The validity of the Bible
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Are you really asking if we would believe the bible is true, if we believed the bible is true?
"JACKSON5 - Would any of you believe if the Bible is true?
Are you really asking if we would believe the bible is true, if we believed the bible is true?"
Absolutomundo! I am ready to accept that the bible is true----The instant anyone provides credible evidence .Currently, things aren't looking too good for believers.
Recent archaeology has shown for example that It's likely that the exodus and Moses are myth. That Judaism was still polytheistic as late as 300 bce . That YHWH began as an early Israelite war god and that he even had a wife, Asherah, who was a part of the Canaanite pantheon
These findings are supported by modern scholars such as Bar Ehrman and Richard Carrier. Those scholars have a great deal more to say in showing how for example that the bible is myth.
Erhman shows the bible has been changed so much since the firsts century that we really have no idea what was originally written.
Carrier puts a compelling case that Christianity is a synthesis of the Greek mystery religions and Judaism.
I have't cited specific sources because in my experience, christian apologists dismiss any sources which contradict dogma. Usually without bothering to read them first.
I will of course provide my sources for anyone with a genuine interest.
Would you believe if you had very good reasons to think the Bible was a collection of made up stories? Really very good, sensible reasons.
Do you mean..."Would any of you believe (in a god) if (every supernatural thing mentioned in) the bible is true?"
If there was clear demonstrable objective evidence of EACH supernatural assertion in the buybull (which there is not), that would still not convince me a god exists. I would need clear demonstrable objective evidence of your version of a god, to even consider him, let alone what is said to be true about his specific powers.
It is absurd to even consider one thing, that is not objectively evidenced. I mean, bring forward a hypothesis for the existence of your version of a god, and test your hypothesis. Lets see what you come up with. So far, since man's inception of gods, there has not been one bit of objective evidence for any god, let alone yours.
Jackson5, you asked, “Would any of you believe if the Bible is true?”
The whole book? How would the discrepancies be reconciled?
J5.... what do you mean by true? It’s a book. It
was written by men. It was copied through the centuries...(and scholars have fun with words/history)
We have a bunch of ancient “hand me downs”
from various cultures (scholars/historians have fun)... this is also true.
So what the fuck do you mean “true”?!?!?
Sorry to be a noodge.
Both old and New Testaments are anthologies rather than a single book.
I don't know how arbitrarily the Jewish canon was decided. I've always thought probably very slowly, over centuries, but I really don't know. I'm aware that there is a body of Jewish apocryphal writing , but I haven't read much of it,and that was 40 years ago. The names of the two I looked at escape me.
All I can remember is the claim that the first woman was a redhead called Lilith, not Eve. That she upset Adam by not doing what he told her to do. So of course Adam complained to god, who turned Lilith into a demon and created Eve. And didn't that work out swimmingly. The story of Lilith is used to explain how Jewish folk superstition has always considered red hair unlucky.
The New Testament is another matter entirely. The canon used today was chosen arbitrarily from dozens of texts almost entirely by one man, bishop Athanasius of Alexandria. It was ratified at the First Nicene Council in 325 ce.
The First Nicene Council was the beginning of the religion called 'Christianity', which wasn't even its name at that time . It became THE dominant Christian church by the simple expedience of hunting down and murdering all opposition and burning their books. By the fourth century, there were literally dozens of sects. Today all we know about most of them is their name and a few lines of Christian commentary
Sorry to rave on . I'm trying to reach a balance between being a sniping wise ass and a humbug.
"I'm trying to reach a balance between being a sniping wise ass and a humbug."
You're failing. lmao
@Cranky...first life lesson - NEVER apologize for who you are! Re: “Sorry to be a noodge.”
People will either like you for who you are (I don’t know what the fuck a noodge is, but I still like you)
BTW thanks for the bible lesson *snicker*...I loved learning about Lilith and really?!?!? the bible is little books put together?!?!?
Sorry, old boy, you’re gonna have to wait for a theist to educate.
Edited to add: oh wait, I get it...J5 might read the post and get a brain-quake ...
Cranky: The second wife was not given a name. God made the mistake.... ha ha ha ha ha ..... like the asshole ever gets anything right, of making the second woman in front of Adam. Adam saw all the insides and was so repulsed he would not go near the woman. Finally, god put him to sleep and made a woman from his rib. Eve was Adams third wife. (Some stories say the second wife had clear skin.)
Sorry for the shitty reference... I know there are better ones... Still, you get the idea.
If by answering your questions, would you then believe that the Bible is true and become Christians?
However, if your answers are not constructed with valid objective evidence, then your answers will be disregarded, and not worth consideration.
But maybe, we will be surprised with new information. Stranger things have happened.
Let me try...
Do you have any objective evidence of your version of a god?
Your answers would need to be extremely compelling to get me to believe in your invisible friend.
...a “true believer”? .... hehehehehe
Can the Koran answer the same questions?
Or the Vedas?
Or Pali Canon
Or the Guru Granth Sahib
Or (Bahá’í) Kitáb-i-Aqdas
Or (Jainism) - Agam Sutras
Or (Shinto) - Kojiki
Or (Zoroastrianism) - Avesta
Or are you only offering up Christianity (Old Testament AND New Testament) vs Jewish (Old only)
I didn’t even throw in The Book if Mormon...
You are assuming we have questions that we ourselves can’t find answers to. What, pray tell, do you assume those questions to be?
"Maybe" is not good enough. Why should I confuse you with the truth when your mind is already made up?
Well, atheism is a disbelief in what you personally think is real. You need to validate what you believe, so your belief can exist in reality...that is reason enough to answer everyone for your unfounded assertions. Believing in something that is not objectively evidenced in reality, makes people not only disbelieve your assertion, but also makes people question your sanity...so it might be something you should always answer.
Being religious prior to learning about critical thinking, belies being ever confused about religion, or what you believe to be "the truth".
Now speaking about confusion, How is something real or the absolute truth, when it does not exist in reality, or has zero validation ever? That was a rhetorical question, I already know the answer.
Now all I am trying to do, is give you a chance to address the people that think you are nuts...and you are dragging your feet? LOL.
Here you go, another chance...
Do you have any objective evidence of your version of a god?
How exactly does the answer maybe donate a mind that is made up? I think before implying confusion in others, you ought really to gain a basic understanding of the English language. You might start by Goggling the definition of maybe.
"Why should I confuse you with the truth when your mind is already made up?"
You need an education because your ignorance is offensive.
Do you understand that most atheists deconverted from a religion? Do you understand that those atheists faced questions and answers, and changed their position based on evidence?
Here is a hint: most of those I mentioned are capable of changing their position. But here is the kicker ... it is incumbent on you to offer evidence that sway their position.
So the floor is yours. Convince me with evidence or proof. Pleas and threats do not sway my position.
Your version of truth?
Maybe you’re the one that’s confused?
I've said it once (or twice... or three times... maybe four?... oh, whatever.... I lost count...), and I'll say it again...
What is the most compelling objective reason you have for believing a deity is real?
You said " I understand enough of it to defend it."
But you have never offered any defence of your faith. You have posted once before and then disappeared without comment and now after a limp youtube link, because "maybe" doesn't suit your tastes, you refuse to even explain your truth, let alone defend it.
Are you reluctant to engage here because the details of this truth confuse you?
Maybe you aren't ready to share or defend?
Maybe you need more time to understand why that truth confuses you?
I think you may have expected, like the prophets of old, to be magically embued with confidence, certainty and clarity of expression.
Take your time.
Most of us have been in the very same position you seem to be in yourself right now. We have learned to be extremely patient.
Well organized Grin.
BTW, the masks made me chuckle.
@ doG, glad you like the masks...they show I have way too much time on my hands at the moment.
Gahan Wilson....one of the world’s best!
@ CyberLN Gahan Wilson has been a long time favourite cartoonist of mine. Used to look for his cartoon first before checking out the Playboy centrefold...err...my brother's copy of course and I've always been a nerd. My estimation of Wilson has increased considerably since I found could he could draw a cockatoo. The Poe reference is fanstastic
Open here I flung the shutter, when, with many a flirt and flutter,
In there stepped a stately Cockatoo of the saintly days of yore;
Not the least obeisance made he; not a minute stopped or stayed he;
But, with mien of lord or lady, perched above my chamber door—
Perched upon a bust of Pallas just above my chamber door—
Perched, and sat, and nothing more.
Then this ivory bird beguiling my sad fancy into smiling,
By the grave and stern decorum of the countenance it wore,
“Though thy sulfur crest be shorn and shaven, thou,” I said, “art sure no craven,
Ghastly grim and ancient Cockie wandering from the Nightly shore—
Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night’s Plutonian shore!”
Quoth the Cockatoo "Whose a pretty boy then? Arrk!"....they just don't write poetry like that any more.
@breathing C0 way toooo long birdguy
My level of poetry enjoyment!!!
It’s about a bird...