were getting up to go check on him, at which time he exited the bathroom covered in blood, choking/gagging, and coughing up even more blood as he staggered toward them. He made it to the living room where he collapsed to the floor, blood still pouring from his mouth as he continued coughing and gasping for breath. Alex was drowning in his own blood due to a ruptured esophagus. (Of course, Cathy and Nancy had absolutely no way of knowing this at the time.) Obviously stunned and shocked at the horror of what they were seeing, they were both frozen motionless for a brief moment. But then Nancy snapped out of her terrified trance and immediately started performing whatever procedures her fourteen year old mind could think of in an effort to save her father, including CPR. This young teenager even had the presence of mind to instruct Cathy (who was still staring in disbelief) to call 9-1-1. As you might expect, Alex was dead before the medics ever arrived. Their home looked like a slaughterhouse, Nancy was covered in her father’s blood, and that young child was literally face-to-face with her father as she watched him take his last strangled breath and die slowly in a most gruesome and painful manner. Tragically, even if Alex had been in a hospital surrounded by skilled doctors/surgeons, it is very likely the outcome would have been the same due to the nature of the rupture. But try telling that to a fourteen year old child who only knows she failed at saving her daddy.
Backtrack a couple of years: Entering the age of puberty, Nancy discovers she is not attracted to boys. And after several weeks of mental turmoil she finally decides to tell Alex and Cathy she is a lesbian. Naturally, being such a Christian family, Alex and Cathy were stunned by the news. Nevertheless, after a few discussions, they accepted Nancy’s news and remained the loving parents they had always been. The remainder of the family, on the other hand, were a little less accepting. In particular, Sandy and Donny were very much outspoken about their disapproval of Nancy’s “decision” to be gay. To say the least, they rarely missed an opportunity to criticize Alex and Cathy for “allowing” their daughter to be a lesbian. Much to Alex’s credit, he totally supported and defended Nancy, telling Sandy and Donny to mind their own business, and often deflecting much of their unwarranted criticism away from Nancy and Cathy. (As I said before, Alex was truly a good man.) Yet Sandy and Donny never gave up in offering their unsolicited “advice” on what Alex and Cathy should do to “cure” Nancy. And they were quite fond of making snide comments toward/about Nancy whenever the opportunity presented itself. They were truly and faithfully doing “the Lord’s work” according to the dictates of their precious bible.
Fast-forward back to 2018, a couple of months after Alex’s death: Numbness and shocked disbelief still linger. And for Cathy, chaos is a daily companion. For Cathy has never had to handle any of the major household matters that most of us simply take for granted as being part of our daily routines. Alex had always dealt with such matters, relieving Cathy of practically all of those responsibilities over their thirty year marriage. Now she is being hit with these responsibilities all at once like a massive tidal wave. Overwhelming would be a severe understatement. At the same time, Nancy is naturally suffering from acute PTSD and attending regular counseling sessions. Add to that the fact she is struggling with the realization she no longer feels comfortable as a female. It simply does not feel natural to her to be addressed in the feminine sense. Therefore, she prefers to be called Eric, and requests that he be referred to and addressed as a male. To put it lightly, the family (including Cathy) are totally unaccepting of this revelation, with Sandy and Donny the self-appointed leaders of the “Anti-Eric Campaign.”
Time marches on: Cathy and Eric moved into another house and sold the house in which Alex had died. (For obvious reasons.) This put them a few miles away from the family “compound”, but still within easy reach. Eric had to be removed from school and start a home-schooling program due to severe anxiety problems. For the sake of brevity, I will use bullet points to hit the remaining highlights of the events that followed Eric’s “coming out” to the family…
* The family (even Cathy) initially refused to call Eric by his requested name. Cathy and the rest of the family gradually (and grudgingly) gave in, but Sandy and Donny steadfastly continued to refuse, even to this day.
* Sandy and Donny constantly harassed Cathy about Eric by telling her (AND Eric) how disappointed Alex would be of Eric and Cathy if he were still alive, and by often telling Cathy what an ungodly mother she was for “allowing” Eric to be what he is.
* One incident in particular, Donny went as far as stalking Eric on a website where Eric regularly chatted with his friends. One of the VERY FEW escapes Eric had to get away from all the negativity of his day-to-day life. During that time, Donny told Eric on that open website he was “a disappointment and an abomination.” (I wanted VERY badly to confront Donny about that personally, but Cathy did not want me to do so. You will see why in just a moment.)
* Cathy became more and more confused. On one hand, she loved her child dearly. On the other hand, she mostly agreed with Alex’s family that Eric was doomed to go to hell, and Cathy actually felt guilty (AND worried) for trying to defend Eric, because Cathy was also afraid of going to hell for supporting Eric.
* Meanwhile, nobody seemed to give two shits about Eric who was struggling not only with the loss of his father, but is also having to cope with being called an abomination and a disappointment to the very man he loved the most, but was unable to save.
* Ironically, Cathy (knowing I am an atheist) consulted me quite often for my advice. And I pulled ZERO punches with her, because by that time my ONLY concern was for that child who had stated many times he had considered suicide. During a couple of our MANY conversations, Cathy outright told me, “I love my child, but I just cannot accept her the way she is. It is just WRONG.” And I lost count of how many times Eric called me and my wife, upset and crying, desperately wanting to understand why his own mother has been treating him so horribly at home.
* During one of our more lengthy conversations, Cathy and I were discussing her religion. During that conversation I explained to Cathy my own personal views and many of the things I had learned after my final break from religion. Here is Cathy’s response almost per vadum: “Wow… I never thought of it that way before. I see what you are saying, and you are right. But I just can’t give up my church. It is all I have ever known, and I really like the people and the socializing there. I don’t know what I would do without them.”
Keep in mind, these behaviors toward Eric from Cathy, Sandy, and Donny were almost constant over the course of several months. Sandy and Donny remained relentless in their “godly pursuit” to “cure” Eric. Thankfully, the increased distance between Cathy and the clan eventually allowed her to get her priorities in order (to a certain degree). I suppose it also helped when Cathy was one day bitching so badly about how Sandy and Donny were treating Eric, and I flat-out told Cathy that she had been treating Eric in THE EXACT SAME WAY.
I am relieved to say things today seem to be a bit better between Cathy and Eric, as the contact with the rest of Alex’s family has been cut back considerably over the past few months. Plus, Eric finally got his driver’s license just a few weeks ago, so that has been a big help too. Rest assured, though, Eric will be leaving that household behind at the very first available opportunity, because Cathy never really stood up for him against the family. Moreover, she still does not FULLY accept Eric’s lifestyle, and she treats him as though she is hoping, “Well, maybe this is just a phase, so I will humor her for the time being.” And, yes, Eric STILL suffers from anxiety and PTSD, but he is a strong and smart kid and seems to be handling things better than many adults I know… (amazingly).
So, Joy…. You made a statement in one of your posts saying (in effect) you were simply giving your friend and your friend’s child “your opinion/advice” about what they should do to “correct” the child’s homosexuality. And you added you were doing it under the guise of trying to “help” the child. Well, allow me to let you in on a little secret…. Your pathetically fucked up “advice” DOES… NOT… HELP. It causes HARM to defenseless children, and it causes HARM to adults who may be struggling with similar problems in regards to their sexuality. As I have said before in other posts in other threads, you are totally free to HOLD any beliefs/opinions you choose. But sometimes those opinions need to be KEPT TO YOUR DAMN SELF. And before you even try it, DO NOT start preaching to me about how your glorious Catholic Church does not condone the actions of the family members in this very true story. Because - quite frankly - I do not give a single FUCK about anything your beloved Catholic Church has to say. Whether you like it or not, the Catholics, the Protestants, the Jehovahs Witnesses, the Baptists, the Methodists, the Church of God, the Church of Christ, and all the thousands of other Christian/Catholic sects use pretty much THE EXACT SAME DAMN BOOK for the basis of their particular beliefs. And each and every one of them believe wholeheartedly THEY are right, and everybody else is wrong when it comes to interpreting “God’s Perfect Words.” So, please, put down your toothpick of a lance, climb down off your preening high-horse, and do your best to keep your over-reaching nose out of everyone else’s sex life.
@Tin: Hell, I didn't have to rean any further than. "SO FULL OF JOY." That basically says everything I need to hear and it defines the situation quite clearly.
The bleachers erupts. Toilet rolls and cheerleaders everywhere! Have a hug my friend and take one for Eric as well....dammit...take two for Eric.
Hey tin.
One, please give my love to Eric. I went through the process later in life than him, solidly into my twenties, and the current world can seem scary for us, but he's gonna do great. I'm happy to lend any advice or info, but considering what gen z kids are up to, he's probably more knowledgeable than anyone else.
2, I was honestly skipping over most of Joys posts because I don't hate myself that much, so I'm sickened but not surprised by her stance. You have to understand that in papacy, obedience is the only true virture. It's better for a child to die than to sin. She doesn't care one but about suffering in this life, why should she? She's saving souls.
Catholicism stole half my life from me. I was researching how high of a fall it took to kill someone, then searching how tall water towers were. I remember hoping that it would feel like flying before I hit the ground.
I'm realizing more and more every day that it doesn't matter what Hocus pocus the RCC concocrs to dazzle me. None of it makes the story of Jesus make sense. Yahweh evolved from the canaanite pantheon, he merged with other deities just like Greece to Rome. I don't believe that a god was nailed to a cross and ressurected. Im not even convinced there was a historical jesus, considering the evidence of early mystery cult syncretism and savior archangel Yeshua.
And that's years I won't get back. That's a marriage where I felt violated because as the "woman" I wasn't allowed to tell my husband no. It's years of night terrors and acting holier than thou. It's hundreds of hours reading the catechism and the encyclopedia and apologist sites because I was terrified of my every action putting me in a state of mortal sin.
I'm about to turn 30. That's my twenties gone. That's lives ruined because someone told me I had to follow this path.
Jesus isn't real. He never saved anyone. His story doesn't even follow Jewish culture or law. Mary isn't real and she doesn't love you. Loving mother's don't tell 14 year old girls to eat grass and drink muddy water, or tell other children they're going to starve because people take her son's name in vain. Honestly Joy, I almost wish there was a god, just not yours, just so you could cross over and meet Loki with a giant shit eating grin on his face, "gotcha!"
Religion can suck my tranny dick.
@Mikhael
Damn, dude, you about brought tears to my eyes. And thank you very much for your offer of advice. Matter of fact, I was even considering asking you if you might have any pointers that would allow me to better help Eric. My wife and I have been doing okay so far (I hope), but it is nice to know I have another option for sound advice. And I may very well take you up on your offer soon. Thank you again, my friend.
As for you feeling like you have wasted twenty years of your life, I spent over FORTY years of my life with the dreadful fear of hell tormenting the back of my mind. Take it from me, though, you MUST find a way to put that behind you and start looking toward your brighter future. Certainly, you will have your period of anger and frustration. But drop that shit as quickly as you can. Do not allow the past twenty years to fuck up the next uncertain number of years you still have. You are free now. Enjoy that freedom. Cut loose that anchor of the past, let the winds fill your sails, and let yourself be carried away to see what awaits beyond the horizon.
You can message me anytime man, I know the best places to get binders, small fit men's clothes, all that. Haven't navigated much on the medical side, but plenty on the social since I still often get clocked as female; I blame my luscious hair. Honestly my biggest advice I give family and loved ones is, you're gonna mess up. You're gonna say she, and her, and nancy. You'll make mistakes. Don't make a big deal. Apologize shortly, correct, and move on. In most cases, making the smallest deal of it possible is the best action.
Trans people have a scary high rate of attempted suicide and other harmful behaviors but having even one supporting person in their life cuts it drastically.
I'm getting there man. The return of sunshine and mold weather is helping, I think seasonal depression played a huge role in this. Any time I've been getting a flare up of "but what if, but how did, but how can-" I just stop and remind myself that shit I didn't witness doesn't make zombie Jesus real. I'm not googling, not researching, I'm too tired for that.
@Mikhael
I admit I do slip up and use feminine pronouns every so often, but I have know the kid since he was born. Calling him Eric is not a problem at all, though. At this point, I even have to stop and think sometimes about what his birth name was... *chuckle*...
One advantage for Eric is that he looks more male than female, and he dresses in a more masculine style. Plus, he has a fairly tight circle of friends who are totally supportive. One of them even stood up to Eric's mother one time in Eric's defense. And he knows he can call me and my wife at any time and come to our house to get away for a bit if needed.
About to hit thirty, huh? You and my stepson are the same age. He will hit the big three-oh toward the end of this month. I must say it is fantastic to hear you are doing so much better, young man. And it is awesome seeing you out on the boards standing up for yourself and learning more and more. You have come a long way on here. You should be very proud of yourself. Keep up the good work.
I grew up in an area where conservative leanings were a given among anyone gen x or older; a kid from a neighboring town got death threats from parents for starting a GSA, so it's honestly always a refreshing view of humanity to see someone past mid-millenial who is open minded and profressive. And that's not an age jab at all, mind you, just a comparison to what I grew up with.
It's honestly amazing to see how far things have come just from me being in high school in the 2000s to high schoolers now. I can't imagine anyone in my school being out in 2008, it would have started a riot. I'm really glad that kids coming up now know they probably have some support and safety within reach!
Thank you for that. I'm still working but it's getting there. I can't tell y'all how good it's been to get an ass kicking on here time to time.
Thanks for the effort to post that. It goes beyond just religion (and it is not limited to Christianity), it is also a function of culture.
I was very active on a Cattle Forum for about the last 8 years. The culture of the forum was Conservative/ Christian. The level of tolerance was a negative 100! Homophobia was rampant. Any religion except Christianity was bashed mercilessly. Of course, the "cowboys" on the forum bashed any other denomination of Christianity outside their own.
The forum provided an insight into rural America. Tin-Man, this is not directly related to your story. It is much broader. If you peel back the veneer, this is a very ugly, hateful nation. Yes, on the surface it looks healthy. People smile and exchange niceties but skin off the veneer and it gets ugly fast.
@BR Re: "If you peel back the veneer, this is a very ugly, hateful nation."
Oh, believe me, I have definitely seen the "ugly hateful" side of this nation.
@Tin -Man
Don't worry mate, Australia still has a lot of problems with race.
When I was about 14, my Canadian mother observed that the only reason Oz doesn't have the same problems as the US with black people is we don't have any (apart from the aboriginals ,who everyone just ignored)
---THAT was in 1962. The white Australia policy was in force until 1975. That meant no blacks, asians anyone from the Indian Sub continent. Never met anyone from South America . We were not all that fond of Southern Europeans either, but they were tolerated because we needed the labour. Today we are officially described as a 'multi cultural nation' -------
Yet there has always a group or groups for Aussie to hate; When I was a gossoon it was the protestants. Then it was the POMS (Brits, who came out ,by ship, for ten pounds sterling) Then the Greeks and Italians were added, then the Vietnamese, then the Lebanese (in Sydney mainly) Today it's the Muslims . The hatred of this group is so widespread that it is used in our bi lateral political policy towards refugees. And almost everyone thinks that's just fucking dandy .
One of our most shameful public displays of racism was at Cronulla beach in Sydney in 2005. Anglo Aussies against Lebanese.
The wiki article is worth reading
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cronulla_riots
The Youtube link is to a 60 Minutes Report
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmpwQAUklnE
Having said all that, I love my country, I think it's fantastic, and don't want to live anywhere else. It's a foolish visitor or anyone else who has not lived in OZ who has the gall to criticise my country to me.
Of the many countries I've visited there are three I would consider if I could not live here; Canada ,Salt Spring Island BC, as I have dual citizenship, Ireland, near Dublin, and England, perhaps a village in one of the home counties. The US is not on my list unless there has been a nuclear war and it's the last habitable place on earth. :)
@Bright Raven: You know, I am about to be your neighbor. I am looking at houses in Cherokee Village AR. and nearby Hardy. I may be close enough to get out to the ranch and do some midnight cow tipping with you sometime.
@Tin: Give Eric our love, and the hope that he will some day be strong enough to sing his own story so that we can all benefit! Some people just need to WAKE THE FUCK UP!!!
Tin - thanks for sharing your story.
“Because it has become increasingly apparent that Joy somehow genuinely believes her condescending treatment of those individuals is being done “for the greater good of society.””
I’m sorry you feel my treatment is condescending. Would you say judging bulimia as an eating disorder is condescending? Would you say considering adultery as immoral is condescending? Is it condescending to suggest polygamy is not in man’s best interest?
You and I disagree about same sex relations. Just like bulimia and adultery, I think the behavior is wrong/disordered. Not all sexual attraction is rightly ordered. Having a sexual attraction to small children is disordered. Having a same sex attraction is disordered.
“ Even worse, however, it would seem she sincerely thinks her words/actions toward them cause no ill effect.”
I understand that someone might not like to hear things. Someone who has cheated on their spouse would not like to hear their behavior is wrong and they may think that means I think they are a horrible person, but that is not what it means. I recognize and understand why someone might cheat on their spouse. Perhaps they were in a loveless marriage, perhaps they simply succumbed to temptation, perhaps they were lonely, etc. I get it. You aren’t a monster, but the behavior you engaged in is harmful to you and others and is wrong.
“Therefore, I share this story in order to demonstrate exactly how devastatingly toxic her words and attitude can be to those who cause no harm, and who simply want to be accepted for who they are.”
Our sexual feelings/desires/behaviors are not who we are. They are what we feel or do. They are not a person’s identity. First and foremost we are all human beings.
“As I said, the story that follows is true. I wish it wasn’t, though. Sadly, Joy and those who share her mindset “
That’s rude. I can already tell you I do not share the mindset of anyone who is abusive or mean. And contrary to your bigoted outlook not all religions are the same.
“But when you start believing you have the right to force your beliefs on others, or to treat others as being “flawed” or “deserving of contempt” simply because their lifestyle or their gender preference or their sexual preferences do not conform to your own pious and bigoted views of how people “should be”, then I DO care and it DOES become my business.”
I never would say anyone is deserving of contempt – that is dishonest of you. Also, kind of rude to not allow any Christian to distance themselves from other bad “Christians”. Not really fair to accuse them of saying someone else isn’t a “true Christian” if the other person is doing things that aren’t Christian then I would think that should be a fair statement. But sure continue to paint with your broad stroke.
It sounds like Nancy went through a lot, and sounds like the family, if you are portraying them accurately, are insensitive, but also not sure you can pin everything Nancy is dealing with on the family’s behavior toward her. What if Nancy decided she should have been born blind or with a disability (It’s actually a thing). Should the family encourage her efforts to be blind or disabled?
Would they be wrong for trying to help her? Who are you to say their concern is not genuine? And who are you to say they are the main cause of her unhappiness? Even despite the overwhelming support for all things gay these days, depression, substance abuse, and suicide rates among LGBTQ remain high. It’s becoming more and more difficult to blame that on social unacceptance. What if they have the freedom now to come out, do what they want, and it is leaving them unsatisfied?
“* Cathy became more and more confused. On one hand, she loved her child dearly. On the other hand, she mostly agreed with Alex’s family that Eric was doomed to go to hell, and Cathy actually felt guilty (AND worried) for trying to defend Eric, because Cathy was also afraid of going to hell for supporting Eric.”
That’s messed up and not based on Christ’s teachings. Cathy can love and support Nancy without accepting her behavior right now. Catholic teaching would help Nancy realize she is a child of God and nothing she could do would make God stop loving her.
“* Meanwhile, nobody seemed to give two shits about Eric who was struggling not only with the loss of his father, but is also having to cope with being called an abomination and a disappointment to the very man he loved the most, but was unable to save.”
Well, exactly. That seems to be the bigger issue right now than Nancy’s same sex attraction or gender dysphoria. She definitely should be talking to someone.
“my ONLY concern was for that child who had stated many times he had considered suicide”
That is commendable of you, but why assume Nancy’s problems are due to her religious family? Perhaps living as a boy isn’t giving her the fulfillment she thought it would? Maybe she is realizing that too is not the answer. Maybe she is even confused to begin with because of the experience she has had in the culture today. Maybe the world has left her empty and lonely and she’s searching.
“. During a couple of our MANY conversations, Cathy outright told me, “I love my child, but I just cannot accept her the way she is. It is just WRONG.” And I lost count of how many times Eric called me and my wife, upset and crying, desperately wanting to understand why his own mother has been treating him so horribly at home.”
What does she do that is treating her horribly? Her inability to lie and call her a boy when she is a girl? So, now if people want to live by their own truth, others are forced to join them in their lie?
“Wow… I never thought of it that way before. I see what you are saying, and you are right. But I just can’t give up my church. It is all I have ever known, and I really like the people and the socializing there. I don’t know what I would do without them.”
She sounds like an idiot and an airhead if that is really what she said to you. I feel bad for her. She clearly doesn’t get it.
“ am relieved to say things today seem to be a bit better between Cathy and Eric”
Wow, well then maybe she came to have a better understanding of her role as a loving mother, friend, daughter of Christ and maybe Nancy has learned her mother really does love her and wants what is best for her and she can’t force someone else to except her distortion of reality.
“So Joy…. You made a statement in one of your posts saying (in effect) you were simply giving your friend and your friend’s child “your opinion/advice” about what they should do to “correct” the child’s homosexuality.”
Nope. I share articles with her about the beauty and truth of the Church’s teaching on love, marriage, sex, family. I share articles with her of testimony from those who suffered from same sex attraction, found it to be unfulfilling, and are now happier than they ever knew possible. I share articles with her about loving and being there for our children and being good examples and witnesses.
“allow me to let you in on a little secret…. Your pathetically fucked up “advice” DOES… NOT… HELP.”
Since you weren’t the recipient of said advice, that’s not really for you to say.
Engaging in same sex relations does not help the human person reach fulfillment/happiness.
“It causes HARM to defenseless children,”
Only if telling a child what is right and good causes harm.
“and it causes HARM to adults who may be struggling with similar problems in regards to their sexuality.”
I disagree. Many people who described themselves as once in the gay lifestyle, but have gotten out, say the worst was when people would be supportive and encourage them to just “be who you are” They would try that and it still left them empty and depressed and it wasn’t until someone had the courage to tell them what they were doing was wrong and will never bring them the happiness they deserve that challenged them to get out and realize they were looking for love where they were never going to find it. The freedom they feel now could not have been achieved if everywhere they went people just waved the rainbow flag and said, “you go for it!” They said that was a dead end street.
“As I have said before in other posts in other threads, you are totally free to HOLD any beliefs/opinions you choose.”
Riiiight . . . as long as they are what you believe.
“But sometimes those opinions need to be KEPT TO YOUR DAMN SELF”
Right back at ya.
“. And before you even try it, DO NOT start preaching to me about how your glorious Catholic Church does not condone the actions of the family members in this very true story.”
Well, they don’t.
“ Because - quite frankly - I do not give a single FUCK about anything your beloved Catholic Church has to say.”
Ok, so you think it is ok to just lump all religions together. Got it. Figures.
“Whether you like it or not, the Catholics, the Protestants, the Jehovahs Witnesses, the Baptists, the Methodists, the Church of God, the Church of Christ, and all the thousands of other Christian/Catholic sects use pretty much THE EXACT SAME DAMN BOOK for the basis of their particular beliefs.”
Well, the JW’s actually rewrote the Bible to fit their created theology, but yeah the others pretty much use the same Bible that my Church gave them. Of course, they each interpret it very very differently.
“ And each and every one of them believe wholeheartedly THEY are right, and everybody else is wrong when it comes to interpreting “God’s Perfect Words.””
Probably, or I guess they wouldn’t be that particular religion. But logically speaking they all can’t be right if they contradict each other, soooo . . . .
@ Joy
"yeah the others pretty much use the same Bible that my Church gave them."
No they do not. Most of the other christian protestants use a bible far removed from Jerome's Vulgate. In fact , again I have to say this , in 1943 your Church launched the "New Vulgate" which was a re translation of much of the Greek texts that survived in comparison with the Classical Latin Texts.
Protestant Churches tend to either use updated versions of the King James Bible or their own versions translated from 4th and 5th Century texts. Some with Apocrypha and some without.
Did you read nothing I wrote before?
@No Joy
Ahhhhh... THERE you are! Was beginning to worry you would not show up... *beaming smile*... I swear, I MUST BE some type of fortune teller. It is SUCH a relief for me to know my instincts are still functional, because you sauntered in here and responded EXACTLY as I predicted you would. I find it fascinating how this whole time you thought you were being soooooo clever. And you were carefully straddling that line between trying to sound "genuine" while trying not to cross over into being intentionally antagonistic. Even though it has been your full purpose all along to be intentionally antagonistic. You have just been playing games to keep it disguised. Well, I just want to offer you a sincere and heartfelt, "Thank you," for finally exposing yourself as a rank amateur in the area of PsyOps. Your feeble and pathetic attempt at placing Eric at fault for his current situation would be super-hilarious if it weren't so nauseatingly disturbing that a grown woman (who is supposedly a mother of eight children) would be that mind-numbingly callous about a suffering teenage child. I'm not sure whether to laugh my ass off or puke at your ignorant insolence. Oh, i know... Maybe I could pray for you?... *chuckle*...
Here's a little bit of trivia for you, Miss Joy... Being able to read and manipulate people and see through their bullshit is a skill that kept me alive during twenty years on patrol with the police department and during three different combat deployments with the military. And, to be perfectly honest, at this point I would actually be relieved to hear that you are only a warped and mentally disturbed troll here simply for the purpose of getting reactions that help you to masturbate in your mom's basement. I would actually be quite fine with that. Otherwise, based on your response to my OP, if you are truly who/what you claim to be, then you are actually WORSE than Sandy and Donny combined. And that is a very disturbing thought, and I genuinely feel very sorry for you. Sure, I am laughing my ass off inside because of the complete ineptitude of your responses, but I feel sorry for you all the same.
“You have to understand that in papacy, obedience is the only true virture.”
Such a misunderstanding of the faith.
“It's better for a child to die than to sin.”
Wow! Now I know you have no idea about the first thing about what the Church teaches. Repeating these ridiculous stereotypes ought to be embarrassing for you.
“And that's years I won't get back. That's a marriage where I felt violated because as the "woman" I wasn't allowed to tell my husband no.”
That’s horrible AND not Catholic! Marriage should be about love and mutual respect. How is it you were told otherwise?
“It's years of night terrors and acting holier than thou. It's hundreds of hours reading the catechism and the encyclopedia and apologist sites because I was terrified of my every action putting me in a state of mortal sin.”
Again, then you aren’t reading it correctly. That’s NOT what it says! Gaaaaaaaah!!!!!
“I'm about to turn 30. That's my twenties gone. That's lives ruined because someone told me I had to follow this path.”
Wow, I’m really, really sorry you weren’t shown the truth. I don’t know what you were reading or who you were talking to, but you got it oh so very wrong. I really hope you come to feel God’s love some day. I really do. It’s not as complicated as so many want to make it. It’s not about rules or do’s and don’ts. If anyone tells you otherwise, they aren’t getting it. He just wants to spend time with you. He loves you right now – just the way you are! You don’t have to do much to please Him. He loves it if you just smile. Just let Him in. He’s not rude. He won’t come in if you don’t want Him too. He doesn’t go where He’s not welcomed. Just open up a little and see what happens. I hope someday you will look into it again. It’s about relationship with Him. You’re getting off track. You’re missing it. Don’t know what else to say.
I’m sure you are all beautiful people. Gosh, I wish you could see it! I wish you could see yourselves how He sees you.
@Thread,
My paraphrase of the above post by Joy:
You don't understand my god idea!
My god idea is love and happy thoughts!
You misinterpret my god idea book! The scary parts in the book are not supposed to be scary!
You been talking to the wrong people about my god idea! (repeat of the idea my god idea is love) The rules in the god idea book don't matter! My god idea is only about love. My god idea wants to love you forever. Just open yourself up to the possibility of my god idea and experience nothing but love.
.
Okay I will admit Joy will never say "god idea" but it is important that word, "idea" gets put in. Because with zero demonstrable evidence, that is all any idea, god or not is, just an idea.
An idea just as valid or invalid as any other completely unevidenced idea, including my idea of: the rainbow farting unicorn god.
@ Joy
"“You have to understand that in papacy, obedience is the only true virture.”
Such a misunderstanding of the faith."
Is there any scenario where you would disobey a Pope direct orders?
Yes, or no, please.
@ Joy
"I wish you could see yourselves how He sees you." We are sooo fortunate to have someone with a hotline to the Roman god to let us know what it sees....sheesh arrogance much.
@Joy: RE: Just pick any of your posts.
Shit-cock-fuck-donkey-dick-moose-balls to that to that.
“Is there any scenario where you would disobey a Pope direct orders?
Yes, or no, please.”
Yes, any on any given day. Y’all need to pick up a copy of “Catholocism for Dummies”.The only time a person has to listen to the Pope is when he is speaking ex cathedra.
The use of this power is referred to as speaking ex cathedra. The solemn declaration of papal infallibility by Vatican I took place on 18 July 1870. Since that time, the only example of an ex cathedra decree took place in 1950, when Pope Pius XII defined the Assumption of Mary as an article of faith.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility
Interesting article from yesterday.
Ex-trans pleads with Canadian politicians not to ban therapy that ‘saved my life’
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/ex-trans-pleads-with-canadian-politici...
@ Joy
"Ex-trans pleads with Canadian politicians not to ban therapy that ‘saved my life’ "
Joy, now you are VERY guilty in mis-representing Bill S-202.
All Bill S-202 is doing is banning advertising and any financial gain that benefits from conversion therapy.
https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/43-1/bill/S-202/first-reading
Grasping at straws now?
Re: Joy
...*heavy sigh*... Ya know, as much as I would love to be able to call Joy a deplorable and totally inept person, I'm afraid I cannot do that. For starters, I have serious doubts that "Joy" is even remotely who/what "she" claims. Secondly, calling "her" that would actually be giving "her" too much credit. And, lastly, it would be totally unfair to all the other deplorable/inept people in the world for me to associate them with "her".
On the other hand, however, Joy's beliefs and outright dishonest behavior are some of the most foul smelling and ignorant archaic bunch of tripe that I have seen on here since JoC and Royism. Just an observation...
“All Bill S-202 is doing is banning advertising and any financial gain that benefits from conversion therapy.”
Yes, and the person in the article says how dangerous he believes such a bill is.
Bill S-202 could affect organizations who advertise conversion therapy or receive payment for offering support groups or counselling for individuals seeking to live out their sexuality in the manner they choose. We are also concerned with the breadth of the definition in S-202 and by the prospect that the government could adopt this definition in its anticipated changes to the Criminal Code. Further, while the activities prohibited by S-202 are focused on advertising and paid services, future government legislation could apply this definition to a broader range of activities, which could then be problematic for churches, religious officials and/or parents.
https://www.evangelicalfellowship.ca/Communications/Articles/December-20...
Joy, you wrote, “...future government legislation could apply this definition to a broader range of activities, which could then be problematic for churches, religious officials and/or parents.”
Because, gosh, churches, religious officials and/or parents ALWAYS make sound decisions about children.
@ Joy
"future government legislation could apply this definition to a broader range of activities, which could then be problematic for churches, religious officials and/or parents."
And isn't that a good thing?
Here is a hint: no one has the right to make someone else to take"conversion" therapy.
May I say, as a resident queer, that Joy can eat my whole ass. Can't say I'm sorry she got deemed a troll
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