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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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Perfection doesn't exist. What you mean by perfection is your own idea of such things. I can't possibly argue with your opinion. You are ridiculous.
In fact, your entire post is ridiculous. What evil would I be okay with a god that I don't believe exists would allow? Why don't you ask us to invent our own gods, would be a much more interesting post. We assign these terms to things like 'good' and 'evil' as a direct result of how those things affect us personally, not because of some inherent quality they possess. Stick a fork in me.
I don't want to stick a fork in you :) That would be evil.
Umm, moral perfection to most people means no evil... so I don't really think that is just my idea of moral perfection :)
Really? You've seen this moral perfection have you, or are you content to base your idea of perfection on what it means "to most people"? (big mistake in my humble opinion) Do you have some scale so I can judge how perfect your perfection is? NO. Why? Because as I already said, perfection does not exist, it is simply your idea of the definition of the word in whatever context you apply it to. The number of people that might share your idea is meaningless, off-topic and nothing more than your own reassurance.
EDIT: The definition of perfect includes 15 separate entries including context-specific entries for mathematics, music and grammar. But nothing on morality.
Evil isn't a secular issue. Nature shows us our primal tendency's, which contrast our higher mental faculties. The problem is that god claims to be all-knowing, all-powerful, etc, yet his character and the state of the world seem to be in opposition of this claim.
This is a valiant effort to address The Problem of Evil from a Christian theistic stance. I understand the desire to rationalize and explain away glaring inconsistencies, I was actually pretty good at it during my Christian tenure if I do say so myself. The problem with addressing The Problem of Evil is that there is no defensible stance to take in support of a benevolent god who would have the power to not allow evil yet doesn't. This is not a problem when posited against non-benevolent gods, such as the god described in the OT. Another problem is that it is not merely the fact that evil is present, but that humans seem to be more willing to do good (and arguably more capable of it) than the Christian god. And I've already anticipated the counterargument that God is working through the people who do good; that doesn't fly as it is still poses the problem of why does he let some people be healed by medicine or saved through peace accords, etc. and not others. There is no amount of evil that may be allowed to a benevolent god.
Thanks, my friend :) I definitely understand why "the problem of evil" is a pain in the rear for theists to deal with! Haha
What if he is benevolent-ish?
That would resolve the problem of evil. If you are willing to give up the notation of omnibenevolence, there is no more contradiction.
The problem of evil just requires that you give up ONE (or more) of the following:
omnipotence
omnipresence
omnibenevolence
Omnibenevolence would only be forfeit if you are willing to accept, that love cannot be administered through suffering.
I think love, and suffering, are often conflated as the same experience in faith - maybe like in the concept of 'sacrifice'?
In this way, then, god could be all three.
sorry if an omnibenevolent, all powerful, all knowing being existed suffering would not exist. But thanks for playing!
To me the OP's question is absurd.
"If the Christian god did exist, although you don't believe he does, what amount of evil would he be allowed to exercise for you to let him off the hook?"
This just seems like you're fishing for a way to rationalize you're own beliefs to yourself.
That is exactly what is going on; an intlligent and relatively reasonable person who is desperately trying to reconcile epistomological contradictions. It hurts the ego to encounter facts or logic which pose strong evidence against one's core beliefs. It may seem absurd, but I actually think it is to be expected and not unacceptable.
EDIT: I should caveat this post by saying this is what it seems like to me; I of course don't have intimate knowledge of the op's thought processes. I could be totally off-base.
I got more of a certitude vibe. The person seems to have strong conviction in their beliefs, so this appears less about ad hoc self-rationalization, and more like an attempt to develop a better apologetic. This seems less to me like a person going through a crisis of faith, and more like someone trying to fulfill the obligation laid out in 1 Peter 3:15. It seems to me to be less inspired by fear or frustration, and more about curiosity and determination, more the hallmark of someone trying to share their beliefs.
I have a tendency to be a tad Pollyanna when it comes to judging others' motives.
Haha, while I wouldn't say I was desperate, I am trying to answer the "problem of evil" bunny trails that have sprung. I see the "free will" defense isn't accepted here :) Which is fine.
I'm not trying to rationalize my own beliefs to myself :) I'm just really curious. What evil would atheists be okay with for you all not to use "the problem of evil" against Christians? The answer, as I've found, is none :) I asked a sincere question to get a sincere answer!
There is zero evidence that god exists, so this is a pointless model.
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