A thought experiment for theists.

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Mohammad Ali's picture
A thought experiment for theists.

Let me try to put all you theists in a hypothetical situation.Consider you are all alone in a dark room trying to fall asleep but it is a stormy night and frightening sounds of thunder keep you awake.
Suddenly after a deafening roll of thunder you hear a deep commanding voice which you can't make out the origin of.It claims to be the voice of God and tells you that the only way you could attain absolution is to kill someone.
Why wouldn't you believe that it actually was god.(assuming you wouldn't)
Edit: I left out the cheating part to avoid confusion.

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MCDennis's picture
because I don't murder people

because I don't murder people

ENDo friendo's picture
God does not talk either, but

God does not talk either, but he did.

Mohammad Ali's picture
What if God told you to.

@MCD
What if God told you to.

CyberLN's picture
I don't think that behavior

I don't think that behavior warrants the death penalty.

Keith Raye's picture
I think it would be better to

I think it would be better to ask why your partner found it necessary to cheat.

Mohammad Ali's picture
You guys completely

You guys completely misunderstood me.The point I was trying to make is completely different.It has nothing to do with cheating.
So my point is this.If a believer accepts the holy books as the word of God and also believes that God communicated with his 'chosen people' in some way then what would stop them from believing that it was actually God talking to them.As they accept the holy books without any credible evidence, why wouldn't they believe the 'voices in their head' as the word of God and why wouldn't they follow it.
Would they demand evidence in this case?Why?
Edit: I don't know why mentioned cheating in the original post.

Keith Raye's picture
Um...I don't think you're

Um...I don't think you're going to get any takers among the theists with your question, Mohammed. There's no reason why you shouldn't post anything you want to here, but look at the popular posts - the ones that get the theists going - and see how they do it. Stay with us because you're more than welcome here, but learn from what you see. It took me awhile to get used to this site but it's worth sticking with.

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
Don't listen to Keith. I'll

Don't listen to Keith. I'll answer you when i get home. You made a good post with a great question.

Keith Raye's picture
Wow! I was wrong. My

Wow! I was wrong. My apologies, Mohammed. Have fun!

Mohammad Ali's picture
No problem, Keith.

No problem, Keith.

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
Short answer yes, I would ask

Short answer yes, I would ask for more evidence. Firstly, because Scripture always warns us of the possibility of deceit, whether it be by our own sense or other people:

-“For false Christ’s and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.” (Matthew 24:24).
-“But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.” (Gal 1:8).
-“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" (Jer 17:9).

Secondly, because at no point in Scripture did God’s presence seem as ambiguous as you described. There is no mistaking it for mere thunder. It is always a fearful and powerful event:

-“At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God.” (Exodus 3:6).
-“I, Daniel, was the only one who saw the vision; those who were with me did not see it, but such terror overwhelmed them that they fled and hid themselves. So I was left alone, gazing at this great vision; I had no strength left, my face turned deathly pale and I was helpless. Then I heard him speaking, and as I listened to him, I fell into a deep sleep, my face to the ground.” (Daniel 10:7).
-“Now as he went on his way, he approached Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven shone around him. And falling to the ground, he heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul…” The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.” (Acts 9:3).

Lastly, I would question because even the Bible characters questioned:

-“He said to him, “If now I have found favor in your eyes, then show me a sign that it is you who speak with me.” (Judges 6:17).
-“Now when John heard in prison about the deeds of the Christ, he sent word by his disciples and said to him, “Are you the one who is to come, or shall we look for another?” (Matt 11:2)

In conclusion I would demand more evidence because the experience would violate everything I know about God from Scripture. It is never a "voice in your head" but most often a loud overwhelming experience. I would question because it also violates the plan of Salvation. Absolution comes through Christ, not the murder of another person. I would question because the first thing God tells people, isn't to kill, but to not be afraid: 1) "Fear not, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand and humbled yourself before your God, your words have been heard, and I have come because of your words" (Dan 10:12). 2) "Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God" (Luk 1:20). 3) "When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last." (Rev 1:17).

Lastly I would question, because we have the right to, and because the God of Scripture shows himself willing to be questioned. Half the Bible is full of man questioning God, often by those that are role models: David - "Why, O Lord, do you stand far away?" (Psalm 10:1), even Jesus Himself: "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" (Matt 27:46).

Mohammad Ali's picture
@Atheist Breezy

@Atheist Breezy
Seriously?
Didn't you understand my point?
You are presenting verses from a book whose credibility is in question here.What evidence do you have that the Bible is the word of God.Because it says so in the Bible?I think that's the argument that you are leaning towards and it's a fallacy.
"The Bible is true because it says in the Bible that it's true".It's called the circular argument which does not work in any case.
My question still remains unanswered.
Why would you consider the Bible to be the word of God, but not the 'voices' that I talked about, given the evidence for both is the same.Zero.

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
I can't miss a point that isn

I can't miss a point that isn't there. I also can't answer a question that wasn't asked. Go back and read your OP again. I answered your question. If I didn't, then its because it wasn't expressed in the OP. Go back, and rewrite it.

Mohammad Ali's picture
Wow!

Wow!
A perfect example of willful ignorance.

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
"It claims to be the voice of

"It claims to be the voice of God and tells you that the only way you could attain absolution is to kill someone.

"Why wouldn't you do it."

"Why wouldn't you do it?"

"Why wouldn't you do it?"

"Why wouldn't you do it?"

"Why wouldn't you do it?"

I told you why I wouldn't do it. Now, this is about the fifth time I read through your OP. I basically have it memorized. If you wanted me to answer something else, change the OP accordingly.

Mohammad Ali's picture
Ok first of all calm the fuck

Ok first of all calm the fuck down.
Now try this.Why would you demand evidence at all.Forget the killing part.What if it only claims to be god.Why would you demand evidence.

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
I already told you why I

I already told you why I would demand evidence, and I barely used killing as part of the reason. I don't know what more you want me to add that wasn't already added.

Mohammad Ali's picture
You said you would demand

You said you would demand evidence because it says so in the Bible.I will say that again.BECAUSE IT SAYS SO IN THE BIBLE as you presented verses from the Bible.Now as I explained before what you did is make a circular argument, which never makes sense.

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
Forget it. I lost interest.

Forget it. I lost interest.

Mohammad Ali's picture
Well, of course you did.

Well, of course you did.

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
Atheist Breezy - 0 | Mohammad

Atheist Breezy - 0 | Mohammad Ali - 1

Flamenca's picture
In conclusion I would demand

In conclusion I would demand more evidence Well done!!!

Oh, @Breezy... Sometimes I wonder why I can't keep my mouth shut...

The attached image is my commentary to your post.

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Keith Raye's picture
That boy's not well.

That boy's not well.

AJ777's picture
Hi Mohammad Ali, sounds like

Hi Mohammad Ali, sounds like the question is does God speak to people. This is very complex and I’ll give you my short answer or opinion, but i’ll also provide links to a three part article by Greg koukl that you may be interested in. My opinion is that yes I believe God is able to speak to Christians(I’m Christian), but that is not how he has chosen to speak to most Christians. I believe he reveals himself through his Word, the Bible. If I did hear a voice commanding me to do something I would hopefully remember that Christians are told to judge the spirits, as in our theology there are fallen angels and angels from god. Also psychological conditions can cause one to hear voices that no one else does if that is part of the scenario.If the command was something that is not in line with Gods word, then it’s not from God. I don’t personally believe God speaks to me directly, I’ve heard religious people say God told them to do something. I’m personally very skeptical of these claims, and since this particular command does violates the commandments against murder, and is an offer of salvation through that murder it does not agree with the Bible.

https://www.str.org/publications/does-god-whisper-part-1#.WeUmSGhOnYU

https://www.str.org/publications/does-god-whisper-part-2#.WeUnNmhOnYU

https://www.str.org/publications/does-god-whisper-part-3#.WeUnUWhOnYU

Mohammad Ali's picture
"Hi Mohammad Ali, sounds like

"Hi Mohammad Ali, sounds like the question is does God speak to people."
No, it's not.My question is why would you consider the Bible as the word of god, but not the 'voices' that I mentioned in the original post, knowing that the evidence for both is non existent.

AJ777's picture
I don’t agree that there is

I don’t agree that there is no evidence that the Bible is the word of God.

Mohammad Ali's picture
Care to share the evidence

Care to share the evidence with all of us.???

Keith Raye's picture
@AJ777

@AJ777

That's a very interesting post you made there. Perhaps, after all, we have some common ground. My first reaction is that, if someone hears voices in their heads, they need a psychiatrist. But it's easy to see how people can become confused about such things.

Mohammad Ali's picture
@keith

@keith
"My first reaction is that, if someone hears voices in their heads, they need a psychiatrist"
On what basis would a theist come to a conclusion that the voices that they are hearing might be a delusion or maybe even a prank played by friends.I mean, isn't it the same case as of the holy books and some 'holy men' who could 'speak to god'.Why don't they question their mental well being, and again why don't they demand any evidence when it comes to holy books.

ENDo friendo's picture
If the theist faith in the

If the theist's faith in the god is unshakable, I am pretty sure that that theist will kill the person in the name of god . They don't have any proof regarding Bible but they do and believe all those stupid things for as the word and rules of God. They will deny it, ridicule the old testament and respect the new one and talk about poetical meaning as excuses. But in the end, it's rather unlikely that they will actually admit anything, whether they will kill or not.

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