Anyone willing to dialogue with a Christian about their atheism?

75 posts / 0 new
Last post
StanRoofner's picture
I will go with evidence, as

I will go with evidence, as when I think of the term proof I usually go to mathematics.

1. The beginning of the Universe from nothing (and by nothing I am not referring to a quantum vacuum because that is something)
2. Fine tuning of the universe to allow for life.
3. The origin of life. Even if we were to agree on Darwinian evolution, that process can't begin until there is life which can evolve
4. Objective moral values.
5. Rationality. If our thoughts are nothing more the product of chemical laws, etc... then why would we trust them as reflecting truth

Now my guess is that you will not accept these as 'good' evidence, and that is fine. They have been around for a very long time and continue to be debated among theists and atheists and everyone in between. With that being said if you are willing I would like to discuss these with you further and find out why you personally do not accept them. Maybe we can discuss one or two at a time so that they can be treated thoughtfully.

Thanks MCD!

algebe's picture


Let's just look at number 3, the origin of life.

I've heard Xtians argue that the spontaneous formation of life is statiscally impossible. They usually quote some vast number as the odds against it. Those odds are typically based on the idea that one set of chemicals in one location spontaneously formed a self-replicating organism. But the early oceans were a chemical soup with reactions going on over millions of years in countless cubic kilometers of warm, dirty water. It wasn't one lottery ticket in one game. It was an almost infinite number of tickets in an almost infinite number of games over millions of years. Science hasn't yet discovered the process that resulted in life. Science hasn't yet discovered a lot of things. That is not evidence that god was involved. It's just evidence that we have more work to do.

SBMontero's picture

1.- When you say "the beginning of the universe from nothing" you're lying, or have not picked up a physics book in your life, well I know that is more likely to exist god, but, sure, Google exist. The cosmic microwave background (CMB) leaves no room for doubt about the Big Bang and, therefore, we know that the universe already existed before, only in another form.
2.- The universe isn't adjusted to receive life, life is the product of very clear physical and chemical laws, every orderly system tends to disorder, every orderly system tends to order.
3.- You don't need to agree with the evolutionary fact, the evolutionary fact is indisputable, like it, don't like it, want it or don't want it, and the bones of your inner ear demonstrate it, well, the bones of your inner ear and a little thing that you have like every living being on this planet, DNA... by the way, Do you know that you share a large part of your DNA with your cousins, the great apes? Or do you also think can deny that?
4.- There're only three "moral" points that horrify the common humanity, murder, cannibalism and incest, and all three can vary if the vital circumstances that affect the individuals who sustain them vary... and I can prove it.
5.- Sorry, Are you saying that a dolphin, an elephant, or a bonobo can not think? Or are you saying that their thoughts are products of chemistry and ours not, or that none is a product of chemistry? Clarify. The lack of clarity when someone says something ends up becoming all men are equal before the law and leaving out half the country because of their gender. Clarify.

No one can accept that as 'good' evidence, because it isn't evidence of anything... well, maybe about you haven't picked up a physics, biology and anthropology book in your life. And to make it clear, no, there're no physicists who question the big bang fact (There's even a fucking photo), no, there're no biologists who question the evolutionary fact and no, there're no anthropologists who question that anything as simple as culture not only exists in the realm of the human species.

You're welcome, ChristFollower!

mykcob4's picture

That isn't even mathematical proof.
1) Something from nothing HAS been proven by REAL mathematicians and physicist.
2) I have no idea what you mean here.
3) Refer to #1
4) Morals don't come from a god. Morality comes from society. It is dynamic and subjective. There is no such thing as objective morality.
5) This statement makes no sense so it isn't proof of anything.

It's not good evidence, it's not evidence at all.

xenoview's picture

I'm an Atheist, your atheist to all the other humans god but the one you believe in. So easy for you to take that last step an become an Atheist like me.

StanRoofner's picture
Can you give me some positive

Can you give me some positive evidence to give me a reason to give up my belief in God?


Tom De Greyt's picture
The christian god is

The christian god is maximally good.
If god is all that exists, then reality is maximally good.
The christian god created a sinful being : man.
A reality in which sin exists is not maximally good.
The christian god has made reality less than maximally good by creating man.
Therefore the christian god is not maximally good.
Ergo : the christian god does not exist.

xenoview's picture
Freedom from guilt of sin and

Freedom from guilt of sin and fear of hell. Life is so much better when you don't have the shackles of religion weight you down.

SBMontero's picture
@ChristFollower: It's simple,

@ChristFollower: It's simple, if god isn't necessary to create the universe, the Milky Way, the solar system or life, and we know it isn't... Why is it necessary? For what exactly? And, if god doesn't exist, What do religions do for?

You're welcome!

algebe's picture
@ChristFollower: "Can you

@ChristFollower: "Can you give me some positive evidence to give me a reason to give up my belief in God?"

Do you want to give up your belief in god? If you do, open your mind and you'll see that there's evidence all around you.

The positive evidence is in the light from the sun and stars, in the rocks beneath your feet, in the DNA of every living thing you see, and in your brain. The negative evidence is that not one shred of proof has ever been found for any single claim in the Bible, from Adam and Eve to the Crucifixion.

StanRoofner's picture
Hi everyone! I am beginning

Hi everyone! I am beginning to find these discussion threads a bit cluttered. I also find that I am missing questions and such directed at me and I really don't want to do that. So with that being said I created a specific Gmail account this morning so that maybe we can continue our discussions via email. I see my email everyday so I will constantly be aware that people are contacting me with further questions and discussion points. I'm sorry I can't monitor this as much as I want to. I am a software engineer and I am currently working on Check processing software that is being used by the Federal Reserve as well as half a dozen other banks and it is really using a lot of my time. Additionally, I am pursuing a second master's degree in philosophy and there is just a little reading that goes along with that :0) So here is the email that you can reach me at:

This is the first time that I have done these discussions online and I really didn't know what to expect as far as a response goes, so I do apologize for that. If any of you want to continue conversing with me please reach out to me via email and I will respond to you as quickly as possible even if it is just to acknowledge your email. For those who don't want to continue I do wish you all the best. The things that have been mentioned in just this short week in these posts have stretched me intellectually and I really enjoy that. I know that we obviously have come to different conclusions about things but I do respect all of you even if you don't feel the same way about me.

Good luck to those who I don't hear from again, and to those who I do I can't wait to see where are conversations go.

Blessings to you all!

SBMontero's picture
No. This is a discussion

No. This is a discussion forum, I'm not interested in discussing religion with any preacher through my email.

The exorcist's girl bless you

xenoview's picture
Looks like the kitchen got to

Looks like the kitchen got to hot for poor Larry.

Usagi's picture
Blah, dude never addressed

Blah, dude never addressed the fact that if everything has to have a creator, then God also needs to have a creator as well. Typical.


Donating = Loving

Heart Icon

Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.

Or make a one-time donation in any amount.