Why is Atheist Republic anti-Hindu Atheist ?

38 posts / 0 new
Last post
AlostAtheist's picture
Why is Atheist Republic anti-Hindu Atheist ?

The subject is self-explanatory. But let me expound on it a bit.

First, a little bit about Hinduism : This label did not exist prior to Islamic arrival into Indian subcontinent. If one goes back beyond 1200 years, there is ZERO reference to 'hinduism'. Not even Indians themselves used the word.
Indian schools of thought were just as diverse as the pre-Chrsitian Greek ones, if not more. Broadly speaking, it can be classified into two categories :
Astika (Divine) and Nastika (non-divine).

Simply speaking, a person/school of thought is 'Astika' if they believe in any one of the three :
a) Divine authority of the Vedas
b) Soul
c) creator God

Nastika is the opposite.

The arrival of Islam saw the coinage of the term 'Hinduism', where every single Indic school were lumped into. If one notices the Islamic works on India, no effort has been made to even differentiate between Jains,Buddhists and Hindus !!

Only the Jains & Buddhists were organized enough to maintain their separation from Hinduism, if not to the Muslims, atleast to the Indian communities.

As a result, under Hinduism, we have every single thing available under the sun - old vedic polytheism, Vedantic monotheism as well as atheism.

Charvaka is the official, atheist branch of Hinduism.
Here is the reference:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charvaka

As the reader will note, Charvaka is about rejection of all three 'Astika' principles and even rejection of Karma.

So my question is, why is a follower of Charvaka not acceptable to Atheist republic/why is Atheist republic denying Hindu Atheists ?

One would think, hindu atheists are natural allies, as we are the clearest, most obvious way to complete the turn of Hinduism into a cultural identity instead of a theological identity, yet, we are shunned.
Why ?

Subscription Note: 

Choosing to subscribe to this topic will automatically register you for email notifications for comments and updates on this thread.

Email notifications will be sent out daily by default unless specified otherwise on your account which you can edit by going to your userpage here and clicking on the subscriptions tab.

CyberLN's picture
You asked, "why is Atheist

You asked, "why is Atheist republic denying Hindu Atheists ?"

What prompted the suggestion that AR is doing so?

AlostAtheist's picture
CyberLN, because they banned

CyberLN, because they banned me from their Facebook group for explaining the exact same thing.

CyberLN's picture
I didn't do the banning do I

I didn't do the banning so I don't know for sure but I suspect there is far more to this than what you just said.

AlostAtheist's picture
You can find my post in

You can find my post in Facebook, if its still there ( i can't see the members section anymore), where the question was about 'What is Hinduism' and i responded. I was threatened by the moderator there saying 'one more reference to atheist hinduism and you will be banned' ( paraphrasing), which was carried through as i explained what atheist hinduism is.

Nyarlathotep's picture
AlostAtheist - So my question

AlostAtheist - So my question is, why is a follower of Charvaka not acceptable to Atheist republic/why is Atheist republic denying Hindu Atheists ?

I don't understand the question. In what way were you not accepted/denied?

Charvak's picture
@ ALOSTATHEIST

@ ALOSTATHEIST

I don't Understand what you mean that atheist republic is "Anti - Hindu atheist"

Atheist republic is welcome to all, atheists and theists. Its a place for everyone to share and debate ideas about religion.

So I don't understand what you mean to say when you say "Why is Atheist Republic anti-Hindu Atheist ?"

P.S.; you happened to mention the school of thought called Charvaka. would you care to enlighten us as to how many texts of that school of thought exist and whatever happened to the school of thought with all its texts. also please provide the only remaining mention of the school as it exists today.

AlostAtheist's picture
^

^
I posted the link to wiki, it covers all. Atheist republic is anti-hindu atheist, because they refuse to accept hindu is not just a theist identity, it is also a cultural identity.
Carvaka is not the only atheist school in Hinduism- Samkhya and Mimamsa are the other atheist schools, just not as explicitly as Charvaka.

Regardless, my beef is with the fact that Atheist republic refuses to accept Hinduism as a cultural identity which has 99% theist and 1% atheist people in it, with atheist philosophy incorporated in Hinduism.

Charvak's picture
See thats the problem. You

See thats the problem. You want atheist republic to adopt a religion as part of its atheistic stance. It is true that the Ancient Indian culture was all encompassing , with multiple schools of thought. However today, Hinduism is anything but.

today it is Sanathan Dharm, Hindutva, saffron Brigate , etc etc. The charvaka school of thought had its books burned and its people murdered all in the name of a Bhamanical society. Infant the only mention of Charvaka school of thought is in the Brihaspati samiti where it is mentioned that such a school existed and they are wrong.

Nobody is asking you to quit your Hindu beliefs, however you insisting that AR recognise Hinduism as atheistic is ridiculous. Even the atheistic traditions of buddhism and jainism are bogged down with superstition and dogma.

AlostAtheist's picture
As I have explained, hinduism

As I have explained, hinduism is not just a religion, its also a culture and philosophy spectrum today. Today's Hinduism is also encompassing of multiple schools and thought- there are the mainstream theistic Hindus, there are many, many atheistic Hindus who fall under the minority schools.

As for Charvaka - we have no evidence that it was exterminated prior to the arrival of Islam. Infact, the extinction of Charvaka and Ajivika are around the same time as the Ghurid empire's conquest of India. Today, Charvaka, Ajivika, etc. are all classified under Hinduism. This makes atheism a part of Hinduism.

Being bogged down with superstition and dogma is irrelevant to being an atheist. It is also disingeneous, as it obscures the fact that dogma is not just the domain of the theist- every single political theory is a dogma, for instance and also that there are plenty of western atheist people who are also superstitious.
Every time someone says 'Good luck man/playoff beard/etc', they are indulging in superstition.

LogicFTW's picture
Definition of atheist is: "a

Definition of atheist is: "a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods."

Definition of god is: "a superhuman being or spirit worshiped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity."

From what I read from alostatheist, he fits that definition.

I could practice all the culture, do all the rituals, of Christianity, but simply in my head, not believe in the god part of it, and I could call my self a christian atheist. However I would expect saying that, it would create a lot of confusion too.

As another thread talked about, many of us take some part in various religious culture/influence, saying things like "bless you" or terms like god damn it. Or following a religion based calendar. It may prove quite difficult to fully divorce our selves from all influence of religions.

xenoview's picture
How can you call it Atheism,

How can you call it Atheism, if it's part of the Hindu religion?

AlostAtheist's picture
Because Hindu religion is,

Because Hindu religion is, strictly speaking, not entirely a religion ?
As I said, people think Hinduism is a religion because thats what they've been taught. But in reality, its an 'ism' like 'western-ism' - overwhelming majority are theists, but a small minority of atheists are also lumped in as the same. This is because for the last 1000+ years, atheist schools like Charvaka, Mimamsa, Samkhya have all been under the banner of Hinduism.

SecularSonOfABiscuitEater's picture
As far as I know, The Atheist

As far as I know, The Atheist Republic is not obligated to "accept" any religion. Christianity gets a big spotlight because a lot of our fellow members are ex-christian. Don't you think this would be the case if there were more ex-Hindus here? But there are only a handful of us.

Hinduism's earliest recordings are dated back to around 1500 BC whereas Islam is 7th century.

"Charvaka is the official, atheist branch of Hinduism"

That is an oxy-moron. A branch of a religion, is still a branch of a religion. Regardless of how you put it, it still associates with a religion. Atheism is precisely NOT that.

AlostAtheist's picture
My point is, Hinduism isn't

My point is, Hinduism isn't just a religion. Its a culture and a compilation of religion & non-religious works. As i said, if you look at Arab & Persian works- ANY of them (and i can provide translations of the original), they refer to all of us as 'Hindu'. Including the Buddhists. You know what they call buddhists in most instances ? 'shaven headed hindus'. That occurs a lot more than 'worshippers of Boddo'.

You simply see it as a religion, because thats what you've been told. In reality, Hinduism is not a religion, its a religion + philosophy. 99% of Hindus are theists, following Vedic stuff. 1% is atheist, following non-vedic, non-theist stuff called Carvaka.
Think of hinduism as analogous to 'Greek-ism' : it would contain Orthodox Christianity, Platonic thought, etc- all forms of religion & philosophy practiced by the Greeks through the ages. Now, 99% of 'Greek-ism' would be Orthodox Christians today. Same with Hinduism. 99% are theist Vedanta practitioners. There is the 1% that are lumped along- who are atheist. Its not an oxymoron, its simply the fact that atheist schools are lumped under hinduism as well and have been for 1000+ years.

So why are the atheist Hindus being disenfranchised ?

SecularSonOfABiscuitEater's picture
I saw your post that way not

I saw your post that way not because of what I have been told. It's because you didn't say what you just said in your response to me. What you said there.. I can definitely understand. Now let's talk about the rest of what you said. You're saying that 99% of the Hindu population are theist and 1% are not. Ok let's consider that. Now 1% of the ENTIRE Hindu population is not being recognized and because of that... it's no surprise to me that a website originating from North America is not to aware of that small group of people. I live in NY. Those of us here either believe or not. We don't choose any belief system regardless if it rejects gods or not. Atheism is free of that kind of compartmentalization.

AlostAtheist's picture
What part of 'atheists get

What part of 'atheists get lumped in with theists under Hinduism' implies belief ? And yes, everyone believes in something - its called politics. Whether you believe in democracy, theocracy, autocracy or even anarchy, those are all belief systems- they are not empiric truths either.

I realize that North Americans are ignorant about finer points regarding Hinduism. That doesn't give someone the right to discriminate, its an opportunity to learn. You can verify the notion that Hinduism is a cultural tag, by investigating the schools of atheism like Charvaka, Mimamsa, Samkhya under it. Its not 'my' view, it defines millions of atheist Hindus.

SecularSonOfABiscuitEater's picture
Do not get an attitude with

Do not get an attitude with me because you presented your case poorly lol

The more you explain yourself the better. We will read and consider what you're saying.

By the way, I am well read in my culture thank you very much. If you want representation then represent & stop acting like a freaking victim. No one is disenfranchising you here on this site. We even debate with theists of all walks right here daily. It's also clear that no one here had anything to do with your drama on facebook. So you might want to change your approach here because your current approach isn't working.

AlostAtheist's picture
I presented my case poorly ??

I presented my case poorly ??
I am sorry, but did you even read the link provided ?
Or really understand my analogy of 'Greek-ism' with Hinduism ?

If the answer to either one of those is 'yes', then i fail to see how you can come to a logical conclusion that atheist hinduism is still a belief system.

I *AM* being disenfranchised- unless this site is completely separate from the Facebook group of the same name ( if so, i'd suggest you folks sue them for copyright infringement). This is because you, like rest of the team on Facebook, are refusing to accept the fact that Hindu atheists exist and to deny full priviledges to Hindu atheists on the site, is discrimination against Hindu atheists.

SecularSonOfABiscuitEater's picture
Yeah but dude you're bitching

Yeah but dude you're bitching about it on a debate forum lol. Scroll down and take it to site support.

AlostAtheist's picture
I put this in a debate forum,

I put this in a debate forum, because it is a topic of debate as to why Hindu Atheists are not welcome at The Atheist Republic.

SecularSonOfABiscuitEater's picture
That's fine, although I'd

That's fine, although I'd think it's possible that you can achieve some results there. Perhaps better answers to your questions.

xenoview's picture
AlostAtheist

AlostAtheist
You have failed to prove evidence of you being banned or denied access to AR.

AlostAtheist's picture
I can't see the discussion

I can't see the discussion board, all my previous comments are gone and I've been told by a moderator there that I am banned. Isn't that enough ?!

xenoview's picture
I don't know what you posted

I don't know what you posted that got you banned. The issue about you being banned is over, you got banned for breaking the rules. You are not banned at the AR forums. Stop playing the victim card on this forum.

AlostAtheist's picture
But thats the thing- i didn't

But thats the thing- i didn't break any rules. I specifically said in the Facebook site that i am an atheist Hindu and that was specifically given as the reason i was banned.

MCD's picture
Shunned by whom? By this

Shunned by whom? By this website? How are your shunned? Please explain.

chimp3's picture
Alostatheist: Welcome! Hindu

Alostatheist: Welcome! Hindu atheism sounds interesting. What makes Hindu atheism different from any other kind? I understand atheism to be simply a lack of belief in a deity. I never thought of myself as an American atheist vs. a Canadian or Japanese atheist. What makes Hindu atheism so unique?

AlostAtheist's picture
Hindu atheism is simply an

Hindu atheism is simply an atheist seeing themselves as an atheist and also as a Hindu.
To most laymen, it sounds contradictory. But it is not. You don't think of yourself as an American atheist/ Canadian atheist but if you consider yourself an American/Canadian, then you most likely think of yourself as an American/Canadian and also an atheist. I am a Canadian and an atheist, for example. Hindu atheist matters, because we've been ignored for the last thousand years and still are today.
Ie, we still have to justify to our atheist kindred (as is the case here), why/how we can be Hindu and atheist at the same time. Hence we identify with being Hindu atheists.

Neither is it the same sophistry as 'Atheist Christians/Athiest Muslims'.
This is because while the term 'atheist' and 'christian/muslim' are incompatible, in the fundamental tenet of their religion, it is not with Hinduism. This is because there hasn't been a single muslim/christian theologian or scholar, who've accepted the notion of 'atheist christian/muslim'. It is also a direct diktat in their religion to not be atheist. While in Hinduism, there are several major theologians & schools that accept atheism: Swami Vivekananda accepts atheism as Hinduism. So does the controversial V. Savarkar (note : I am not a fan of Savarkar personally. That doesn't change the fact that this guy was and still is a renowned Hindu scholar). So does many a swami. I can cite works of prominent Indian scholars - such as the Marxist Debiprasad Chattopadhyay- who considered themselves avowed 'Hindu atheists'.

The reason is simple, because the Hindu identity owes itself to Islamic servitude. We've never called ourselves Hindu,till the muslims started to rule over us. Not only that, the word 'hindu' isn't used by any Chinese scholar that visited and wrote about India in the 1st millennium CE. From Faxian to I-Tsing, the word 'hindu' is absent.

The word itself is a Persian word, imported to Indian identity via the Persian-ized Turks & the subsequent Muslim rule.
The muslims themselves rarely make distinctions between Hindus, Buddhists and Jains. The reference to Jains by their name is extremely rare in Muslim literature. We are all 'hindus'.

Now, Buddhists and Jains remained separate to us Indians, owing to the simple fact that despite falling steeply in numbers over the subsequent centuries, Buddhism and Jainism represented significant minority population of India in 1st millennium CE. India, for example, was host to several massive Buddhist universities that failed during & or directly due to Islamic conquest of Indian subcontinent.
A host of minority schools - like Charvaka, Mimamsa, Samkhya, etc. were lumped in with Hinduism and were neither large enough, nor diversely present enough to survive the Islamic onslaught. Bear in mind, being atheist in 900s-1300s AD, to invading Islamic armies usually meant instant death.

This, is the history of Hindu atheist in a nutshell.

Whether Athiest Republic likes it or not, the simple fact remains : Atheism is a simple lack of belief in a creator God and there are millions of Hindu atheists, who identify both as Hindu and atheist.

You may ask 'well if you are an atheist, wha is hindu to you that is not atheist' ?
The answer is simple:
a) I enjoy my festivals. We don't care if Durga is real or not, we care about the yearly investment in organization, art-work, the gathering, the food at hand. Unlike Christians or Muslims, our religious celebration does not strictly revolve around religion. Infact, as a participant in my own neighbourhood Durga Puja, i can state, that 80% of people don't spend a moment in worship or go by the actual priest to participate in the puja. They see the statues, listen to the traditional beats, then beeline for the food and move on to the next neighbourhood.

b) To be hindu, is to accept and identify with the culture of India as the predominant identifier. Just like how one identifies culturally as 'western', so too many hindus identify with 'hinduism' on a cultural basis.

To ignore us, is to ignore practically the largest chunk of non-Chinese, non-western Atheists on this planet.

SecularSonOfABiscuitEater's picture
Much better. I see what you

Much better. I see what you mean now.

chimp3's picture
So Hindu is your cultural

So Hindu is your cultural identity. What I asked is how your atheism differs from other atheists? Atheism is a lack of belief in gods. How is Hindu disbelief different than Canadian disbelief?

Pages

Donating = Loving

Heart Icon

Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.

Or make a one-time donation in any amount.