"Will Misogyny Bring Down The Atheist Movement?"

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CyberLN's picture
If the definition of the word

If the definition of the word prejudice is: preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or data, then it may be an even more appropriate word.

Travis Hedglin's picture
True, but we are also

True, but we are also discussing the reason behind the prejudice, not just the prejudice itself. Fear is much the same animal as hate, but it is usually more personal and much harder to change. Phobias in particular are really difficult for people to cope with, I have seen my mother almost climb a vertical wall with no handholds or help to get away from a tiny spider, and I doubt any reasonable argument I could provide would have likely changed her prejudice against them. It is always difficult to reason someone out of a prejudice, as they didn't reason themselves into it in the first place. Doubly so when it is based on personal experiences. I also find it interesting when people trying to reason with others with such prejudices pretend to listen to the opinions and concerns of the people that hold them, and instead of dispelling them with actual reason or data, simply dismiss them.

Truly, I have to wonder if such tactics are really aimed at making allies, or exacerbating an already hostile attitude...

CyberLN's picture
I think fear could be one

I think fear could be one reason. Another, perhaps, is a need to feel superior (usually borne of an actual sense of being inferior).

And I'm totally with your mother on the spider thing.

Travis Hedglin's picture
Well, an inferiority complex

Well, an inferiority complex could be a factor, but I think a great deal more of it is fear. Marriage seems to becoming unpopular, for both sexes, and more and more children are being seen as a burden rather than a blessing. I don't mean to sound too backwards and primitive here, but whatever happened to the average American family with 2.5 kids and a pet? I mean, I never understood how one has .5 kids, but people seem to be abandoning the nuclear family in droves. Why does it seem that the relationship between men and women seems to be becoming dysfunctional as society progresses, and what can or should we do to fix it?

ThePragmatic's picture


These kind of statements are really counter productive.
Breaking you comment down, you might not mean what it sounds like. But to me, it sounds like you are claiming that women are dishonest and that monkeys are smarter.

If you don't intend to say such things, you really should make an effort to use better wording.

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
Since you asked.

Since you asked.

What is wrong with that statement?

"Frakly, out of all the dishonesty, exaggerations and absurdities you have claimed thus far, I am starting to doubt that you are actually a man lol"

It is clear that dishonesty is being referred to the person in question here.

"I am starting to doubt that you are actually a man lol"

Yep I doubt that he is honest about his own gender description that he gave to the forum.

It has nothing to do with the concept of being a woman = dishonesty at all.

It is bias that makes people think in this manner.

"But to me, it sounds like you are claiming that women are dishonest and that monkeys are smarter."
You are wrong, as simple as that.
You are making a conclusion based on the bias that some people think that "a man cannot reason like that".

It is clear as day that I'm talking about Mitch not about woman/man there, since he is the one that claimed that woman are as strong as man and he is the one who has been dishonest.

I did not mention woman in that statement but a monkey = a pun that a monkey(not a man) has more knowledge then Mitch.

Even if Mitch was a woman, he surly does not represent all the woman, so I really do not get where are you getting the concept "that women are dishonest and that monkeys are smarter."????

"If you don't intend to say such things, you really should make an effort to use better wording."

And maybe reasonable people should ask for clarification before jumping to conclusions based on bias.(not referring to you)

Nyarlathotep's picture
dude, just stop digging your

dude, just stop digging your hole deeper...

CyberLN's picture
The Sisyphus do hole diggers,

AThe Sisyphus of hole diggers, eh?

ThePragmatic's picture
"What is wrong with that

"What is wrong with that statement?"

Well, actually just that which I already wrote.

As you did now, breaking it down and analyzing it, you can defend it part for part.
But when the parts are read in conjunction with each other, it's easy to interpret as "women are dishonest and dumber than monkey's"

"It is clear as day ..."

To you, who wrote it and know what you mean by it, yes I'm sure it is clear as day.

What you wrote in this analysis of your comment, is not at all self evident in the actual comment, instead it's wide open for enterpretation. And that is my whole point.

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
Ok i agree that I could have

Ok i agree that I could have been more clear to avoid bias interpretation.

But I was baiting Mitch to answer it in a biased way.

oddly enough there are more biased people on this forum then i would like.

"instead it's wide open for enterpretation."
It is not if you actually read it in an unbiased way.

If you understand that I only applied "dishonest" about Mitch attitude which is a fact.(first part of sentence)
The rest is quite obvious that Mitch claimed he is a man and I did not believe him.

If on the other hand you made the biased assumption that "if Mitch is dishonest then he cannot be a man" claim said by an accused biased man(jeff) then yes you would fall for that interpretation.

Which was what I wanted Mitch to say to prove that he was the one biased not me.

ThePragmatic's picture


I have liked a lot of what you have had to say, and I have learned some good things from you.
I agree with you about working against discrimination against women, but you have completely gone off the bend here...
You are throwing around accusations like it's confetti and you're more or less demanding the Atheist Republic to do something about the sexists comments.

Isn't debating allowed? If someone doesn't agree with you, should they be silenced? Who gets to be the judge of who gets to be silenced, you? That isn't debating.

"As we stand right now, as a community of atheist, I do not think this forum is safe."

What in the name of rational discourse is that supposed to mean??
What hidden implication is behind this comment?

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
Glad we are finally on the

Glad we are finally on the same page, he started this topic "throwing around accusations like it's confetti".

Accusing Hitchens and Richard Dawkins of false things just because they are men who spoke against some feminists.

I'm still shocked why only I took that as an act of dishonesty.

ImFree's picture
Don’t feel alone; it was a

Don’t feel alone; it was a stretch of the imagination.

Travis Hedglin's picture
So, what prejudiced claims

So, what prejudiced claims have been made so far? I haven't been paying attention to the first 3-4 pages of the thread for reasons already mentioned, has anyone been keeping up with it?

Nordic Fox's picture
In large, Atheists are

In large, Atheists are generally more fair-minded folk. A few celebrities saying things without thinking beforehand brings a bad image onto us.

However... A slip of speech in the 21st century cannot scratch the surface of the sexist, anti-female tendencies of christianity, islam and even judaism.

In christianity alone, the bible outright blames women for just about everything wrong with humanity... Temptation, lust, infidelity, incest (in the case of Lot, who was made a saint after his daughters drugged him, slept with him and he gave them to an angry mob to be gang-raped).... The list goes on and on.

I'm very happy we have women's rights, and as a son of a single mother, I find that many women have strength that is admirable on levels that are hard to understand, as a man, a son, and a friend of many strong women.

I think the worst insult against women are some of the breakoff religions... mormonism especially seems to target women, to prey upon familial ties in order to powerfully utilize brainwashing tactics.

Nevertheless, I think some celebrities of every belief, background and career find times where they need to put a foot in their mouth!

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
well said.

well said.
I totally agree.

Atheists in large are much more friendly towards woman then religious people.

Nordic Fox's picture


And definitely, I know for sure I don't judge a woman based on some book from ancient times when I meet here.... I would probably only judge (anyone) on personality and how they carry themselves.

Regardless of gender, people have equal capability of being good/bad, nice or rude.

We just gotta do our best to avoid the jerks in life and all will be well!


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