Zhuan Falun ( Turning The Law Wheel )

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EnergyGem's picture
Zhuan Falun ( Turning The Law Wheel )

Hi all,

I've come across a fascinating book that talks about high level spiritual things from a scientific perspective. This book is intriguing as it talks about many similar things to what people in mystical states mention such as seeing into parallel dimensions and interacting with beings from other worlds etc.

This book is called Zhuan Falun and it is from the Buddha Law School of Cultivation however it is not Buddhism the religion or Daoism the religion, it's something more profound. It seems to me to be more of a spiritual science as many of the terms and concepts in the book are talked about in a scientific down to earth manner instead of flowery mystical prose which I found very refreshing.

Now here is where it gets interesting, this book talks about the following things:

● Other Dimensions - Levels Of Dimensions spanning into the microcosm and also outwards into the macrocosm

● The Soul - It talks about people having a Master soul and a subordinate soul which is hidden from you but is at a more advanced level then you, it states some people have more then one Subordinate soul and some are of not of the same sex as you i.e males having a female subordinate soul etc.

● Microcosmic worlds - This concept was very far out but it talks about there being worlds within you, countless worlds. Similar to our world with life , water, animals etc. An analogy is zooming an an atom within one of your cells and realizing at that level of magnification it is just like our solar system. Then zooming into a single particle in that world and finding out it too is a vast world, apparently the level it can go onwards like this is beyond imagination.

● Supernatural Abilities - In the book they mention that everyone has them it is just that they have atrophied. It goes into depth about this topic. Some abilities that are mentioned are precognition, retrocognition and remote vision.

● The 3rd Eye - Talks about how at the front part of our pineal gland there is a complete structure of an eye there. Modern science calls it a vestigial eye but in the cultivation world they say this eye just naturally exists like that and it can be activated allowing one to pierce through this dimension and see other dimensions. It talks about how there are many levels to this 3rd eye and it goes into great depth about it.

● Thoughts - This part was amazing. It talks about how a human brain is just a processing plant. How the real you is actually your soul, it's like your whole body and brain is just a vehicle and that the true commands are issued by your master soul, but this master soul is very tiny and it can switch positions while inside you and it can also expand and shrink. It can move from your brain to your heart and to other parts of your body and it is 'he' who calls the shots. Your brain is just the factory which your master soul sends his cosmic commands to which then create the forms of expression and communication we use such as speech, gestures, etc.

These are just a few things that are covered but there are many many other things which blew my mind when I read it because of how it resonated with some of the mystical experiences people sometimes have, especially the multidimensional nature of reality and how all of them are hidden in our day to day perceptions of the world.

If this sounds interesting to anyone you can grab a copy of the book here:




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mykcob4's picture
Looks like a bunch of

Looks like a bunch of bullshit hocus pocus to me. Not scientific at all. More like spiritual speculation.

EnergyGem's picture
Actually Falun Dafa has been

Actually Falun Dafa has been tested under scientific conditions. It's still in the early stages of being researched but here is one test result:


(other research done by the same scientist can be found here: http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/content/55/5/821.full )

chimp3's picture
OK. I read through both of

OK. I read through both of those "research" papers. The second one seems like a legitimate description of a series of chemical reactions. Way beyond my understanding. The first is a second hand account of woo woo in the lab. Hearsay. A good scientist resists multiplying assumptions. The meditator has simply placed his hands near the tissue. The assumptions about energy fields or the tissues reaction to it are unwarranted.

mykcob4's picture
So what. Science always tests

So what. Science always tests environmental effects on people. Meditation is effective at certain things, like slowing the heart rate but it doesn't give anyone super powers. Now if you are on an acid trip you might think you have super powers. If you raise your adrenaline to dangerous levels you may be able to do some extraordinary things....once.
It still doesn't prove a god or anything like a god, or an energy that one can tap into. Like I said, hocus pocus bullshit.

EnergyGem's picture
The test in question shows

The test in question shows that meditation energy Truly exists and that it has a tangible effect in the material world. It also has controls to show that non-falun dafa practitioners did not emit such energy and had no effect on the rat cells.

Various other and similar tests ( although not completely the same) have been performed from various Universities including Stanford:


Although our current Western scientific paradigm has made many notable achievements to knowledge and human progress there are also other ways to uncover the secrets of life, the universe and the human body.

Ancient cultivation techniques unlocked the power of the mind ( which is to date the most complex instrument in existence) using various methodologies to peer deeper and further then current science can.

I recommend checking this out, it compares our current scientific paradigm to Buddha Law:


Nyarlathotep's picture
Let us know when it passes

Let us know when it passes peer review.

Nyarlathotep's picture
A gem I read in that book:

A gem I read in that book:
"The most common form of demonic interference occurs as follows...As soon as you begin the sitting meditation, however, it suddenly becomes noisy outside the room. There are sounds of car horns, walking in the hallway, chatting, doors slamming, and a radio from outside...It is a demon interfering with you, as it manipulates people to disturb you."[page 263-264]

Nyarlathotep's picture
"The fundamental cause of one

say goodbye to the germ theory of disease:
"The fundamental cause of one’s being ill and all of one’s misfortune is karma"[p 336]

"Somewhere in the body one may have a tumor, an infection, bone spurs, etc. It is because in another dimension there lies a being in that place. That being is in a very deep dimension. "[p 336]

Nyarlathotep's picture
Sadly, you can see how

Sadly, you can see how exciting my Friday night was: spent it skimming some new age bullshit manual.

CyberLN's picture
Well, Nyar, you may have had

Well, Nyar, you may have had a less than exciting Friday night but you've entertained all of us in this thread! Thx!

EnergyGem's picture
Peer review is useful but

Peer review is useful but something that has not been peer reviewed yet does not mean it is not scientific. Peer review started in 1665, are we to say all scientific discoveries before that time are not scientific?

Taking small snippets from the book and not reading it in context is a little disingenuous. In terms of Karma and it's manifestion in this dimension as illness, there is actually a Buddha Law Lecture excerpt that expounds on this point in a little more depth:

- - -

“What is that karma? The smaller the particles of the karma that exists in other dimensions—the smaller its grain—the more power it has. When it seeps into our dimension, it’s a microorganism, the most microscopic virus. So would you say that sickness is accidental? It can’t be understood by modern medicine or modern science, which can only understand the kind of phenomena that manifest in this surface dimension composed of the layer of the largest particles, which are formed by molecules. So it’s considered a sickness, a tumour, an infection somewhere, or something else; but today’s science can’t see the fundamental cause of people becoming sick, and it always explains with the limited reasons that can be understood by everyday people.

Of course, when someone gets sick, it usually conforms to the principles at the level of this world, and there’s usually an external factor in this world that induces the sickness to manifest. Then it appears to really conform to the principles of this world. In fact, it’s just an external factor that makes it in conformity with the principles of this world or the state of this world. But the fundamental cause and the sickness don’t originate in this dimension. So when you take medicine now you’re killing this sickness or the virus at the surface. Medicine can truly kill viruses at the surface.

But as soon as medicine kills the surface virus that has seeped over from other dimensions, the virus—karma—over on the other side will know, since everything is alive, and it will stop coming over. Then you feel that you’ve recovered because you took the medicine. But let me tell you that it nonetheless accumulates over there. Life after life human beings are accumulating this stuff..."

- - -

In certain schools of Cultivation they see the world as multidimensional to begin with (certain scientists are also coming to this conclusion) and that what we can sense with our 5 senses or our curreent scientific instruments is quite limited. Here is another short excerpt where Master Li Hongzhi ( the author of Zhuan Falun) expounds upon this matter:

- - -

Today man is merely able to view things in light of current knowledge, with the most noticeable result being that the many rules and axioms defined by the multitude of scientists practically stifle people. Darwin said that man evolved from the ape, and people everywhere believe man did evolve from the ape. Consequently, they have gone about deriving this and that from the theory. Right now, science has discovered certain things that reach far beyond the history of modern civilization, yet people dare not acknowledge such things and instead regard them as impossible, and keep advancing things haphazardly and speaking nonsense.

One day there will emerge a science of the human body. The physics, chemistry, and other scientific disciplines of the future might well be developed on a different basis, one not necessarily altogether that of the West. The axioms set forth by today’s empirical science are quite narrow, and acknowledge only that which is visible and tangible; anything indiscernible to the eye or touch is not acknowledged. Its scientific axioms are not scientific whatsoever, and have completely boxed man in. When a person discovers via scientific means things normally invisible and intangible, is that not science? Should it not be considered science?

A true understanding of matter bears little semblance to that of today’s scientists. When today’s scientists study things such as neutrinos and atoms, they believe it’s not safe, as the particles will give off radiation if not placed in a lead container. This is their perception, based on existing theories that are within their own investigative reach. That’s just the little bit that they can know, however. In reality, all objects are alive. Buddha Shakyamuni said the same.

Regardless of which dimension it is, the matter found there exists materially while at the same time being alive. Neutrinos, atoms, gamma rays, and matter at even more minute levels can all be controlled, but one has to reach the requisite level to do so. The gong that we develop through cultivation actually has powerful radiation that the cultivator is fully capable of controlling. Today’s science is exploring how the universe was formed, offering up every which theory and trying to pin down its composition.

A higher understanding is that the universe is comprised of time and space. And in fact, at the most fundamental level the universe is comprised of energy. The tinier the substance, the greater its radioactivity, and this is the essence of what happens at the most fundamental level. Today’s scientists wouldn’t go so far as to acknowledge this, for their knowledge is not at that point.

Matter on an extremely microcosmic plane—in a state that is ultra-miniscule—constitutes an original matter that is in fact not alive. It is a form of original matter that can’t be conceived of using a normal human being’s way of thinking. This original matter is terrifying, for any object that fell into it would be dissolved and disintegrated. The original matter, strictly speaking, cannot be called matter.

The universe has a special property, called Zhen Shan Ren. Why is it that the minute particles of objects all contain Zhen Shan Ren? As it turns out, Zhen Shan Ren is in fact able to assemble and hold together the most original matter—that most original entity that can’t quite be called matter—and thus assembles and holds together the most original thing, forming the tiniest type of primitive matter.

After forming that, various kinds of extremely tiny particles of matter are assembled based on that, and these tiny particles are in turn regrouped to form the soil, stone, metal, light, and time found in different dimensions—the basic materials of the universe. These further give rise to and produce larger forms of matter, resulting in myriad objects. So, when all things and objects are created from this special property of the universe, they naturally have in them the restraining quality of the Fa of the universe. Thus, all matter has Buddha nature—that is, Zhen Shan Ren, the element that constitutes the universe. And this is Buddha Fa, also known as the Dao.

- - -

from: http://en.falundafa.org/eng/html/zfl2/zfl2.htm#1

Nyarlathotep's picture
EnergyGem - Peer review is

EnergyGem - Taking small snippets from the book and not reading it in context is a little disingenuous

If you don't want the bullshit of a book to be exposed here, don't link the book. Also I took care to try to include the context. What I quoted from that book is what the book says; I didn't spin it. If you think I did; please address the quotes directly, and explain how I put it into the wrong context; instead of just waving your hands and crying it's out of context.

And I don't appreciate the accusation of being disingenuous. I'm probably the only person here stupid enough to read through it, and your going to call me disingenuous? I even supplied the page numbers of the quotes so anyone can easily check it for themselves.

EnergyGem - Peer review is useful but something that has not been peer reviewed yet does not mean it is not scientific.

The cry of crackpots around the world who can't get their bullshit peer reviewed. But you haven't mentioned a conspiracy theory yet! Want to throw that in too?
Anyway peer review isn't required, but not being able to pass peer review is an excellent litmus test for bullshit.

EnergyGem - Peer review started in 1665, are we to say all scientific discoveries before that time are not scientific?

That is pretty close to the date of the publishing of the Principia, so more or less: yeah.

EnergyGem - The tinier the substance, the greater its radioactivity

I guess we can throw chemistry out the window as well.

EnergyGem - for any object that fell into it would be dissolved and disintegrated

Uhh you just contradicted yourself in the same sentence. A substance can't both be dissolved and disintegrated. A dissolved substance still exists, a disintegrated one does not. So you are telling us the object will exist and not exist! That is a pretty nasty contradiction.

EnergyGem - The original matter, strictly speaking, cannot be called matter.

Again, you just contradicted yourself in the same sentence. You called it matter, then proceeded to tell us it can't be called matter.

EnergyGem - When today’s scientists study things such as neutrinos and atoms, they believe it’s not safe, as the particles will give off radiation if not placed in a lead container.

Neutrinos don't typically give off radiation. Bonus points: lead containers don't stop materials from giving off radiation.

EnergyGem - In reality, all objects are alive....Matter on an extremely microcosmic plane—in a state that is ultra-miniscule—constitutes an original matter that is in fact not alive.

Another contradiction, but at least it took more than 1 sentence this time. You tell us that all objects are alive, then tell us that "original matter" is not alive.

EnergyGem's picture
Apologies if my post sounded

Apologies if my post sounded accusatory. What I meant was that by cutting very small snippets out of a book without reading it sequentially may skew the way it sounds. The book is holistic in that it builds upon previous chapters when it's explaining things.

The book does however talk about things from a scientific perspective and there are many examples of this in the book. Here is one such example:


"Once we talk about certain issues, some people will call them superstitions. Why is that? Such a person’s criteria is that he will consider what science has not recognized, what he has not yet experienced, or what he thinks cannot possibly exist, all to be superstitious and “idealistic”—this is his mentality.

Is this mentality correct? Should what science has not recognized or what is beyond its development be labeled as superstitious and idealistic? Then, isn’t this person himself being superstitious and idealistic? With this mentality, how can science develop and make progress?

Human society won’t be able to move forward, either. Everything that our scientific and technological community has invented was unknown to people in the past. If such things were all regarded as superstitions, there would, of course, have been no need for development.

Qigong is not something idealistic. There are many people who do not understand qigong, and thus always consider qigong to be idealistic. At present, with scientific instruments we have found in a qigong master’s body infrasonic waves, supersonic waves, electromagnetic waves, infrared rays, ultraviolet rays, gamma rays, neutrons, atoms, trace metal elements, andother elements.

Aren’t these materially existing things? They are also material. Isn’t everything made of matter? Aren’t other time-spaces also made of matter? How can qigong be labeled “superstitious”? Since it is used for cultivation of Buddhahood, it is bound to involve many profound issues, and we will address them all."


In regards to science and Peer review many scientific discoveries and accomplishments have been made prior to Peer Review stretching far into the past to the time of Pythagoras and other great Minds of ancient Greece.

The other quotes you mentioned they are not written by me but by Mr Li Hongzhi ( the author of Zhuan Falun). It was an excerpt from a supplementary book which I linked to at the bottom of that excerpt. In terms of that section however it is scientifically sound but it is of a higher science then our current scientific paradigm. As we both know the human mind, consciousness and the brain is still largely a mystery to scientists and this is scientists themselves saying that:


The ancient cultivation techniques unlocked and harnessed the human brain ( the most enigmatic and complex instrument in the known universe) to delve into the mysteries of life and existence from a deeper and more comprehensive perspective then modern science.

I will share with you a lecture excerpt from Mr Li Hongzhi on where he discusses something most religions always mention and that is this notion of the 'Heavens'. He explains it from a vastly different angle then religions today:


“I’ll address one other subject for you, something students can’t explain clearly in cultivation, namely, the “heavens” (tian). According to contemporary science, spaceships have traveled to outer space and flown to many other planets, but they haven’t seen any human beings or paradises of gods, nor were there the scenes of different heavens within the Three Realms that people have talked about. So modern people use this logic to reject religion, deny legends from the past, and negate the most essential nature of human beings.

Actually, the “heavens” that gods refer to isn’t at all the same concept as the heavens human beings see. I often say that molecules compose everything in this material dimension of human beings, while microcosmic matter is the reason for the composition of molecules, and layers of even more-microcosmic matter are the fundamental reasons for the composition of layers of particles at different levels. Gods are in extremely microcosmic worlds, which are nonetheless extremely vast worlds, broad spaces.

The microcosmic worlds and the dimensions formed in the microcosm that I have told you about in each lecture are where gods reside. Think about it: Gods… I mentioned the other day that things in the human dimension, such as air, matter, soil, rocks, iron and steel—everything in this dimension, including your body—are composed of molecules. Yet molecules are the coarsest, most superficial, and filthiest matter in the universe.

These molecules—actually, in the eyes of gods, all molecules—are seen as dirt and considered mud in the universe, and this is the understanding merely at the level of Tathagata. That’s why what was said in the past about Yahweh and N ü Wa using mud to create man was true.

It is because even your flesh is made of molecules, and in the eyes of gods, it’s mud, it’s dirt, and something that is most coarse. Then think about it, everyone: No matter how far spaceships may travel, have they flown beyond the realm of molecules? Say an airplane flies in the sky and you travel from Asia to America. You feel like you have flown rather high and quite far; the fact is, you are merely moving inside mounds of molecules and you are all moving on the ground—this isn’t the heavens in the least.

In the eyes of gods, it is only a matter of different long or short distances within substances of the same level. The dimensions composed of microcosmic worlds are the real heavens that gods refer to. The more refined and microcosmic a substance is, the more quintessential and refined the surface it composes.

Energy exists in all matter, including molecules. It is only because the human body and everything around you is composed of molecules—even the machines you use to measure that energy are also composed of molecules—that you can’t detect the energy of molecules. The more microcosmic the matter is, the more energy it has and the stronger its radioactive power is—the more microcosmic, the more powerful.

That is why gods’ energy and forms of existence are like that. So let me word it a bit more clearly for you: People on Earth see that the Moon, the Sun, Venus, Mars, as well as the MilkyWay, outer space, the remote cosmic bodies, and so on, are all in the heavens. But if you look at Earth from Mars, wouldn’t you say that it too is in the heavens? It’s in the heavens as well. This is an understanding that breaks through ordinary people’s ways of thinking.

But, understood at a deeper level—think about it—what are the heavens? Once you enter a microcosmic dimension, that is the heavens. Let me give the simplest example and tell you a story. In the past, there was a cultivator of the Dao walking on the street while drinking. He suddenly saw someone. This person was just who he had been looking for—someone who could cultivate the Dao. So he wanted to save this person and take him as his disciple.

He asked this person, “Do you want to follow me to cultivate the Dao?” This person’s enlightenment quality and inborn quality were very good, and he said, “I do.” “Do you dare to follow me?” the cultivator asked. The person replied, “Yes, I do!” “Do you dare to follow me wherever I go?” he then asked. “Yes,” was the reply.

The cultivator then said, “Okay. Now follow me!” Saying that, he put his palm-sized wine gourd on the ground, opened the lid, and jumped into the gourd. The person saw that his master had jumped in, so he imitated his master and likewise jumped into the gourd. The bystanders all leaned over and looked inside the gourd. “Wow!” they exclaimed.

There was a vast world inside the gourd, really vast. Viewed with human thinking, how could it be possible for a person so big to jump into such a small wine gourd? That’s because when you want to enter that dimension, everything of your body has to conform to the state of that dimension before you can enter. When you travel through the gaps between different dimensions, your body inevitably enters those states of being.

This is because the more microcosmic particles of matter are, the more vast and broad the planes are at their levels. At the levels of microcosmic particles, the way the gourd manifests is different from the form that human beings see; all particles are connected. What appears to be large or small to human beings is only a form of manifestation in the space-time formed by the same particles. That is to say, the surface of the gourd is formed by molecules, and that’s the shape you see, but the gourd in the microcosm isn’t like this. It is connected to the universe at that realm.

This is something that man cannot understand and that can’t be understood by human conceptions. So, having mentioned a person going up to the heavens, I can say that if you suddenly enter a stone, isn’t that going up to the heavens? It won’t do if you enter the surface formed by the stone substance. You enter the realms of the microcosmic particles that form its molecular particles— aren’t you going to the heavens? Aren’t you in the heavens if you shrink into the microcosmic levels of your body? When you enter the microcosmic particles of the surface particles of dimensions at any level—in other words, enter the layer of particles smaller than that one—you are already in the heavens.

It’s just that the levels of heavens are different, and the microcosmic degree is different. After you enter the microcosm, although you see that you enter the stone, enter your body, or enter a certain thing, you have actually entered the broad universe connected to that dimension. In other words, this isn’t the human way of thinking. I often say that what people refer to as east, west, south, or north, up, down, in, or out, doesn’t exist in the universe, and it’s different from human thinking and concepts. After I explain it like this you will understand, “Oh, it’s not at all like it is when you use human thinking to contemplate it.”

The present-day science is very shallow. It can’t detect or know the real heavens because it crawls within only the current material dimension, and this has limited it. And the science imposed upon man by aliens is thus confined to this. Aliens are living beings in this dimension as well, and they are similarly incapable of knowing the truth of the universe. Man does not believe in gods, and this is no simple problem.

It is man destroying human morality. When man believes in karmic retribution, believes that doing good deeds is rewarded and doing bad deeds meets with retribution, and that whatever man does is watched by gods, man then won’t dare to do evil things. Man knows that doing good deeds will accumulate virtue (de) and be rewarded with happiness, which is absolutely true. But man no longer believes these things; science nowadays doesn’t believe in them, and it considers them superstition. This is exactly swinging the club of science to strike at people’s righteous thinking. Isn’t this striking at the most essential nature of human beings?

When people’s morality, upright beliefs, and righteous thinking are destroyed to the point of nonexistence, people will recklessly do whatever they want to and will resort to any means to achieve their goals. This is one of the fundamental reasons for the deterioration of human society. People in Western society appear to believe in God, but they don’t really believe in God: What they truly believe in is science. Gods are not like what they have imagined, that is, beings with human emotions. Just now I corrected a key concept for you, namely, how “heavens” are to be understood. What gods and human beings mean when they each speak of “heavens” are two different things.

During the course of cultivation, many people sometimes see that they seem to have entered their own bodies. Their bodies are like a vast sky, they move in the sky and walk among the cosmic bodies, and doors are opened one after another as they dash forward. When they take a closer look or expand their minds one step further to take a look, they realize, “Oh, it’s the energy channels in my body being opened.” Let’s think about it. When you are cultivating, your bodies are being changed from the utmost microcosm on up.

So what is the utmost microcosm? Aren’t your other bodies precisely in the heavens and in those realms? It is only that you the person have fallen into the midst of ordinary people, and along with that, you have fallen to where ordinary people are; even the part that’s the most microcosmic has dropped to the level of ordinary people.

However, if you can return through cultivation, everything will be rectified for you, so you will go through that experience. Many cultivators in history have seen those phenomena [that I just described], but they weren’t able to describe it. Sometimes those in the Buddhist religion say that Buddha is in one’s mind, while people in the Dao school say that the human body is a small universe, and so on, and this has to do with their having seen such things.”

- - -

Nyarlathotep's picture
Another gem:

Another gem:

"From Buddhist scriptures we can also find some related statements. Shakyamuni once said that he succeeded in cultivation many hundred millions of jie ago. How many years are there in one jie? One jie is a number for hundreds of millions of years."[p25]

So forget the earlier claim of humans being around for 2 billion years. That is more than 10,000,000,000,000,000 years!

EnergyGem's picture
Certain schools of

Certain schools of Cultivation believe mankind's civilizations to be cyclic and that they stretch much further into the past then what is currently understood by alot of religions and the scientific establishment.

Actually, Micheal Cremo has proven this to be so with archaeological evidence:


Nyarlathotep's picture

- Micheal Cremo has proven this to be so with archaeological evidence

Micheal Cremo is an "ancient aliens" conspira-tard.

EnergyGem's picture
If you take a look at that

If you take a look at that lecture you will see that he uses archaeological evidence to state his arguments.

Nyarlathotep's picture
EnergyGem - it is

EnergyGem - it is scientifically sound but it is of a higher science then our current scientific paradigm.

If it is more advanced than current science; how could you know it is "scientifically sound"?

EnergyGem - cutting very small snippets out of a book without reading it sequentially may skew the way it sounds

AGAIN, if I mischaracterized anything from that book, please address the specific mischaracterization.
Anyway, are you going to address any of the contradictions from the material you posted, or just keep on trucking with posting more and more new age religious non-sense?

EnergyGem's picture
It is a more advanced science

It is a more advanced science however it is not the science that has developed using the method of the Western scientific methods. An analogy is that the ancients fine tuned and found techniques to unlock certain capabilities of the mind ( which is far more intricate and complex then any scientific tool known) to use it as a 'scientific' instrument to understand life, the human body and the universe from a different angle then our current Western science employs.

In terms of the excerpts you quoted you did quote them exactly as they are in the book. However the book explains things in a systematic way and builds upon each chapter to give you the 'bigger' picture as it were. If one was just to read those snippets and not the previous chapters it would not give him the full broad idea of what is being conveyed. For example in Talk 2 it goes into some depth about other dimensions. From there we can say that this is actually a multidimensional science ( scientists themselves are also theorizing that it's a strong possibility other dimensions Truly exist).

In terms of the bullet points you highlighted:

- We can both agree that lead can shield against certain types of radiation.

- Perhaps it dissolves first before becoming disintegrated, I think that's what the sentence was conveying.

- The word 'matter' had to be used to convey this 'non-matter' substance. It said: 'strictly speaking' this matter cannot be called matter.

- Many things give of radiation, even neutrinos but you would need a whole lot of them for them to affect you in this dimension:


- I think what that sentence was conveying was that almost all matter is alive but this 'original matter' that constitutes the foundation of things is not.
There was no contradiction.

Something I want to mention is that Falun Dafa and many schools of Cultivation believe other dimensions to tangibly exist and this has to be taken into consideration when talking about these matters.

This excerpt from Zhuan Falun (Talk 2) explains this matter from a scientific perspective:

- - -
and excerpt From Talk 2 from the section (About The 3rd Eye):

"So Daoists consider the human body a small universe, and that makes a lot of sense. They’re not saying that its compositional structure is like the universe’s, they’re not talking about the form our body takes in this material dimension. We want to ask this: what’s the material body’s state below the level of cells as today’s science understands it? There are all kinds of molecular particles, and below molecules there are atoms, protons, nuclei, electrons, quarks, and the smallest microscopic particle that’s been researched so far is the neutrino.

So what’s the absolute smallest microscopic particle? It’s just too hard to research. In his later years Shakyamuni said, "It is so large that it has no exterior, and so small that it has no interior." And what’s that mean? It means that at the Tathagata level, in terms of largeness, you can’t see the edge of the universe, and in terms of smallness, you can’t see the smallest microscopic particle of matter. That’s why he said, "It is so large that it has no exterior, and so small that it has no interior."

Shakyamuni also put forth the theory of 3,000 boundless universes. He said that in the Milky Way galaxy of our universe there are 3,000 planets that have beings with carnal bodies on them, just like the human race. He also said that a grain of sand has 3,000 boundless universes like this one in it, so a grain of sand is like a universe, with intelligent human beings like us in it, and there are planets like this one, and mountains and rivers.

Sounds hard to believe, right?! If it’s true, then let’s think, isn’t there sand in those universes? And in each of those grains of sand, aren’t there 3,000 boundless universes there, too? Then isn’t there sand in those 3,000 boundless universes? And in each of those grains of sand, aren’t there again 3,000 boundless universes? So at the Tathagata level you can’t see the end of it all.

The same goes for human molecular cells. People wonder how large the universe is. I can tell you that this universe does have boundaries, but even at the Tathagata level it still seems like it’s boundless and infinite. But the inside of the human body, going from its molecules down to its microscopic particles in the microcosm, it’s as large as this universe. I know it sounds hard to believe. In the extreme microcosm of what makes up a human being, or any being, his nature and the unique elements of his being have been formed.

So our modern science’s research on this is still miles away. The level of our human race’s science and technology is pretty low when you compare it to that of the beings of higher wisdom on other planets in the greater universe. We don’t even have the ability to break through dimensions that exist at the same time and in the same place, while the flying saucers from other planets can just go and travel in other dimensions, even the concept of space-time changes, so they come and go in the blink of an eye, and it’s so fast nobody can explain it.

That was something we had to discuss in talking about the Third Eye, because when you’re running outward in your passageway you’ll feel like it’s boundless and endless. Some people might see another situation, where they’ll feel like they aren’t running along a tunnel, but like they’re running along a broad and endless road, and on both sides of the road there are mountains, there’s water, and cities, and they keep running outward. Sounds even harder to believe, right? I remember something one qigong master used to say: he’d say that even in one single pore of yours there’s a city, and there are trains and cars running in it. People who heard that were really surprised, and they thought it was a little far-fetched.

Now, we know that material things are composed of molecules, atoms, and protons at their microscopic level, and you can trace it all the way down. If at each level you’re able to see the plane of that level instead of a single point—if you can see the plane of molecules’ level, the plane of atoms’ level, the plane of protons’ level, the plane of nuclei’s level—you’ll see the forms in which different dimensions exist. All material things, and this includes the human body, they all exist simultaneously with, and are connected to, the dimensional levels of the universe’s dimensions.

In modern physics when they study the microscopic particles of matter, they only study one microscopic particle at a time, and do that through sectional analysis and fission, and they just study its post-fission composition after the nucleus undergoes fission. Now if we had an instrument that could unfold its whole plane and let you see a complete display of all the atomic elements or molecular elements at that level, if you could view that, you would have broken through this dimension and seen the reality of another dimension. Human bodies correspond to external dimensions, and they all have forms of being like that."

- - -

LogicFTW's picture
Interesting and amusing

Interesting and amusing thread. I appreciate the work both EnergyGem and Nylarlathotep have put into it so far.

Nyarlathotep's picture
EnergyGem - I remember

EnergyGem - I remember something one qigong master used to say: he’d say that even in one single pore of yours there’s a city, and there are trains and cars running in it

I don't think I could do a better job than you just did of pointing out how silly this non-sense is.

EnergyGem's picture
From the first page of Zhuan

From the first page of Zhuan Falun we find this passage:

- - -

"Out of the depths of the cosmic body, the tiniest of particles first appear, with layers upon layers of countless particles following, ranging in size from small to great, reaching all the way to the outer planes that humankind knows—those of atoms, molecules, planets, and galaxies—and beyond, to what is still larger. Particles of varying sizes make up lives of varying sizes as well as the worlds of varying sizes that permeate the cosmic body.

Lives at any of the various planes of particles perceive the particles of the next larger plane to be planets in their skies, and this is true at each and every plane. To the lives at each plane of the universe, it seems to go on infinitely. It was Dafa that created time and space, the multitude of lives and species, and all of creation; all that exists owes to it, with nothing outside of it. All of these are the tangible expressions, at different planes, of Dafa’s qualities: Zhen, Shan, and Ren (Truthfulness, Compassion and Forebearance)."

- - -

So in a sense if you could magnify an electron to the size of our planet earth you would find life on it. Of course science says that the electron is in a 'electron cloud' and it's true position is hard to pinpoint. That is how it is in our current dimension but if you could break through into that deeper dimension you would find that even the concept of space/time changes and that the electron indeed has the same kind of rotating mechanism that occurs in our solar system.

So that sentence about 'trains and cars' in a person's pores is talking about what is deep inside a person on an extremely microcosmic level.

I understand some of these concepts are rather far out but in cultivation circles they understand that in the deep microcosm is where other dimensions reside and it goes far deeper then even nuetrinos. Here is a Buddha Law Lecture excerpt where Mr Li Hongzhi elaborates on this point:

- - -

“This universe is quite complex, and it’s so complex that, besides humans, even Buddhas, Gods, and Daos are amazed by it. And humans’ understanding of the universe is limited to only one layer of its existence. As I said before, of the surface of matter that humans are able to understand, the largest particles are planets and Milky Ways, and the smallest particles include—that is, those that can be known through the use of instruments—molecules, atoms, nuclei, neutrons, electrons, quarks, and neutrinos.

What’s smaller down the line is unknown. But [what is known] is so very far away from human beings’ original matter and from the original matter that forms living beings. Even [what is known] is reduced in size by countless hundreds of millions of times, by countless and countless hundreds of millions of times, but it’s still not the ultimate end.

So, that’s how microscopic matter can be. And yet, the more microscopic the matter is, the larger its volume is as a whole. You can’t view one single particle alone. That one particle is only one point of its whole volume, but it is one whole entity. So, the more microscopic the particle of matter is, probably the larger the surface of the whole entity is.

When the particles that form the matter are large, the plane formed may not be proportionately large. Humanity only understands the dimension made up of molecules, and yet they are content with what they have achieved and are constrained by various definitions in empirical science, and are unable to break through them.

For instance, the air, water, steel, iron, wood, as well as the human body—everything within the space you live in—are made up of molecules. You are as if living in a sea in the realm of molecules or in a three-dimensional picture made up of molecules. A spaceship, no matter how high it can fly, is unable to go beyond the dimension made up of molecules; a computer, no matter how advanced it is, is no match for the human brain.

Of course, it’s not that human society has made no breakthroughs at all; it has come to understand molecules, atoms, quarks, and even neutrinos. But what science is able to see is only a point, not entire planes, where particles of various sizes exist. If they were to see such planes, humans would have seen really existing scenes of other dimensions in the universe.

And that atom is more than an individual particle that humans see. Even with an individual particle, if it can be enlarged and then seen, if it can be enlarged to the size of a small planet, beings, matter, water, plants, and all forms of material existence on that object made up of atoms can be seen. But humanity cannot make that breakthrough.

Actually, humans live between two particles: the molecules that form everything and planets, the largest particles we can see with our eyes. So [humans] live between molecular particles and planets. Of course, if I don’t talk about it today, scientists won’t realize it.

Humanity hasn’t been able to come up with the idea that planets too are particles. And these countless planets form even larger particles, which are various Milky Ways, and in turn, galaxies form an even larger scope of the universe, but that is still not the largest particle. Of course, the concept I’m talking about may have suddenly pushed your thinking to a very high realm.

If your body is as large as the body made up of the particles at the level of planets, when you look over at the Earth, does it look like a molecule? Viewed from humans’ perspective on matter, planets are indeed a layer of particles. This is talking about it from a macroscopic perspective.

People often talk about going up to heaven, but where is heaven? Where is “up”? In this universe there is no such concept as “up,” “down,” “left,” “right,” “front,” or “back.” Going up can be “up,” but is it also “up” when you go down? This universe is round, and the Earth lies almost at the center. Its left-hand side is up, its right-hand side is also up; what’s down is up and the top is also up. Then this leads up to a heavenly secret. As I said just now, the smaller the particle, the larger the plane.

In fact, when a being is able to enter into a more microscopic level, it is already in a larger, higher place: it is in heaven, because the more microscopic the particle, the higher the level. This is a very vast perspective. The perspective on the universe I just explained is only one way—one perspective on dimensions. There are more complex ones.”

- - -

mykcob4's picture
You just had to add that?

You just had to add that? Well, I say it is all bullshit. Until this wacko theory is fully tested and peer reviewed, I'll call it bollocks!

EnergyGem's picture
More scientific experiments

More scientific experiments need to be performed in this direction. Here are some more findings:

--- An Ancient Cultivation Practice Falun Gong Improves Neutrophil Functions and Causes System-Level Gene Regulation ---

excerpt from the article:

"...These features of Falun Gong suggest that modern biological or biophysical technologies can be applied here to reach a deeper level of confirmation or understanding of the molecular manifestation of spiritual practice on our human body. Since the immune system has been previously shown to be highly sensitive to environmental and psychological changes, we carried out studies to examine the effect of Falun Gong practice on the polymorphonuclear leukocytes (PMNs), which are relatively short-lived but are produced in large quantity during the immune responses and play critical roles in innate immunity. Studies at the cellular level reveal increased bactericidal activities of PMNs from Falun Gong practitioners.

Furthermore, Falun Gong practitioners' PMNs exhibit increased life span in the absence of stimulation from agents such as bacterial lipopolysaccharide (LPS), but increased apoptosis upon LPS stimulation. Such changes in apoptotic responses of PMNs suggest an alteration of PMN functions in favor of a rapid resolution of inflammation.

We also applied micro-array technology to examine changes in levels of gene expression in PMNs. Drastic system-level changes in gene expression were detected in PMNs of Falun Gong practitioners, while little changes were detected among non-practitioners, despite the differences in age and gender.

Most interestingly, the genes that are regulated in a consensus fashion among the practitioners can be grouped into several functional clusters, which are directly linked to PMN functions in anti-viral immunity, apoptotic property and possibly longevity based upon a much more economical balance of protein synthesis and degradation."

Full article here:


Nyarlathotep's picture
Still no peer review. Also

Still no peer review. Also found this gem:

Wikipedia : Falun Gong - Although gays and lesbians may practice Falun Gong, homosexual conduct is said to generate karma, and is therefore viewed as incompatible with the goals of the practice...Falun Gong's cosmology includes the belief that different ethnicities each have a correspondence to their own heavens, and that individuals of mixed race lose some aspect of this connection.

xenoview's picture

Has these claims of Falun Gong passed peer review? If it's passed peer review, please give links to the peer reviewed paper.

Nyarlathotep's picture
There was one published in a

There was one published in a "peer reviewed" journal. Of course it was a homeopathy/acupuncture journal; which is listed as a "fundamentally flawed" journal by Quackwatch.


LogicFTW's picture



Resistance to marijuana legalization is bigpharmaconspiracy!!!

MCDennis's picture
This sounds like a pile of

This sounds like a pile of Woo Woo to me

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