These are the prime questions that motivated man to create a god. The human brain developed to survive. Man's curiosity is what made him successful in competing in a dangerous world. But there is a cost. Man's curiosity also drove him to ask the two afore mentioned questions. These nagging questions plagued him. They begged to be answered. Eventually, one of the men (probably seeking a higher ranking position in the small band) decided he would invent an answer. That made up answer was a "god". Thus religion was born. Now to protect such a lie, the inventor had to protect it with some rules. Like "never question god" and "god moves in mysterious ways". Over the centuries, every culture came up with this scam. And every society fixed protections for their scam. Whenever a segment didn't want to obey the established lie they just created a new lie and left that society and started a new one. Thus the many different religions and variations of religions.
Now I don't exactly know where we come from beyond what science has discovered and proved, and I certainly don't know why we are here if for any reason (I don't think that there is a reason), but I DO know that I don't believe the lie. No reasonable person would or even could.
Now one might say that the fact that every society has some sort of religion proves that there is a reason and that that reason that there must be a god, but that simply isn't true. Every society invented pants and clothing as well. It just happens to be a common process.
I challenge anyone and everyone to answer these two prime questions. If you are an atheist, you will conclude that they are not answerable and may never be. If you are a believer you have to come to some point that you have to take a leap of faith to span the gap in logic and facts.
Where did we come from?
Why are we here?
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I believe we all came from womb by assertion of i am a father of 3 kids and god has no vagina as theists claimed never fuck with their god.
If human life as we know it, is running as a movie we can just play it back to see where it goes.
The evolutionist are more than happy to give the picture of the old world full of carnivores roaming the earth, deadly poisonous animals everywhere and the mother nature that run rain of disasters one after the other. Than the deadly disease constantly attacking the weak newly arrived human - which of course could not be in pair.
Did the evolution actually produced precisely pair of human so they could reproduce at the first go?
@KSL79: "I believe we all came from womb by assertion of i am a father of 3 kids and god has no vagina as theists claimed never fuck with their god"
Have you ever thought that when running the evolution backward you will find there was time where the penis and the vagina were not even exist? What was the method of the reproduction for the purpose of survival - before the penis and the vagina were not even there?
The more we think about it the more we see that this is not as easy as Richard Dawkins wish it to be.
Strawman. That is not a claim/prediction of the theory of evolution.
As usual zwalja you ignore facts which are all Dawkins refers to. He doesn't make any bold claims, doesn't profess anything that cannot and is not proven. He just denies that there is a god and the creationist theory because it has no basis in fact. If you have had any biology classes you would see that single cells divide and multiply. Funny how you think that a penis and a vagina are necessary to reproduce. 90 % of all living things do not use a penis and vagina to reproduce. Those anatomical features are fairly new developments.
I'm not sure how specific of an answer you are seeking but humans and other primates share a common ancestor. I do not know where the common ancestor came from but through evolution they were created. I am not sure the origins of our human consciousness which is why I believe so many people believe in a god. I believe we are here to serve and love God but I know that is not the answer you are looking for. If you take God out of the equation then there seems to be no purpose for us as a species. We find purpose as individuals. Whether God is apart of the origin of humans, I do not believe that one can truly say for certain why we are here.
Okay, a somewhat honest answer. You seem to partially believe in evolution even though evolution is a fact.
You said, " I am not sure the origins of our human consciousness which is why I believe so many people believe in a god." You think that "human consciousness" is the reason that people believe in a god. That should tell you that it is a concept rather than a fact. So why "serve" a concept?
I agree with you when you said, "We find purpose as individuals." That has to be the reality because that has always been the reality.
I do believe in evolution fully. I believe that human consciousness was given by God, we are the chosen species. As humans, I feel as though we have an extremely high sense of self awareness, something that does not exist in any other being on earth. How could our species develop this at such a fast pace? We have traced our origins pretty far back but as far as we know we are the only beings to develop an extreme self awareness. I believe in evolution but sometimes people do not realize how long the process is. I think God is a belief that developed from the human consciousness but the fact that we are capable of such could indicate that we are meant to find and discover God in our own time. There are many different gods throughout history and the idea of a god I feel developed from many different parts of the world. There is no human origin of when the idea of god came in existence but it did at some point possibly in multiple places at once and I take that we as a species we were close to discovering who the creator is. Even in science, you never really understand something right away but through trial and error you can make more confident inferences.
Well, you tried but you errored.
Many animals are self-aware, almost every mammal. If man made up god how could a god give man consciousness? that makes no sense whatsoever.
No, you are going to have to prove a god. Just thinking that there may be a god isn't justification for all the shit that is done in god's name.
Science really isn't trial and error. It's observation, test, and result.
How fast was this pace; and what would have been an acceptable pace it could have happened (without god)?
Fascinating. Why do you believe that a god or gods gave humans consciousness?
I did not say animals weren't self aware. I said humans have self awareness at an extreme level. God created man with self awareness. I don't need to prove God. God's existence cannot be disproven just as much as it can't be proven. Science involves trial and error. Sometimes the observations are deceiving to what is actually going on. Tests can be faulty. And results can be conflicting.
YOU DO have to prove god. Believers impose their religion their belief on all of us. I don't impose anything on anyone. I didn't invent a god, therefore I don't have to disprove a god. You say god created man. Well, prove it. You do have to prove it. I could make up anything but if I did so it is my responsibility to prove it.
If you think that about science, then you have no concept of science. Trial and error is a process for amateurs, not professionals. Scientist do make mistakes, but they retune their test, eliminate the mistakes, eliminate the variables.
You constantly claiming that God for a fact is not real is imposing your beliefs on others. I'm not trying to prove that God exists to you. I believe he exists but I'm not trying to force my ideas, just sharing them. I didn't invent God either, does this mean I don't have to prove his existence? My belief comes from experiences and a wealth of knowledge that date backs before science was even considered. Its not a fairytale I just decided to believe in. If you follow your logic then yes you do need to disprove his existence because you constantly claim it's a fact that he doesn't. Literally your last couple statements describe trial and error. My issue with your idea of science is that you claim it as facts. Science is comprised of various theories that are supported by results from experiments. You can hypothesis and your experiment will hopefully support your assumption but that's all the result can do. The results don't lead to facts.
MY beliefs? I don't have beliefs. For you to have any legitimate argument you have to prove your god. No, you didn't invent god but you bought into the fairytale. Personal experiences cannot be substantiated and therefore no evidence. You don't have any wealth of knowledge that predates science.
I didn't invent god so NO, I don't need to disprove him.
I challenge your account of the origins of religion.
The question that led to the formation, development and emergence of deities is more likely to have been "What caused that to happen?", which is exactly the same question that led to the formation, development and emergence of Scientific Theory.
"Where did we come from and why are we here?" are questions that a human with time for philosophical ponderings would ask and not an early human on the edge of proto-societies. 'Gods' were not formed from pre-existing metaphysical concepts, rather evolution favoured humans with an ability to concieve of and hold the concept of a disembodied sentient being as the cause of observed phenomenon, clearly giving them the survival edge over humans who could not, leading to the latter being made, for example, 'extinct by ambush'.
The creation of 'god-like' entities was driven by the evolutionary advantage the practicalities this kind of thinking gave us. You cannot uphold scientific principles as the universal measure of 'reason' then discard them in favour of a 'misguided navel-gazing' arguement (i.e. Where did we come from and why are we here?) when there is little to no evolutionary theory in support of that, just because it suits your arguement.
This is exactly why the 'flying spaghetti monster' (FSM) arguement falls down, because the FSM does not provide for a need that leads to an evolutionary advantage, where as 'gods' most likely did. We must understand the anthropoligical functionality of 'gods' and 'religion' before we are in a position to make a statement about their usefullness. That's the only position that stands to reason.
Of course, I don't know exactly how religion began, neither do you. That is a matter of speculation. The fact is that it came from imagination.
You're right, except that it is not "pure" speculation (insomuch as any scientific theory is not "pure" speculation but one hopes is, at worst, an educated guess) no one really knows how religion began but we do know that a pre-disposition for systems of belief is hardwired into our brains and Evolutionary Psychologists have really made great strides in modern understanding of our evolved psychologies through studying the psychological development of children as they grow, for example.
It stands to reason that one would be more inclinde toward the current scientific understanding if one is using scientific principles to reenforce a point... but then 'reason' is not always the desired end result, a fact I'm increasingly aware plays a part in modern dialogue.
I think that YOU may be claiming to be an atheist when in fact you may not be. Prove that humans are predisposed for systems of belief. I challenge that statement.
We came from years upon tears of evolution
Religion came from imagination...
Language and reason comes from our imagination too, should I reject that?
"Where did we come from and why are we here?"
Great thread starter and invite for discussion. I wish I had some coherent, plausible answer but I don't so I can only leave it alone and in the same spirit it was asked.
"As humans, I feel as though we have an extremely high sense of self awareness, something that does not exist in any other being on earth. How could our species develop this at such a fast pace?"
Humans have always rather killed out or bred out their predecessors and rivals. Neanderthal's were bred out while Denisovans and other hominids were killed out. (Most Europeans have Neanderthal in their DNA while most blacks do not.)
Most Religions were formed from simply not knowing something vast and then imagining something in its place. (Many religions have the sun and the moon as lovers.)
Organized religions usually serve a purpose, Catholics control and take money, some of it goes to the poor while a lot of it goes to priests and churches. (Why do you think their churches are so massive?)
While others such as the Vikings kept their people raiding, only keeping some of their spoils and burying the rest. Dying in battle was a surefire way of going to heaven. (Valhalla) kept their warriors fierce and fearless not too dissimilar from some Muslim sects promising 40 virgins for suicide bombers against infidels.
Not every society invented pants. Mostly only those that rode horses.
HAHAHAHA closet_atheist. I didn't know that. It makes sense though!