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doubleAtheist's picture

I find it very disturbing some states overuled by christians and republicans continue to teach abstinence as the only birth control, or how the church continues to say that using contreception is a sin..



And the funnt thing is these people who preach/teach that abstinence is the only way believe a virgin got pregnant... Like what?

Obviously safe sex should be taught at highschool lvl but thats just me.

Whats your stance on this issue?

Sade sex or abstinence?

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Sir Random's picture
Well, safe , s' long as te'

Well, safe , s' long as te' partacers ARrrrr consenting an' the be no legal problems.


O', ye ment before at'.

ThePragmatic's picture
Abstinence as birth control

Abstinence as birth control is, to be nice, a bad idea.

Statistics indicate that both unintended pregnancies and abortion is higher where abstinence is taught. There is no indication that it reduces sexual activity among young people.

Instead, it triggers people to find ways around the rule, or to find ways to rationalize them breaking against the rule.
That's why the good old American tradition of having sex in "God's loophole", was introduced.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j8ZF_R_j0OY (funny)

And in my view, abstinence is largely the basis for the problem organized religion has with it's numerous scandals of sexual child abuse.

mykcob4's picture
Stats prove that abstinence

Stats prove that abstinence doesn't work. I saw a documentary of a very religious town in America that forced abstinence on the children. As a result they had one of the highest teenage pregnancies in the nation. They also had a big problem with backroom abortions that cause death and harm to the mothers.
Teenage sex is going to happen. Rape and incest are going to happen.
The republicans and conservatives live in a bubble. Time to pop the bubble!

CyberLN's picture
I have just never understood

I have just never understood the value placed on virginity. It seems so silly to me. Why the heck do so many folks think (consentual) sex is such a big deal? Why do we shame people for engaging in sex? Particularly young people...even when they do it safely. Why is there even such a thing as a 'slut'? Abstinence is, and should be, a personal choice. Being sexually active is, and should be, a personal choice. Teaching abstinence as a preferred birth control method is absolute silliness and does, and will continue, to lead to unwanted pregnancies.

ThePragmatic's picture
These are good questions.

These are good questions.

The specific importance of virginity, seems to me as nothing more than an assurance that the child will be of the fathers decent. If the woman is a virgin, no one else could have snuck in between and be the real father of the child.

As for the other questions... To be fair, the fact that birth control wasn't readily available in the past is probably a practical reason for keeping such a view. A way to keep "bastard" children out of the family.

But it's evident that a lot of if stems from religion, as most religions is brimming with misogyny and controlling of women (as well as everyone else).
But there is no need for those old ways any more. Now it's up to humankind to grow up, and out of the that outdated and unnecessary view.

CyberLN's picture
I agree, Prag. Excellent

I agree, Prag. Excellent point about contraceptive availability in days gone by.

Interesting the concern with genetic decent from the male side in human culture. I suppose children, along with women, have traditionally been preconsciously considered property as well.

What I find the saddest is the shaming people dish out to those who have sex without marriage. And one cannot escape that girls are more frequently and intensively shamed than boys. Why do so many fathers, for instance get all puffy around boys their daughters date? Advertisers even promote that behavior in TV commercials. Like their daughter's virginity is theirs and must be protected. Gawd!

ThePragmatic's picture
I'm answering with a bit of a

I agree with you.
It's appalling that we as intelligent, self aware beings with a capacity for empathy are still trapped in this stupid and ancient behavior.

(I'm answering with a bit of a rant... It seems the subject is pushing some buttons in my mind. :)

"Interesting the concern with genetic decent from the male side in human culture."

That probably is the main point driving all of this:
Evolution is all about maximizing the spread of the genes that the individual carries. In most species throughout history, males being the sex that has a very low cost at spreading his genes, can have several females and also has to be dominant to keep them.
Females on the other hand, being the sex that has a significantly higher cost for spreading her genes, does better by submitting to a powerful male who can protect her.
(By cost, I mean the energy and time that has to be invested in procreation.)

I consider humans to be animals who have gained intelligence and self consciousness (depending on your definition of those words.)
We have such a tremendous opportunity as a species of intelligent beings, to rise above our preprogrammed animal instincts. But few of us embrace this opportunity (at least to any extent that makes any difference). Just as it can feel great to embrace our animal nature, it can also feel tremendous to rise above it. We are making a lot of progress, but religion (and greed) is fighting it every step of the way. I fear that religion will destroy this opportunity completely, by working against thinking, science, tolerance, etc.

I think "slut shaming" also stems all the way back to that females have a high cost in procreation, while the dominant male is interested in protecting his own genes. A male animal would not take kindly to a "bastard" child growing within "his" female. And it's not at all uncommon that males kills the children of another male, just because that will make the female ready to mate again. Protecting and spreading the genes is what matters most...

As I see it, misogyny stems from much older behaviour than just religion. But religion fights progress and free thinking, so in effect it's fighting to keep us trapped in animal instincts, and a never ending loop of ignorant procreation. It's very ironic, since religion often make such a point in separating humans a special creation, way above the status of animals...
Actually, when I think about it: Religion has actually formalized and written down some of these ancient animal instincts!

I realize that marriage between one man and one woman, contradicts this. But that is an exception. And, if I remember correctly, the old testament it allows men to have sex with female slaves (even if they are married).

CyberLN's picture
I think that the procreation

I think that the procreation drive in males accounts for a large percentage of the Madonna / whore complex. However, our large prefrontal cortex provide us the opportunity to circumvent that. Sadly, too many choose not to do so. My teen granddaughter has has sexual intercourse with her boyfriend. Her parents were pleased they used contraceptives. His parents shamed him for it. Oh, how sad is that!?

ThePragmatic's picture
Exactly. And shaming their

Exactly. And shaming their son like that will only be counter productive and drive a wedge in between them.

Pitar's picture
So, like, the granddaughter

So, like, the granddaughter and the boyfriend sold tickets to the show?

How is it that such a personal act got publicized within the extended family in the first place? That is beyond too odd to me, no insult intended, because it's really absolutely no ones biz.

The catholic hold on the idea that sex is for procreative purposes only is a pant-load. Large catholic families were/are the norm and if that isn't enough evidence that they thoroughly enjoy bumping uglies I don't know what is.

Abstinence is considered a moral. Why? Because the vows of celibacy taken by the catholic clergy is held to that level. What's good for Father Boybugger has got to be good for the parishioners. So it goes that boys should zip it and girls shouldn't bend at the waist is considered to be keeping to the faith. Why? Knocking knees out of wedlock is a sin and getting pregnant out of wedlock is wholly of the devil's will. The child is a bastard and will forever be in the eyes of the catholic church.

King Henry the 8th bounced the pope and his faith right out of England with a single boot kick and then created the Church of England to fill the void. The pope would not divorce Henry from his various wives without bastardizing his children so he told the pope to put ketchup on his religion and eat it. Why, yes, I do consider Henry one of my heroes. Why do you ask?

Anyway, abstinence is wholly unnatural to naturally fornicating animals so therein lies the problem. People need to have sex. They should be smart about it so that an unwanted pregnancy is avoided, but we all know people are not smart. Hence we have gods and religion.

Nyarlathotep's picture
One of the purposes of

One of the purposes of religion is to regulate sexual access to women of prime reproductive age.

hermitdoc's picture
As a father of a 13 year old

As a father of a 13 year old who has boys chasing her, I totally understand the "puffing up" mentality. Like it or not, sex comes with tremendous emotional attachments, especially (in my experience) for females. I completely understand that teenage sex is going to happen and from a purely physical standpoint, I don't see the big deal made about teenagers having sex. However, there is definitely an emotional price to pay for it when it is engaged in before both parties are mature enough to handle it. That is what I would hope to help protect my daughter from.

CyberLN's picture
IMO, sex only comes with the

IMO, sex only comes with the tremendous emotional attachment you describe because we believe it should. Sex is fun. As a female, prior to establishing a contractual agreement to have an exclusive sexual arrangement with someone, I engaged in a lot of it, wit a lot of different partners. It was great. It was fun. What is there to handle? Procreating and raiding offspring is an entirely different matter. Sex is just sex...

CyberLN's picture
And, by the way, I've been

And, by the way, I've been the parent of both 13 year old boys and girls. No difference that I could see.

nekoburo's picture
Finally, a woman after my own

Finally, a woman after my own heart. I am heartily sick and tired of sex being used as a weapon and not the purely pleasurable act that it is. It's just sex. Religion and society have brainwashed us into believing that sex should hold some higher purpose. What happens between consenting adults shouldn't be an opportunity to embarrass or shame someone, usually the woman, but not always. It's no ones business but their own. If I want to fuck the entire grocery store, individually or all at once, it's no one else's business. Their opinion shouldn't and doesn't matter to me. Another thing that bothers me is that sex is not love. Never has been. I will admit, if you love your partner, you feel more connected to them, but that is just a bonus, not a price for admission. Experimenting shouldn't be off limits to a young person exploring their sexuality and they shouldn't be made to feel ashamed about it. I advocate strongly for sex education at an early age. My own daughter was not harmed by my telling her about sex when she started junior high. I wanted her to have facts, not rumors; and certainly, not ideologies of what other people think sex and sexuality should be.

Amyclas Amatin's picture
One societal issue is the

One societal issue is the expression of sexuality in teenagers. The underlying emotions and passions of sex are never a safe thing that can be controlled. The traditional framework that society is build on is designed for stability of the group, and it's not the kindest towards sexual awakening and realization in young people, especially young people who do not conform to the ideals of the group.

But even in this brave new world, sex education needs to be much more than how to have safe-sex. Men and women need to know how to have personal boundaries respected. Children need to be taught how to take ownership of their sexuality. Children learning about sex also need to know how to be comfortable and accepting of themselves as sexual beings.

Sex is one of the deepest and most emotional experiences a person can have. But that's an understatement. It's a force so powerful that it can lead to both deep satisfaction or great resentment and frustration. There's more than enough information about the mechanical aspects of sex. But most adults are clueless on how to address the deeper psychological and emotional issues of love and desire.

And this coming from a 23 year old male. I dropped out of church for about a year now.

Sir Random's picture
Ma being a 16 year old I don

Me being a 16 year old I don't feel I have input here.

Note: yes I am temporarily out of the pirate vernacular, just because I get tired of seeing so many "te'"s

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
They are discussing how you

They are discussing how you should do safe sex, and of course your opinion is irrelevant lol.

Sir Random's picture
Jeff, ye' repeated what I

Jeff, ye' repeated what I already pointed out.

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
As I said your opinion is

As I said your opinion is irrelevant :P

Lol jokes aside, I do respect everybody opinion even if he is a 10 year old, actually some 5 year old have more common sens then some people I would not mention here.

Sir Random's picture
Jeff, ye blaggerd, shut ye

Jeff, ye blaggerd, shut ye trap 'fore I make ye a villain in me in progress book " The Flustered Sail"
Yes, I be written a pirateical book about te' seafaring tales o' Cap'n Random, most dramatic pirate te sail te 'igh seas (wit' many more traits te be added later)

Jeff Vella Leone's picture


Sir Random's picture
Ere' be an excerpt for ye:

Ere' be an excerpt for ye:

"Avast, mateys. This be a recolectin' place fer te' Sea Faring Tales o' Cap'n Random- most dramatic pirate te' sail te' igh' seas( with many more traits teh be added later)
Note: all talk in story will be non pirate except for actual speech by characters.

We start on a day like any other. Cap'n Random and his crew(the original werabouts of which are unknown) were sailing through the high seas, on a day so sunny it made many a watchman think twice before climbing the crows nest. "Arrggg", thought Random," even I ave' no idea ere' 'xactly is' lot came from. I don' even know ere' meself came from fer certain. Aye, it'll probably be revealed in som' big expositions backstory watcha-ma-call-it thing a few posts from now." Now, disregarding that Random nearly broke the forth wall "Aye, ere' tha' stale beer d' at' ere' narrator com' from? " (ahem) we return to the sceen of his crew and his ship, the Not Quite Jolly An' Definitely Not A Roger, we see him getting irrated at the fact that his crew keeps shantying, and he keeps having to get them to pay attention." Arrr, ye blaggerds, keep yer eye(s) on te' shoreline, er' else we'll end up sunk er' marooned!" Still, Random's crew did not listen."

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
" The Flustered Sail"

" The Flustered Sail"

When I read it the fist time I thought it was
" The Flustered Snail"


Then this post came alone and said, WTF?

Please deliver an explanation for you story since its gonna be hard for anyone to understand wtf are you taking about.

Sir Random's picture
Aye, as I said it be the

Aye, as I said it be the Collection of seafaring tales o' Cap'n Random. They be in no specific order, time, er levle of truthfulness. It be the randomest collection of seafaring tales since The Continueus Salty Tale:

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
The funny part is that this

The funny part is that this is exactly how the bible was written, but instead of a pirate theme you had a prophet theme.

Sir Random's picture
Arr, Jeff, check me new form

Arr, Jeff, check me new form at the Hub

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
What is your nick there?

What is your nick there?


Attach Image/Video?: 

Sir Random's picture


And I mentioned the Atheist hub

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
u told them that their forum

u told them that their forum seems dead lol :P


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