8th day circumcision
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It is relevant to the topic. It is about oral suction preformed by the rabbi. Did you read the article? How did those boys get herpes?
The point of this thread was to support the Torah by providing a scientific fact which would have been impossible for primitives to know about with supernatural origins... The point of the thread isn't to discuss the health benefits/issues of circumcision...
Ah! So THAT'S your objective. Well, other commentors give primitives credit for greater powers of observation and experience than you do, PJB. They dispute your claim that it "would have been impossible for primitives to know.", not unreasonably since primitives apparently knew how to trepan successfully:
And the ancient Chinese knew about fecal transplant:
Have you got anything else to support your supernatural claim?
N.Y. Baby Contracts Herpes From Controversial Circumcision Rite
This is the fourth case of herpes this year and the 17th since 2000 resulting from the practice known as metzitzah b’peh, according to city health officials.
Since the dawn of civilization, nobody has been able to prove the existence of any god, which is why religions are called “faiths” and not “knowledge.” In the absence of any god, there is no heaven, no hell and religious books are equivalent to other collections of mythology.
Circumcision is infant genital mutilation whatever the flawed reasoning behind it.
The extent of "proof" is arguable. The proofs I have for God (and Judaism in particular) are firm enough to activate Pascal's Wager in favor of Judaism...
PJB: "activate Pascal's Wager in favor of Judaism..."
Now you're arguing in favor of Pascal's Wager? My morality tells me that it would be wrong to pretend to believe something just to derive certain benefits. In any case, wouldn't your omniscient god see right through the deceipt?
Your morality is sounding increasingly relative and ritualistic to me.
Pascal's Wager simply says that if Judaism isn't 100% proven, yet is the probable (e.g. 75%) - you'd be safer keeping its laws rather than not. So do you believe in it? Yes bc it's the probable. Would you keep its laws? Also yes, bc of Pascal's Wager.
@PJB: "you'd be safer keeping its laws rather than not"
That still sounds like a hypocritical attempt to deceive someone you say is omniscient. I think honesty's the best policy, don't you? Anyway, based on history, observations, people's behavior, science, and logic, I'd place the probability a little lower, say in the vicinity of 0.0%.
I predict that neither of us will be surprised by what happens to us after we die.
You're misunderstanding Pascal's Wager. It isn't saying to BELIEVE in it bc you're better off that way. It is rather saying that once you already believe in it (not 100% but 75%, thus the probable), you should act upon it. For example, if you were to hear a report, which has a 75% accuracy level, that your friend is dangerously sick in the hospital, you would run to the hospital. The reason is simple. It's better to be safe than sorry. You see, that doesn't make him BELIEVE the report any more than 75% but that he ACTS upon it
Pascal's wager is useless; because it does not consider the cost of the wager, only the payoff.
My friend, the World to Come is far greater and superior than the pleasure and pain of this world. Hence, the cost of the effort has practically zero relevance to Pascal's Wager
You have proof that gods exist. Perfect. Bring it on. We literally cannot wait.
PJb, do you think that a circumcision is required to be considered Jewish?
If one's mother is Jewish, then by default he or she is Jewish. Circumcision is an addition to the Jewishness, it creates a bond between God and the infant. So although circumcision doesn't make someone Jewish, it is the most Jewish thing a Jew can do...
"So although "male genital mutilation" doesn't make someone Jewish, it is the most Jewish thing a Jew can do..."
In that case, I'll stick with atheism.
You'll have to explain what you just said, I'm having difficulty comprehending
One need not believe in a god to be Jewish either.
That's correct. Although it is quiet unfortunate to conduct your life without a God
Perhaps for you that is the case. You haven't the insight, however, to claim that is the case for anyone else.
Please read the entire thread of "proof for the Torah" to see how it applies to you as well, as it is absolute truth based of LOGIC, NOT RELATIVE EMOTIONS.
I have read it.
I iterate: You haven't the insight, however, to claim that is the case for anyone else.
"...conduct your life without a god." From my perspective, theists conduct their lives believing in fairy tales.
You sick bastard- this is genital mutilation.
You gotta explain what you just said
You people are child molesters that's what I said
And you are a hater and illogical fellow, you don't belong in this intelligent discussion. There are many hate-sites and anti-Semitic (and self hating Jews) sites that you will find more of your kind in, you are welcome to join one of those.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali's parents were Muslim, and had her genitals mutilated- nowsheis an atheist who advocates against FGM and the savagery of Islam. I guess according to you she is a hateful bigot.
I don't tolerate savagery son, if it offends you, that's your problem. If I made a post saying that its perfectly OK to mutilate baby girls genitals, I would be the one called a horrible person and not those who abhorred it.
It's not my problem that you're a horrible person.
I don't know what this FGM is, but one thing is for sure. The world doesn't go crazy over circumcision (only against a certain detail of it which isn't really required...) and it's only you atheists who care. All the "victims" of circumcision are happy with it when they get older. Besides, you have yet to respond to my relative morality argument.
How did those little boys get herpes? They go it from a rabbi sucking their penis.