What exactly is consciousness?

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Travis Hedglin's picture
"Are you going to thank me

"Are you going to thank me for answering your question or are you just going to jump in only to point out things I did not do?"

I didn't ask any questions, I stated facts, like the sum of an infinite series of positive numbers CAN equal a finite number. I, actually, answered a direct question from YOU. I also posted a link so you could verify that not only is this well established, it has been known for quite some time, and you should avoid using that argument in the future. Why should I thank you for disseminating false information and attacking me?

"I claimed he is dogmatic like Christians and that he would rather die for his lover.

That is not considered flaming but claims which are clear and supported by facts."

Actually, that is flaming or baiting, and is nothing but your personal opinion.

"He always jumps to like Nyarlathotep, whatever Nyarlathotep says."

If Nyarlathotep said that 2+2=4, I would likely agree with him, and see no reason why I shouldn't. This is one of those times, he stated a FACT, the sum of an infinite series of positive numbers can equal a finite value, and you DISAGREED. You are welcome to disagree, despite the fact that you were demonstrably wrong about it, but you are NOT welcome to attack anyone who disagrees with you in return and insult their intelligence. That is immature. That is unnecessary. If you choose to do so, you will likely find your time here unproductive and unpleasant, as most of us will determine that you are simply too insulting and ignorant to deal with.

"It is in his right to do so but it is also in my right to display this stupid behavior."

The only persons "stupid behavior" you have displayed here, is your own.

"Now he is claiming that I flamed him, of course he is lying about it."

I will let your posts speak for themselves, mine as well. Hell, you are even welcome to take a vote on it, but I doubt you will be pleased with the result. You are aggressive, which is not necessarily a bad attribute in itself, but your behavior in this particular instance would be considered unacceptable in almost any setting.

CyberLN's picture
"As always you jump in to

"As always you jump in to sprout more nonsense and prove how ignorant in the subject you are."

"You have some serious mental issues."

"so go hide under a rock."

"...then you have mental issues."

"Tip: Stop showing your stupidity squared or I will report you for trolling and persecution with very stupid replies."

"Seriously go to school."

"...try and prove me wrong shows only how pathetic can you fall."

"reading your nonsense is hindering my IQ"

"...so go hide under a rock."

"you should be ashamed of yourself for supporting everything he says like a true christian. Dogmatic till the end.
Die with your lover."

"...since that is what it means to agree with such a fool. He cannot even count."

"Accept this fact or keep being his lover or his fan instead of thinking for yourself."

"Nyarlathotep just go back to school, if you even went there in the first place."

Originally, I did not point my post directly at you. However, these quotes are that to which I refer. Most were in response to posts that contained nothing similar, merely a disagreement with the previous post. These quotes are acerbic, unnecessary, unproductive, and undermine the debate. If you think they assist you in your arguments and counter argument, you are wrong. While I certainly understand frustration, passion, and even anger, telling someone they are stoopid (and the like) will not go very far in an attempt to sway them to your way of thinking. I'm suggesting you give the caustic comments a rest.

Go re-read your post in this string:


Jeff Vella Leone's picture
Yea they are right, they do

Yea they are right, they do not assist in my argument but they do make me feel better.

And I have given up on any "attempt to sway them to your way of thinking."

Those people cannot be swayed, so it is best they are ridiculed and exposed for what they are.

And I am still waiting for a 'thank you' for answering your question.

CyberLN's picture
That you feel better is

That you feel better is apparently all that is important.

You have no need to expose 'what they are', jeff. I already know. They are people who disagree with you.

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
“Ridicule is the only weapon

“Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
Thomas Jefferson

"They are people who disagree with you."
yes and if you been paying attention they were proven wrong.

Honesty is a virtue.

Jeff Vella Leone's picture

"They are people who disagree with you."
Yes they are, whatever I say they just try to ridicule my position.

In this case I was barely quoting the position of the entire scientific community on the subject at hand.

This is called persecution, they do not care what is my claim but because I claimed it, it must be wrong.

“Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
Thomas Jefferson

CyberLN's picture
Jeff, you see it as

Jeff, you see it as purposeful persecution? How are you sure of others' intentions? Are you persecuting when you disagree?

This is a debate forum. That's its purpose. By definition, debate includes disagreement. If being disagreed with, for whatever reason you conjure up, is not up your alley, then maybe this isn't the place for you. you always have the option to walk away if it's too uncomfortable for you.

Given that this is a debate forum, I'll engage in just that: I completely disagree that you are persecuted in this forum. I'll go on to say that, given your caustic comments, you, however, could be accused of doing so.

You have a lot to offer, Jeff. The decision to offer it in a way that either induces irritation or entices a compelling discussion is in your hands. Just saying...

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
Keep saying, I never expected

Keep saying, I never expected you to be unbiased here, so your opinion means nothing to me.

Everybody who watches this debate will see that they were completely wrong, and that Travis and Nap always agree with each other against me. (you can try and find where that didn't happen)
It is childish and that is why I ignore them in most cases.

You can put it under 'disagreement" because it sounds bad when you call persecution what it is, PERSECUTION, but it is there and if you were unbiased about it you would have at least said 'Thank You' when I gave you free information. out of my time instead of telling you to go and search it for yourself.

"The decision to offer it in a way that either induces irritation or entices a compelling discussion is in your hands. Just saying..."

I did not provoke nap in this discussion, he jumped in and said what I was saying was bullshit without supporting it.

Check who started it before claiming that I induced irritation.

Travis Hedglin's picture
If instead of dealing with

If instead of dealing with the subject at hand you are going to play the professional victim, and stoke up your persecution complex to an all time high, then there is no longer any reason for you to be here. The only thing I ever addressed was a claim you made pertaining to the sum of an infinite series of positive numbers, that is all, and apparently enough to get me attacked and insulted. You, sir, need to stop whining and own up to what you did, instead of blaming everyone else for your own failures. I sincerely hope that you learn to converse in a civil and mature manner, but given your shameless and juvenile display thus far, I won't hold my breath.

mysticrose's picture
Consciousness for me is the

Consciousness for me is the enlightenment of the mind and the awareness about the things around us.

FreeThinking's picture
I say consciousness is the

I say consciousness is the thing that truly exists, it brings order out of chaos...certainty; to be certain, is an awareness, a perception, it can only refer to a conscious entity. If there were no life in the universe, there wouldn't be certainty; how would such certainty be detected, quantified; what does certainty mean without an observer?

The focus of our awareness, or our current human perception, seems to be steadfastly gripped in the physical world. However, during brief moments, humans have reported the focus of their awareness going what or where we believe to be out of the physical.

In my interpretation of the structure of this physical cosmos, it seems as though the focus of our awareness is returning to our consciousness as we are dying. This is, going home. Like lifting your eyes from the eyepiece of a microscope and refocusing back on the macroscopic world you truly live in. Since my argument is that consciousness exists in an infinite domain, and is viewing events (perception only) as progressing asymmetrically forward, then I think the act of dying then is not a shift in our consciousness. Our consciousness is already elsewhere--even as I write this and you read it. Dying would be the shift in the focus of our awareness, our perception, from the physical--to wherever our consciousness actually is.

charvakan's picture
Consciousness is a byproduct

Consciousness is a byproduct of brain activity. As conscious beings, of course consciousness seems special. But we relinquish it every night, and our expectation that the waking brain state will reestablish consciousness is usually met, barring a medical or other calamity. We have an excellent idea how matter has become conscious, but there is no good explanation for how consciousness could bring about matter. Think about it: drugs or surgery alters consciousness, but mental powers do not alter the material world except through material means (muscles, tools, etc.). Matter existed, to the best of our knowledge, long before consciousness did, and it seems that matter would exist without benefit of conscious beings to observe it. When the brain dies, so does consciousness, as far as we can tell.

Brains model the environment as presented by the sense organs, an organism's internal state, and the relationships between the two, with the effect of preserving an organism's life and enhancing its chances to reproduce. When this modeling becomes sufficiently complex, the organism is conscious when awake and healthy. The "I" each of us experiences is how we organisms represent ourselves (the animals in our skins) in the model the waking brain constantly generates. Feelings and emotions result from comparisons between sensed internal states and external stimuli on the one hand and the optimum set points that are either instinctual (blood sugar levels, pain reception, etc.) or learned (familiar surroundings, no threats present, etc.). Those feelings (say fear or hunger) drive behavior that in healthy organisms promotes survival and (often) reproduction.

There's really no need to make this phenomenon any more marvelous than it actually is by tarting it up with New Age or mystical claptrap. It's like trying to make a butterfly prettier with a Bedazzler.


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