“Picking quarrels and provoking trouble" is a vaguely defined charge often used by Chinese authorities to target activists and dissidents, which carries a prison sentence of up to five years.
Would you provoke or pick???
Under my current circumstances...no. In 5 years? Most likely.
Under current circumstances...would try to stay off the radar. In 5 years - most likely accept “no one even knowing I was there (jail)”
Why the 5 year difference? Because I’d want to get some shit in place first and ensure my kids well being before I opened my mouth that the authority wanted to keep shut.
Now this is of course a mental daydream. IRL, I have no idea how I’d really respond or react to this type of censorship - also, not raised in that controlling of an environment (govt) - yet, when I was “ready”, I did walk away from a life of “religious acceptance”.
Your thoughts??? What do you imagine yourself doing or responding?
Choosing to subscribe to this topic will automatically register you for email notifications for comments and updates on this thread.
Email notifications will be sent out daily by default unless specified otherwise on your account which you can edit by going to your userpage here and clicking on the subscriptions tab.
I don't even have to read the post. YES BABY YES!!! *SPUTTER --- Looking around.* What the fuck did I just say "Yes" to? I better go read the post!
It's a bit like Going to Mecca, sneaking your way into the Kabul, and shouting "Allah is a FUCKTARD!" I think I will pass. I can think of better things to do with five years of my life.
I have a plan to move to Cherokee Village Arkansas. BIBLE COUNTRY. My hope is to begin an Atheist organization. American Atheists is looking for reps. Contacts around America, I would like to be one...... I think,.. I look at it as doing something productive in my old age.
Ya, but allah is an imaginary fucktard. :D
Thanks for the opening brother.
I could be mistaken but saying "Allah is a fucktard" in kabul won't get you five years, it will probably get you killed.
Cog...good point! Yup I think until there is some type of mass dismantling, I’d keep my head down - yet be ready to run to the “wall” (reference Berlin)
I do, in my own little ways, let my insignificant voice be heard in my area. You’d be surprised how “one voice” can get something done. It’s knowing also when to “shut up”...
I’d love to see you set something like that up in Arkansas! Lol!
And...whenever a poster “wants or asks ‘should they come out’?” My first advice has always been “is it physically safe???”
If I was born there, I would be in jail. I have a life-long history of issues with authority.
If I was a visitor, I know enough to keep my yap shut.
p.s. an example: I was in a disciplinary hearing and I said to the asshole trying to screw me over .......... "Why haven't you kissed me in the mouth? If you are going to fuck someone you should at least kiss them in the mouth".
The reason we are on this round globe like planet, is to survive...I try not to do anything counterintuitive to survival. Yes I have conviction of my beliefs, just like the nut heads...but not to the point of death.
And risk my 5 years in a Chinese prison? Not your life!
I have little interest in hypothetical questions because I can never be certain how I would behave in a given situation;
Intellectually, there are no ideas or rights for or which I am willing to go to prison or to die. Nor any person.
I have no idea how I would react faced with reality .
As a teen and young adult, I was very big on what today are called human rights, especially my own. Then I was tested:
At 20 I was conscripted. There was a very strong chance I would be sent to Vietnam. I opposed conscription and the Vietnam war.
My choices were : (1) Allow myself to be inducted into the army. (2) Go to Canada to live with relatives and study ,with no idea when I would return (3) refuse and be sent to prison for 2 years. PLUS lose my civil service job . Plus never be employed again by the civil service because of the criminal record I would have.
What would you do? I chose (1) and allowed myself to be inducted into the army.
Because of a happy accident of being in the right place at the right time, I avoided going to Vietnam. That was from the reinforcement centre for Vietnam .
I have alway seen allowing myself to be conscripted an act of moral cowardice. I would repeat it in a heartbeat. I'd rather be immoral than dead or in prison
Five years imprisonment for just disturbing the peace? No way. At the very least I would want to set fire to some Nazi Party social club house for that sort of time and even then I wouldnt want to advertise the fact (just pretend you didnt just read what I wrote and keep mum ok?)
I've been lucky. The 60s 70s and early 80s were the decades of Protest and disturbing the peace of conservatives.
In the late 60s and early 70's when I was younger I spent a good deal of time participating in rowdy what-do-we-want-when-do-we-want-it street protests and was regarded as a inspired protest banner artist. One such set of protests was to keep the government from conscripting Cranky and sending him to Vietnam to get his nuts shot off. Sorry, Cranky we couldn't keep you out of Malaysia or where-ever it was you were sent.
I maintained my rage in 1975 demonstrations against the Fraser Liberal Party's Machiavellian screwing of constitutional decency in the Dismissal of the democratically elected Gough Labor Government.
I participated in demonstrations outside Australia's only nuclear reactor at Lucas Heights on several occasions. It helped to live local.
I protested in 1979 to support the Labor Government's ban on uranium exports. Then I returned to the streets in 1981 to protest against the Labor Government's lifting of the ban on uranium exports. I protested against the French nuclear testing in the Pacific. Protested outside the French Embassy in Canberra against the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior. Save the Whale, Apartheid, the Great Barrier Reef, National Parks, preserving the breeding grounds of several species of native bird life, the extermination of the introduced Indian Rat Bird and what-else have you got? etc etc.
By 1984 I was worn out and the parent of two toddlers. So, between nappy changes and bottle feeds, I wrote letters of protest to newspaper editors and my government representatives, until Rupert Murdoch was permitted by the next Liberal government to control the media in Australia, which I also protested against.
And never once was I arrested, tried or sent to prison, cautioned or told off. I was lucky. I'm done protesting. It didnt really change anything and now we have close surveillance and monitoring technology and unconstitutional laws of detainment without charge and for up to 40 days at the discretion of the potato headed minister for national security, similar to those the Nazi party would have favoured.
The current government is now looking at prison sentences for people who protest against environmental issues like climate change. It's a nastier world. You never know, there still might come a time when one has to stand up for basics legal rights for oneself and others, and face the unpleasant prospect of jail time. Its happened to better people than me. The legacy of C19 might make it a distinct possibility in the uncertain future, and I've had a mild prison experience already in this lockdown, but I'd really rather not and most certainly not in a Chinese prison.
"Sorry, Cranky we couldn't keep you out of Malaysia or where-ever it was you were sent."
No need to apologise old boy. Malaysia was considered a holiday posting. Wives and kids went too. The army was obliged to hire X number of locals. So the married guys had amah's for their nice house and kids. There were women (and blokes) who went back to Oz having never washed a dish or changed a nappy.
In barracks, we had our boots and brass kept clean and all of our washing done. That was $2.00 a week. We were also paid a special a Zone allowance and paid only 50% tax. (Blokes in Vietnam were paid a higher Zone allowance and paid no tax. Quite right too)
I went over as a stretcher bearer, after a 2 week course. There was a shortage of medics, so I became a medic, learning on the job. I loved that job. In the last month before I returned. to Oz, I designed and taught first aid courses for the grunts. Was even able to use real blood for the fake combat wounds . One bloke threw up. My boss, the MO was delighted.
After 8 months in Malaysia the battalion moved to Singapore where I served 6 months.I hated 2 things about being in Malaysia; Going out bush on exercise for up to a month at a time. Also loathed the army; most of the career officers** were so fucking STOOPID!. However, I got far more out of the experience than the army got out of me.
---At the same time , there were blokes from my intake in Vietnam getting their arses shot off. One was a bloke I knew from school. He copped a load of rocket shrapnel up his back and came home TPI at 21. Illogical perhaps, but I felt guilty. .
**There were a couple of nasho officers. The best officer in the battalion was a nasho. His name was Jeff Kennet.Easily the smartest and most humane officer there. Wicked sense of humour, which was always getting him into trouble. I heard that after he left the army he went into politics.
It’s funny, I read everyone’s comments and could relate in some way to what everyone said.
“... until e Rupert Murdoch was permitted by the next Liberal government to control the media in ...” Don’t mind my changing Australia to EVERYWHERE
I don't mind your change at all...its only true.
I was always taught to never start a fight, and to even avoid a potential fight whenever possible. However, if one was ever brought to me that I could not avoid, then I should hit fast hit hard and finish it as quickly as possible. And "fair play" is not an option.
That being said, I am something of a strange mix. On one hand, I genuinely prefer to avoid confrontations whenever possible. Especially if it involves friends and/or family. And I have been known to go out of my way to resolve situations without having to resort to anger/violence. At the same time, though, there is a part of me that does enjoy a good fight. And there are situations I can think of where I would not hesitate in attempting to lay waste to an offender. Otherwise, though, I prefer to choose my battles wisely if given the option. (Especially now that I older and slower... *chuckle*...)
With that in mind, having spent a large portion of my life working within the government in a military and enforcement capacity, one thing I learned is that trying to take on the "establishment" as an individual is a foolish and self-defeating exercise in futility. Might as well take a straw and a handful of spitballs to a armored tank battle. I know most people don't like hearing that, but it does not change the fact it is true. Despite what seems to be "popular belief", the government as a whole, and the elitist politicians in particular, DO NOT care about the common people and DO NOT have their best interests at heart. Sadly, that's just the way it is, in my opinion.
So, when it comes to the question of whether or not I would "provoke or pick a fight" with the powers that be, the answer is, "No." Even though I was very vocal and outspoken in regards to some of the nonsense I observed/experienced at various moments during my career, those rants were typically directed toward immediate supervisors or maybe just a level or two above them. (And, yes, they did get my ass disciplined a time or two... or three or four or... *grin*...) But I have zero interest in becoming a martyr for a lost cause. There is absolutely nothing I can do or say that can stop the monstrous machine that now controls our governments. Therefore, my plan is to simply live as peacefully and as happily as I can now for as long as allowed, while at the same time being prepared to defend my home and family against the fight I hope never arrives.
Oh my goodness Tin that first paragraph warmed my heart. Taught my boys the same “discipline” and “just because it’s legal/illegal” doesn’t make it right/wrong- but that’s a whole other discussion.
My oldest was about 7. Regular school, regular skinny, tall kid. There were 2 bullies at school (gr 3; 8 yr olds). There was a “playground monitor”. My oldest would at time tell me stories of these bullies with other kids, stories of how the other kids told the monitor/teachers/parents, etc and nothing was ever done. Anyway, these 2 found a kindergartener to “pick on one day”- wasn’t enough to tease and make him cry (which got my kid’s attention) but they decided to push and then one kicked him. My kid was in there faster than shit and fucked both boys up...got a call from the principal (he was suspended). I bought him McDonalds and told him he did a great job. The mother of the 5 year old called, crying and thanking him for standing up for her little guy. She had talked to the school a few times, but they weren’t doing anything.