Some fucker found old posts of mine on Reddit and decided to message me about Lourdes. And not in a good way. They decided to info dumb on me, and my stupid terrified ass read it. A story from the early 1900s, of a woman diagnosed with optical atrophy , went blind, got cured at Lourdes. The doctors afterwards looking at her said her nerves were still atrophied , that they were essentially dead, and yet she could see. And another of a woman with a uterine tumor so distended she looked pregnant and after Lourdes, it went down immediately , her stomach flat and pliant again.
I'm so fucking pissed at this person. I just wanted to read funny pages, why would someone send me this? And why did I read it??
I'm freaking out. Part of me feels numb, part of me says it's bullshit and the Bible is bullshit and Jesus is bullshit but right now it's such a small voice
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What do you think is more likely: people getting magic cures from water, or perhaps some guy made a misdiagnosis 100 years ago?
Of course the latter, I know that. And I know how easy it would be for Lourdes doctors to lie after. "Oh of course we know her diagnosis was correct, we can still see her damage after the cure! She can see with dead nerves, a miracle!" And then there months later when she went to another doctor he found no damage
Mikhael - deep breath brah (lol). My boys constantly use that fuckin “brah”, but they like it.
I use to defend, scripturally, the “sin” of blood transfusions. I knew it so strongly, so deeply, that I almost died during surgery because of my refusal to accept blood. Thank you skillful surgeon for pulling my dumb ass through.
Now I know better. Now you know better. Some fucker, I’m sure could email me all the scriptural reasons I use to use to defend my lame ass position - fuck it. It’s brought back a swath of emotional reasons, not logic ... you know this with OCD ... Is it OCD you struggle with? If not, it doesn’t matter - you don’t need to answer that - but my point is
... that’s “who you were”
....we do our best to learn/believe in as many true things as possible. You’ve taken steps forward. So, this is a half-step back (?!?! maybe, maybe not?!?!)
I’m going to post a link
I have PTSD, with some obsessive components .
Do you know what the stupid shit is? As soon as I'm obsessed with something new, the thing I was obsessed about just hours or days ago doesn't matter anymore. Of course it's fake, I can say. Of course it's bullshit ! But this? This thing I'm on right now? Is absolutely real, this is the last thing, this is the end.
Idk, I'm actually already feeling a little bit better ? I just panicked. Lourdes is bullshit. Almost every modern "miracle" has been challenged by outside medical sources, and it would be a true miracle if NONE of the early miracles were fudged even a little. Why don't we have tumors instantly shrinking anymore ? Why don't we have wounds instantly closing these days? Why is it that as early as the 60s, tumor cures were suddenly slow to shrink and dissapear, just like all tumors do that recover? Why is it only before ww2 are these miracles so amazing ?
Mikhael...I'm actually already feeling a little bit better ? I just panicked....
Fuckin emotions!!! Lol. Shit - I’m 20 years out and some shit still hits. I remember having a smoke and an Elder from my congregation seeing me. I felt a wave of shame. Then I thought “Fuck you! I’m a grown ass woman that can have a fuckin smoke!”
We’ve been programmed. The further along you get - the easier it gets. Trauma sucks.
One last “trigger” story. Bad storm going on outside. When I was little every storm was possibly Armageddon and Jehovah’s wrath. I lived in fear of storms. Anyway, bad storm and my boys laugh and asked me (innocently). “What if this is the JW Armageddon?”
I said, “If it is, sorry boys!” They laughed. It wasn’t. It isn’t.
Just know that you are cared for and you’ll get through this.
I can get that, I was terrified of the end of the world since I was like 11 or 12, and my church never even cared about the apocalypse. But there was a sign outside the target that said "Jesus is coming soon, are you ready?" And it messed me up
Honestly probably the start of these issues
@Whitefire13
"When I was little every storm was possibly Armageddon and Jehovah’s wrath. I lived in fear of storms. Anyway, bad storm and my boys laugh and asked me (innocently). “What if this is the JW Armageddon?” "
Are you familiar with the show "The Big Bang" . The character Sheldon Cooper is from Texas . His mum is a chronic Born againie, with the kind of beliefs you mentioned. I think they were trying to exaggerate her for comedic effect . I laughed well enough, but soon realised it's almost impossible to parody those people ****
If you haven't seen, the clip below is worth a glance. As I said, incapable of parody.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s98fD6ILORo
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((0)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
***I've thought so ever since I heard about the creationist museum, with the diorama with a child riding a dinosaur.
@ Mikhael
"Why is it only before ww2 are these miracles so amazing ?"
Everything has a rational explanation. Cameras did not become widespread until after WW2.
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Like my wife told me today when I talked to her about it, harder to make miracles in a media connected age. Lourdes tumours in 1900? Gone instantly ! Lourdes tumours in 1965? Start healing 4 months later. Hmmm.
With today's cell phones, cameras are everywhere. And they have filmed just about everything possible. Airplane crashes, horrific car crashes, people doing stupid stuff. But despite all those cameras, no one has a picture of god or a miracle. One could make the reasonable assumption that if miracles were real, it would be recorded by now.
Absence of evidence indicates evidence of absence.
Turn your cell phone and computer off. Take a long walk outside.
I can’t find it ... maybe a good thing. Anyhoo it was a “mindcandy entertainment” video on early records of UFO sightings (not ancient aliens).
One of the prominent stories was of a mid 1850s hot air balloonist, up around 24,000 ft, and encountering a “mirror image” of himself in his balloon. He’d reach out toward the image and it would reach back toward him- he’d go back, it’d go back ... you get the idea.
So this video/show is going into great detail of how he encountered a shiny UFO, etc...
And all I’m thinking is - fuck, that’s high up!!! I wonder how high you need to be before oxygen deprivation sets in. After all, this is 1850.
Yup about 6000m or 22000 feet. Read about psychosis.
Just because someone may experience something doesn’t mean the explanation for that experience is supernatural.
@Whitefire Re: Hot air balloon at 24k feet
Having done a considerable amount of skydiving and flying for many years back in my younger days, I can tell you that lack of oxygen and pressure CAN have some detrimental physiological effects on the human body at various altitudes. For civilian skydiving, for instance, the plane is not allowed to take jumpers above 15,000 feet without being equipped with oxygen. For any jumps being made between 15,000 and 20,000 feet, jumpers are required to breath from an oxygen system during the ride to altitude in order to saturate their bloodstream with oxygen prior to jumping. (Various methods are used, but several nasal cannulas connected to a main line going down each side of the passenger area are typical.) If jumps are to be made between 20,000 and 40,000 feet, the jumpers must breathe oxygen on the ride to altitude AND each jumper must be equipped with his/her own emergency bail-out oxygen source. Add to that, if the jump is to be over 25,000 feet, the jumpers are required to breath 100% oxygen for a minimum of thirty minutes prior to even getting on the plane for takeoff. Oh, and for each level of altitude above 15,000 feet, the jumper is required to have a higher level jump license. Hell, as much as I jumped, I made it up to 18k only a couple of times. Very few drop zones have planes equipped for altitudes above 15k.
So, basically, yeah, if some dude in the 1800's took a hot air balloon up to 24,00 feet without any supplemental oxygen source, I have ZERO doubt in my mind that bozo was loopy as mo-fo by the time he got up to that altitude. Hell, he could have even said he saw rabid monkeys jumping around inside his balloon, and it would not surprise me a bit... *chuckle*...
I want to tandem jump on my 70 bday. Jumping is on my bucket list....but alas, I have to wait till the boys are all grown (mind you they’re Millennials so it may never happen)
...loopy as shit...yah, I figured lack of oxygen might play apart - but not once did the video offer this as an alternate, albeit, more reasonable explanation. It’s shiny - it’s in the sky- an eyewitness - has to be UFO. Not to say I have an explanation for all accounts - some are downright “hmmmm ...”
And I have done mountain climbing. I never climbed anywhere close to 24,000 feet.
I have done 20,000 feet. And I live at altitude (colorado) and I still gave myself a week to acclimate. (It was actually an easy hike, I could of been out of shape and done it, it was all about acclimating. Despite all that, final accent I felt like I was breathing through a small straw. I could not even do basic math in my head well, stuff that was easy at 10,000 feet or less. I remember taking off my gloves to take pictures at the top. I struggled for a few minutes trying to put my gloves back on. Turns out I put them on the wrong hands, another member of the summit group had to point it out to me after watching me struggle for a while.
To go from sea level to 24,000 feet in a few hours, it is highly likely the guy passed out. He is lucky to have survived the trip. My guess, hot air balloon tech that guy had access to, it started to go back down after he passed out. Perhaps the guy smartly setup a fail safe system that returned the balloon to the ground.
Also the altimeter was not invented until 1928. They had other methods of measuring (less accurately) altitude that could work on a hot air balloon, but in general this was a highly dangerous and even somewhat implausible event.
@Logic
They mentioned in the story how he measured his height, but I figured, even if he was off by 5000ft - ssshhhhhhiiiiittttttt - everything you said!
Climbing is so cool.
I can relate a little bit better then normal to you Mikhael.
1-2 weeks ago, I obsessed hard over covid-19 (commonly referred to as: "the coronavirus.") And I had all major news outlets fuel that. It was not just in the dark recesses of the internet, but all over every major news network.
I actually had my first "freak out" in a long time. Even my wife got concerned. But I shook it off pretty quick. I separated out what I can, and cannot do about it.
I can, (and did,) take reasonable steps to prepare, this helped calm me, and give me a measure of control, and for the rest, I realized I have no control over, and that it was pointless to obsess over it. I can not stop a global market meltdown, I can't stop people freaking out, and I can't do much to inform the general public the steps they should do, and should take seriously.
In short, I did what I could over the stuff I have control over, (like planning for myself and family.) And I forced myself to stop stressing over the stuff I do not have control over. I actually have gotten more "done" in the last 2 weeks, then I have in months. I went into a flurry of reasonable activity that ultimately calmed me down.
I was totally on that same wavelength with the ebola scare, thanks to a movie about pandemics they showed us in freshman bio. Fucking terrified. I'm sorry you had that kind of freakout , friend. I can totally understand it, and in glad you're able to see it more soundly
I've got my shit more under control. Cutting back even further on where I go internetwise. It's bullshit and propoganda
Knowledge and education are powerful tools to dispel fear and the hysteria that can also affect people.
For example, when this Corona virus popped up, I did some research on the internet. Then I knew the odds, the symptoms, and precautions I can take.
On my free time I use while roaming the internet, a lot of stuff I check out is hard science. I closely follow SpaceX (they are launching (and hopefully landing) one of their rockets Friday, and later today there will be a launch from Guyana by Arianespace. And ITER, wow, that really has my attention.
The thing is Mikhael, there is an almost infinite amount of cool stuff you can check out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0FZIwabctw
Any mention of Lourdes brings to my mind a joke ,I think from "Mrs Browns Boys".....
"Unable to walk ,we took him to Lourdes ,pushed him through the healing pool..."
"And was he able then to walk..?"
"No ,of course not...….
but when he came out of the pool …..
the wheel chair had two new tyres."
Fun fact; they shut down the "healing" pools at Lourdes. Why you ask? Because they are afraid people will get sick there (from the virus that is all over the news).
Seriously; I couldn't stop laughing for a couple minutes when I read that.
/e: Oh and there are reports of Catholic churches removing the holy water people dip their fingers in at the door. Apparently the blessing of god won't kill the virus!
/e: There are also reports of Catholic churches suspending the part of the service where the church goers drink the "blood of Christ" (wine) out of the same cup. Apparently the blood of Christ is powerless over the virus as well!
Ngl, had myself a good long laugh at that myself , I've seen all those posts and news.
Funny, why isn't Mary willing to protect her faithful at Lourdes now? She gonna just wait another 10 years before healing someones gout?
@Nyarlathotep
"Apparently the blood of Christ is powerless over the virus as well!"
Fair suck of the sauce bottle mate
. I can't remember ever hearing, or seeing in print a catholic
claim that the eucharist or consecrated wine have any kind of miraculous power what so ever.
Piling on more false claims on the church is gilding the lily I think.
I thought that cup of wine was supposed to magically transform into the blood of Jesus. Maybe I got my rituals mixed up.
...Nyar... I thought so too. But, blood can carry viruses...
Are you suggesting that Jesus is infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus? Just kidding.
----------------------------------
I'm no expert on Catholic chemistry. Here is what they tell us:
wine -> blood_of_Jesus
So I assumed:
wine + SARS-CoV-2 -> blood_of_Jesus
But maybe it is:
wine + SARS-CoV-2 -> blood_of_Jesus + SARS-CoV-2
---------------------------------------------
Of course I'm kidding again.
/e:
Sometimes I fall into the arguably bad habit of assuming the theists don't really believe what they are telling us. It doesn't help when I see them abandon their supernatural rituals as soon as things get a little risky.
"It doesn't help when I see them abandon their supernatural rituals as soon as things get a little risky."
That is why many theists make the effort to learn first aid and the Heimlich maneuver.
Eucharistic miracles are their whole own subgenre , a lot more fanciful and lackluster than saint or healing miracles imo
Mikhael
Dude
I have been disbelieving in God on and off for the past month or so, I went to church the other day, all of a
Sudden, God exists again!!
I I think it’s repression of emotion and old beliefs coming up again it may be a Subconscious thing.. which btw you can explore your core beliefs and change them.
Anyway.. I
Hate it man I can understand what you feel.
I think it’s the authority and
The energy of a person who believes that sorta connects with the repression’s and past beliefs as well as empathy.. I am slowly finding myself unwind from
This..
you’re not alone
This place sorta makes me feel like a safe haven where past believers Can come
And
The atheists have the right medicine and compassion to help us through, I really like
It
Here ☺️
@ Italianish
" I went to church the other day, all of a Sudden, God exists again!!"
Revisiting a familiar place like a church will evoke memories. Think of the thousands of hours you spent there, most of it in peace and joy. Peace and joy are positive emotions, we welcome them.
Do you think your god existed, or did the visit to church, with all it's familiar sights, sounds, and smells, did not evoke very nice and wonderful emotions? And did that feeling of calm and happiness fool you into what you felt as god?
We are human, we are social animals. We like to integrate ourselves into the crowd. If you go to a stadium for a football match, you get pumped up by the noisy and enthusiastic fans, and maybe let out a little "whoop whoop" because enthusiasm is contagious.
Even myself, one who turned his back on organized religion and will probably never change my position as an atheist, will feel a sense of peace and calm if I go into a church.
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