The bible says it was to fulfil a prophecy so was it fulfilled?
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Yes it was. Was the Lord Jesus in the Grave for a literal 72 hours, not one second more or less? No. But the Bible did not say that He would be. It only said that He would be in the Grave for three days and three nights. That was counted differently in that culture than it is today. Even today, though, we are hardly so hard and fast about these things. Today we say, "I spent the whole day there just waiting to see him," and fully expect the person we're talking to to understand that we were not counting the seconds to make sure that it was exactly 24 hours.
The point of the three days and three nights was to emphasize that the Lord Jesus's Body would not "see corruption," that is, it would not decay. Decay was culturally accounted back then to begin from the fourth day (see John 11:39). The Lord was to be in the grave long enough for it to be clear that He was truly dead, but not so long that His Body, which was sinless, would begin to decay. Again, this is a cultural thing, since, with our scientific obsession with precision today, we sometimes consider a body to begin to decay right from the moment of death. But if we were to be absolute, then decay starts even while we are alive whenever cells die and are not replaced in our bodies.
In the time that the Lord lived, a day was counted if a part of it was experienced, so although the Lord rose from the dead early in the morning of the third day, the fact that He was still in the tomb by the third day made it a complete three days for Him to be dead.
Sometimes, the Scriptures do use "precision counting" sometimes to make a point. For example, in Revelation 11:9, the two witnesses are said to be dead for three days and a half. This is deliberate because it is a symbol for the three and a half years of the Great Tribulation that follow their death. Otherwise, day counts in the Bible follow the culture of the day.
@reedemption: re: 3 days. And if you believe that, I have some swamp land in Arkansas that Disney is going to buy up real soon. If you send me $6000 dollars right now, you can become a Junior spaceman and own a piece of this valuable land. In just 3 years your $60000 dollars will quadruple. That is an iron clad, swear to God, promise.
We have no records of a magical working prophet contemporary to the life of this Jesus person. NONE. We do have records of about 8 other prophets during the same time period; however, regarding the guy that allegedly cause earthquakes, a darkness to fall over the earth, the blind to see, the lame to walk, the dead to rise from their graves, history is COMPLETELY and UTTERLY silent. If Jesus lived, not a single soul noticed him or had anything at all to say about him during his life. No one noticed his ride into the city on the back of an ass, no one noticed the great sermon on the mount, not a single soul watched him walk on water or feed the multitude with loaves and fishes. All we have are stories written by non-observers, generations after the fact. There is no eye witness to anything Jesus allegedly did. NONE.
Lastly and most importantly, we have no reputable account of a resurrection. What we have are 3 contradictory stories that were written more than 70 to 120 years after the supposed event. What we have is Paul's version that never mentions miracles, virgin birth, or ministry on earth. We have Paul who admits that everything he knows comes from scripture or divine inspiration and he only knows about a Jesus who exists in the heavens. From Paul's version to the gospels, each story gains in complexity. Each new author adds to the collection of myths. This continues to happen even today.
@Cognostic
Right. If you can believe that, then you must believe that there's a giant ball of gases hanging on nothing out in space that wakes you up every morning. For the paltry sum of 250K USD, Virgin Galactic can give you a close-up view of it too. I promise it will be a once-in-a-lifetime experience for you. You won't regret it!
We have absolutely no evidence that there is a ball of fiery gases hanging out in space around which the earth revolves. There are painted discs and shiny dots and sparkles fixed on the solid dome of the sky that rotates around the fixed plane of the earth. But there is absolutely no evidence of any giant balls out in space.
Finally, there is no such thing as space travel. There is just a massive conspiracy to deceive Africans into thinking that they are an inferior race incapable of building technology that can go to space. Not a single soul witnessed any human landing on the moon. Not a single human being has ever reached the Great Dome of the sky. All the stories you've heard were made up by Hollywood sci-fi screen writers and novelists who never even saw a rocket in their lives. All the "news videos" were made in a top-secret underground studio in Hollywood. Each "news" article and video contradicts the one before it. There isn't a single eyewitness, just more and more complex stories that contradict each other with no shred of proof that there are giant balls of fiery gases in space.
That's exactly the same as your argument above.
@Redemption: We have absolutely no evidence that there is a ball of fiery gases hanging out in space around which the earth revolves.
Yet, I give you a billion stars in the night sky as well as our own sun. All of it observable, measurable, predictable, and easily validated by every sense known to man. Please demonstrate the same for your god.
What is self-evident in this forum is that you are simply trolling along, citing unfounded bullshit and hoping to get a reaction. There is a reason I came up with the new Jesus meme. It was just for an occasion like this.
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@Cognostic: LOL. You mean a billion sparkles and dots and a yellow disc on the dome, don't you? Of course it is all observable, measurable, predictable, and easily validated by every sense known to man. That's why I told you that there are no such things as giant balls of fiery gases or even rocks hanging on nothing out in space.
Please demonstrate the same for your giant balls of gases and rocks and your outer space.
@reedemption: You see the dots? That's more that we see of your god. The demonstration is your admission.
Just for you...
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@Cognostic
I think you're having a different argument from the one I am having.
The issue is that those dots are not giant balls of gas or rock. They are just shiny dots on the Great Dome of the sky. There is no proof of any "outer space" or giant gas balls.
If you can prove the existence of outer space and your giant balls of gas and rock, then I will prove the existence of God to you too.
@reedemption: There is no proof of any "outer space" or giant gas balls.
Apart from parallax and spectroscopy, you mean?
@Algebe Apart from nothing. You're still spouting Hollywood and US government propaganda at me. You're all being deliberately blind. You, Sheldon, and the whole lot lol. You've been brainwashed to believe that the African is an inferior human because he cannot create space tech. There's no such thing as outer space and giant gas balls and rocks in space.
@reedemption
@reedemption: You've been brainwashed to believe that the African is an inferior human because he cannot create space tech.
We're all Africans, nitwit.
Your elevator doesn't seem to be going all the way to the top floor. You should seek help.
@ Reedemption.
There is a big difference between can not and have not. I've seen no evidence which proves Africans are in anyway inferior to any other humans one the planet. ------
In the nineteenth century there was Shaka Zulu, ,called "the Black Napoleon" who conquered an empire the size of Europe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaka
From the 11th to the 15th century there was the city of Great Zimbabwe. Look it up.
Finally, because of racist nonsense, many white people especially fail to grasp that ancient Egypt was an AFRICAN culture.
It's simply not credible to me that a person who found his/her way to this forum could possibly be as wilfully ignorant as your last few posts suggest.
There seems to be only two explanations; you are really as ignorant as you seem to be Or (more likely) you're just a common or garden variety TROLL. In either case, I decline to waste any more time on you.
@reedemption
Why the fixation on Africans?
@Cognostic is @reedemption here just to argue?
Or a troll?
Troll. He overdid it with the claim that there is no such thing as outer space. Pretty soon he will be claiming the earth is flat.
He has made positive claims and has attracted the burden of proof. This is because he has affirmed a negative, which makes his claims positive in logical discussion.
I may have explained this poorly. There is a lot of information on line. I first came across the idea in discovering the statement "there is no god" is a positive claim and attracts the burden of proof .
As far as I'm concerned, Reedemption IS A TROLL IS A TROLL IS A TROLL.
@Foevel: There are trolls who come on the site just to piss people off. They know their arguments are bogus and it does not matter to them. There are trolls that actually believe the crap they say. Reedemption is the former. When pressed to the wall with logic and reason he resorts to inane comments like... "@Cognostic: LOL. You mean a billion sparkles and dots and a yellow disc on the dome, don't you?" This was his argument for the universe. Not even a six year old child would go there. He is just a troll playing a game of "BAIT THE ATHEISTS." Nothing we say will have impact on him as he pays no attention at all to anything said. He is not interested in exploration of facts or what is true. He just wants to win an argument and he has no leg to stand on so he argues dishonestly, just like every other Christian apologist that has ever come onto the site.
If it's a painted disc, how come I can use a magnifying glass to burn things? I'll tell you what take a good long look at the painted disc through a pair of binoculars at midday, it can't hurt you after all.
Christ but you're dumb, seriously. Are you really aloud on the internet unsupervised?
The paint is very very shiny
So's your brain if you think shiny paint can burn your retinas, but again don't take my word for it, take a long hard look at it at midday through a decent pair of binoculars.
Your claim and the analogous comparison you're deriving from it are asinine.
@Sheldon
Insults won't help you here.
@Fievel Mousekewitz: RE: Reedemptions, "The Paint is very shiny" Do you see how easy it is to spot a troll. They just say things that are blatantly false or extremely ignorant. They refuse to concede points when points are made and once pinned down will leap to another argument. Watch what comes next....
@ reedemption
"The paint is very very shiny"
So the sun is a painted disc in the sky, using a paint with a high albedo? Then why is the reflected color yellow? And what is the primary source of the light that is reflected off this sun disc?
Why is it that when one examines sunlight under spectroscopy, there are absorption lines?
The fact that you call stars "fiery balls of gas hanging on nothing" means that we can pretty much discard everything you say going forward.
Thanks for playing. :D
reedemption
Evidence please...simy repeating claims from the babble is meaningless. People dont magically come to back to life after they've been dead long enough for fucking rigor mortis to set in ffs.
@reedemption …..
Odd that in all your extensive post you neglect to indicate the exact prophesy that was fulfilled...….. ?
@ Watchman
Indeed.
Christians cherry pick Jewish prophecy to shoehorn the biblical Jesus into the role of Messiah. The claim that Jesus fulfilled prophecy for the messiah is simply untrue.
Had Christians bothered to read Jewish prophecy, (after all ,he was THEIR messiah) they would have discovered that Jesus didn't come close .
A few things I can remember off hand:
The Messiah is to be a warrior king, like David.
He is NOT divine
He will NOT die young
The Messiah will usher in a universal New Age , for all mankind .
A bit different from the biblical Jesus ,called "Christ' (anointed one)
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In the New Testament, Jesus is reported as saying:
New Living Translation: Matthew 16:28
"
And I tell you the truth, some standing here right now will not die before they see the Son of Man coming in his Kingdom.”
Jesus refers to his return as "soon" several times in the NT..Churches have ignored that prophecy almost since the beginning, Certainly from the first Nicene Council in 325 ce
When Jesus did not return as promised, christians simply changed the expected time of his return to some vague time in the future
When Jesus did not return, christianity became just another failed millennial movement. .
The more important thing you should be considering first, is if there even was a Jesus to be entombed for three days to begin with. ;)
Resurrection
Cognostic has covered the basics and needs no embellishment from me regarding the alleged entombment of the jesus figure.
Although not quite on topic (I mean why does it matter how long this jesus figure was entombed (not buried)?) The important thing is that he was allegedly resurrected by the "holy Spirit" and became god in his own right (along with the other two)
There are ONLY the gospel accounts of Jesus crucifixion and subsequent resurrection. All written many years after the alleged events and none by an eye witness.
The contradictions of the alleged events by the gospel copyists point to a fiction, not an attempt to honestly record actual events as is common throughout the gospels. Each gospel was "The" gospel and was aimed at a different audience and had different emphasis , and, indeed glaring contradictions and redactions to suit the intended audience.
Pauls maintains that his jesus was a spiritual (not physical resurrection) and he subsequently follows this figure in his visions and dreams.
The contradictions are so great that it is a canard to assert (as many theists do) that the discrepancies are due to eye witness confusion. Count the impossibilities of that little apologetic below.
I have copied some of the glaring contradictions as they are easily found without me laboriously cross referencing my many texts. Citation below.
Jesus’ First Resurrection Appearance
The resurrection of someone dead is an important event, but the Gospels don’t seem to know where and when Jesus first appeared.
Mark 16:14-15 - Jesus appears to Mary Magdalena, but it’s not clear where (in older endings of Mark, he didn’t appear at all)
Matthew 28:8-9 - Jesus first appears near his tomb
Luke 24:13-15 - Jesus first appears near Emmaus, several miles from Jerusalem
John 20:13-14 - Jesus first appears at his tomb
Who Sees Jesus First?
Mark - Jesus appears first to Mary Magdalena then later to “the eleven”
Matthew - Jesus appears first to Mary Magdalena, then to the other Mary, and finally to ”the eleven”
Luke - Jesus appears first to “two,” then to Simon, then to “the eleven”
John - Jesus appears first to Mary Magdalena, then the disciples without Thomas, then the disciples with Thomas
Women’s Reactions to the Empty Tomb
The gospels agree that the empty tomb was found by women (though not which women), but what did the women do?
Mark 16:8 - The women were amazed and afraid, so they kept quiet
Matthew 28:6-8 - The women ran away “with great joy.”
Luke 24:9-12 - The women left the tomb and told the disciples
John 20:1-2 - Mary told the disciples that the body had been stolen
Jesus’ Behavior After His Resurrection
If someone rises from the dead, his actions should be significant, but the gospels don’t agree on how Jesus first behaved
Mark 16:14-15 - Jesus commissions “the eleven” to preach the gospel
Matthew 28:9 - Jesus lets Mary Magdalene and another Mary hold his feet
John 20:17 - Jesus forbids Mary to touch him because he hasn’t ascended to heaven yet, but a week later he lets Thomas touch him anyway
Cline, Austin. "Jesus: Contradictions in Resurrection and Ascension." Learn Religions, Jun. 25, 2019, learnreligions.com/jesus-resurrection-and-ascension-contradictions-250145.
I think this has been answered already. The reckoning would not be the same we would reckon 3 days. In the Christian tradition, Jesus died on Friday (Day 1), still dead on Saturday (Day 2) and rose on Sunday (Day 3). Precise number of hours (as in 24hrs = 1 day) wasn't an issue for the early church followers and for them, they saw 3 days and counted it as 3 days. I'd venture to say that's how they would've reckoned it anyway.
@ JOC
Well, welcome back JoC. Ready to stretch your neck out on the block once again?
And for once I agree with you. Of course the proviso being, as you mentioned "In the Christian Tradition" which has nothing to do with veracity or historical fact. .
...*wiping hands on pants while exiting bathroom*... *sound of toilet flushing*... *looking up with blank stare of recognition*... JoC!... Hey, there.... JoC... Hey! Look, everybody! JoC is back!... Ummmm... Yeah... Uhh... *hands in pockets*... *awkwardly kicking at pebbles at feet*... Soooo.... Uh... Like, hip-hip... uh... hooray?.... Hmmm.... Yep.... *about face*... *stepping back into bathroom*... *closing door*...
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