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And your point is?
Not according to the Oxford English dictionary.
NOUN
Belief** in the existence of a god or gods, specifically of a creator who intervenes in the universe.
Don't you see how such duplicitous reasoning reflects on your apologetics? Theism is a belief a/theism is the absence or rejection of that belief.
Well, no debate from this chair. But, to spur on the thread I propose that faith is disbelief shrouded in hope.
Pitar, interesting. What’s the difference between faith and hope.
" What’s the difference between faith and hope."
Hope can validated by demonstrating evidence.
sure lets redefine this so it will reflect what we want it to mean.... oh wait that is exactly what you do with the bible.
Got it. ;)
The act of a desperate person.
"I know you are but what am I? " that's what I heard... Something to that effect.
So you guys think it sounds ridiculous when coming from a theist. Then it also must be ridiculous when stated by an atheist.
@AJ777
No fool. It sounds ridiculous because it is. A theist is a believer in a god or gods. An atheist is someone that doesn't believe in a god or gods. There is no "belief" in the non-existence of god. There isn't such a thing. You can't just say that atheists are some sort of "believers". That is just childish.
I know and christians would like to equate atheism with a religion, but it simply isn't.
Fucking stupid!
"So you guys think it sounds ridiculous when coming from a theist. Then it also must be ridiculous when stated by an atheist."
It's not ridiculous because it's coming from a theist, it's ridiculous because it's an absurdly stupid claim that a quick look at a dictionary could have avoided.
If atheism was the belief that gods don't exist then it would be okay, but it isn't.
AJ... A jury decides between guilty and what?
According to the law of non contradiction something cannot be both a and non a at the same time.
Atheism
Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
D-I-C-T-I-O-N-A-R-Y...
That has nothing to do with this. Either the jury decides that the defendant is guilty or... (?)
God can’t exist and not exist at the same time. Either he does exist or he does not. Your lack of belief in his existence has no bearing on the question.
Then neither does your belief.
I agree that he can't exist and not exist at the same time. I'm not asking that.
I'll answer the question... A jury rules either guilty or not guilty. They don't say innocent. Why because to declare the defendant innocent requires evidence. The same as guilty. Not guilty means that there wasn't enough evidence to support the claim that the defendant is guilty.
The vast majority of atheists don't say: " god does not exist" (innocent) but rather :" I don't believe that god exists" (not guilty) and theists say: "I believe that god does exist "(guilty)
This is why, if you said: "theism is the belief that god exists. " no one would take issue. But you didn't say that. You chose your words. The belief in the non existence of something is the same as believing that something does not exist. Whereas the lack of belief in the existence of something is slightly different and does not bear the burden of proof because no positive claim was made. Get it? I was trying to use the courtroom example because it is by far fewer words.
I understand your point sir. I disagree. To deny a claim is to affirm its opposite.
No
Ok
So if there is a jar of gum balls and we have to guess how many...
I say the number of gum balls is odd
You say I do not agree with that assertion, in your world that means you know the amount is even??
Are there other choices besides odd and even?
If I assert the gum balls are odd and you say.....
I DO NOT KNOW,
That is the other option. I'm curious how you act in real life when people tell you something that you don't know if you believe, do you believe everything they say or do you deny everything they say? And if you only say that yes this is true or no this is false and I do not know isn't an option, does that not make you all knowing? Do you know everything?
Again my knowledge of a thing has no bearing on whether it exists or not. I am ignorant or lacking knowledge on many subjects.
"Are there other choices besides odd and even?"
Yes, you can not know whether something is odd or even and so reject a claim to knowledge about whether something is odd or even without proper evidence. However this is a false dichotomy as odd and even are concepts we created to explain things, they don't exist in any real sense.
Your claim is that a god exists and you have "experienced" it. Can you demonstrate any evidence for this?
This is where agnosticism and gnosticism come into play. An agnostic atheist doesn't believe in god, but doesn't know 100%. A gnostic atheist doesn't believe in god and would affirm that. Most atheists are agnostic atheists, and don't know for certain, they just haven't found sufficient evidence for the god claim. Burden of proof and all.
"
I understand your point sir. I disagree. To deny a claim is to affirm its opposite."
No it really isn't, and this basic lack of understanding of the logic here is why you're embarrassing yourself with these attempts to reverse the burden of proof. Can you prove that invisible unicorns don't exist? Does this mean it's a 50/50 premise you have to accept is possibly true until you can dis-prove it? Do you neither believe or disbelieve invisible unicorns exist because the claim is unfalsifiable? That's absurd...
AJ777: "God can’t exist and not exist at the same time."
That's true of an infinite number of things. Santa Claus can't exist and not exist at the same time. The Starship Enterprise cannot exist and not exist at the same time.
Without any logical reason, theists have chosen to apply this dichotomy specifically to their concept of god. Why is that?
.
If you believe God doesn't exist, you're not an atheist.
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