Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
Log in or create an account to join the discussions on the Atheist Republic forums.
Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
FREE E-BOOKS
Get the book "Why There Is No God" and one more book for FREE!
Sign up below for the Atheist Republic Newsletter to get the books.
Record Your Message!
Record your voice here for it to be aired on the Atheist Republic Voicemails Podcast.
Send us your views and opinions, your personal stories, messages of support, comments on recent news, or any comments you would like to share about your part of the world.
Note : By clicking record you are allowing us to broadcast your message on any of our platforms.
Affiliate Disclaimer
Links to atheist related books, shirts and movies and other atheism related products are affiliate links.
All proceeds will go to keeping the Atheist Republic website up and running; providing resources, advocacy, community tools and encouragement to atheists all over the world.
1. "why not consult the Jews scholars? Is there fear of something?" - I'll go one further. I'll quote the Babylonian Talmud. Babylonian Talmud, Sukkah 52a: "Our Rabbis taught, The Holy One, blessed be He, will say to the Messiah, the son of David (May he reveal himself speedily in our days!), ‘Ask of me anything, and I will give it to thee’, as it is said, I will tell of the decree etc. this day have I begotten thee, ask of me and I will give the nations for thy inheritance [Psalms 2:7-8]."
2. "Psalm 2, and 110, are messianic Psalms, but not messianic prophecies." - The above proves that Psalm 2 is prophetic. Psalm 110 tells of things to come. E.g. "he will crush kings on the day of his wrath. He will judge the nations, heaping up the dead and crushing the rulers of the whole earth. He will drink from a brook along the way, and so he will lift his head high." This is all future tense. It doesn't take a scholar to understand that.
3. "What Christian scholars (or Islam) say has no value. They are texts that appropriated them without legitimacy, they are not theirs, they were directed only to the Israelite-Jews." - Just because they're religion/beliefs are different, doesn't mean that they are wrong.
4. "When was Jesus king of Israel?" - A king is someone who has authority to rule and reign over a group of people. Jesus is just such a king. He is called the King of the Jews by the Magi (Matt. 2:2), and Jesus accepts that title in Matt. 27:11, "Now Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor questioned Him, saying, 'Are You the King of the Jews?' And Jesus said to him, 'It is as you say.'” Matt. 21:5 speaks of Jesus and says, "Behold your King is coming to you, gentle, and mounted on a donkey." Remember, Jesus is King in that he rules and judges. "And I saw heaven opened; and behold, a white horse, and He who sat upon it is called Faithful and True; and in righteousness He judges and wages war." (Rev. 19:11). The armies follow him (Rev. 19:14).
5. "Psalm 22 is one of the most employees-distorted- to justify the messiahship of Jesus: this Psalm is part of the context of a prophetic canticle, and refers exclusively to who will happen to the Jews of Persia, and more specifically to the intervention of Esther and Purim, and has no ties with the messiah: translated from the Hebrew, the Psalm begins by saying “The Chief Musician. About Aielet hashajar. A Psalm of David.” Aielet hashajar was a nickname of Esther. Written centuries after the fact, the Psalm, however, is attributed to David." - What makes think that it refers to the Jews of Persia. And how do know it is of Ester and not David.
UnKnown.
MA (MiltonAsh): why not consult the Jews scholars? Is there fear of something? –
UK (UnKnown): “I'll go one further. I'll quote the Babylonian Talmud. Babylonian Talmud, Sukkah 52a…”:
No; you go too far: All Jewish sacred texts are subject to interpretation, but not by Gentiles. These do not even have authority to transcribe them, which is what you do. Repeating: The only ones allowed to interpret their sacred texts are the Jewish scholars themselves, no one else, including Midrash, Talmud, etc., and Psalms, of course.
Who gave authority to the Gentiles to interpret and take possession of them?
Do you know that Tanakh prohibits removing or adding a word o fact from your texts? That's what Jesus himself said!
MA: Psalm 2, and 110, are messianic Psalms, but not messianic prophecies. –
UK: “The above proves that Psalm 2 is prophetic. Psalm 110 tells of things to come. E.g. "he will crush kings on the day of his wrath. He will judge the nations, heaping up the dead and crushing the rulers of the whole earth. He will drink from a brook along the way, and so he will lift his head high." This is all future tense. It doesn't take a scholar to understand that.”
Repeating: The above proves that you have entered dangerous ground: you are not authorized to transcribe nor interpret the sacred Jewish texts. A Jewish scholar may have another interpretation.
MA: What Christian scholars (or Islam) say has no value. They are texts that appropriated them without legitimacy, they are not theirs, they were directed only to the Israelite-Jews. –
UK: “Just because they're religion/beliefs are different, doesn't mean that they are wrong.”
Of course they are different (and contradictory), you admit it yourself, you just destroyed Christianity, unintentionally, I suppose. Repeating: Judaism does not admit second revelations, it does not admit something different, it is the unique and definitive revelation: it is not possible to create a new religion from the Judaism. Do you want Bible quotes or do you already know them?
MA: When was Jesus king of Israel? –
UK: “A king is someone who has authority to rule and reign over a group of people. Jesus is just such a king.”
Ugh! Awesome! Repeating: And who gave that authority to Jesus? When? In what kingdom did he reign?
UK: “He is called the King of the Jews by the Magi (Matt. 2:2), and Jesus accepts that title in Matt. 27:11, "Now Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor questioned Him, saying, 'Are You the King of the Jews?' And Jesus said to him, 'It is as you say.'” Matt. 21:5 speaks of Jesus and says, "Behold your King is coming to you, gentle, and mounted on a donkey." Remember, Jesus is King in that he rules and judges. "And I saw heaven opened; and behold, a white horse, and He who sat upon it is called Faithful and True; and in righteousness He judges and wages war." (Rev. 19:11). The armies follow him (Rev. 19:14).”
Repeating: What Christian scholars (or Islam) say has no value: the New Testament is nonsense, from beginning to end, including that title.
A king of Israel (messiah) must be legally anointed by legal Jewish means, those authorized by Yahweh himself, only that, not inventions of Gentiles. You do not seem to know them. Do I tell you?
MA: Psalm 22 is one of the most employees-distorted- to justify the messiahship of Jesus: this Psalm is part of the context of a prophetic canticle, and refers exclusively to who will happen to the Jews of Persia, and more specifically to the intervention of Esther and Purim, and has no ties with the messiah: translated from the Hebrew, the Psalm begins by saying “The Chief Musician. About Aielet hashajar. A Psalm of David.” Aielet hashajar was a nickname of Esther. Written centuries after the fact, the Psalm, however, is attributed to David.-
UK: “What makes think that it refers to the Jews of Persia. And how do know it is of Ester and not David.”
Repeating: Because it is asserted by Jewish scholars, who are (only) authorized for that.
Repeating: consult the Jews scholars or use faith; Is all that is left for you, and, please do not insist on things I have already said.
I am going to try (emphasis on 'try') and tackle your biggest objection to what I am saying. The objection being "Who gave authority to the Gentiles to interpret and take possession of them?" - Because these 'Gentiles' are educated in this area. Plus,the Jewish texts on the internet, that how some got possession of them.
Okay, but it's not necessary to try it on the internet; Is in the Bible itself. The chosen ones are the Israelite-Jews, the divinity only addressed to them; The rest are the Gentiles. Christianity teaches something very different, without permission from anyone.
By the way, where will you look for it? In Christian or Jewish sites?
1. "Christianity teaches something very different, without permission from anyone." - Why is permission needed.
2. "the divinity only addressed to them" - The divinity is addressed to God's people. In the NT, God's people is extended to the Gentiles as well.
3. Just because it is not addressed to us doesn't mean we can't study it. There are NT scholars who aren't christian, but I don't see you saying to them that they have to right, nor the permission, to do so.
MA.Christianity teaches something very different, without permission from anyone. -
UK. "Why is permission needed."
Wow! I have already said: because no one can interfere in the Jewish sacred texts.
2. MA. The divinity only addressed to them -
UK. "The divinity is addressed to God's people. In the NT, God's people are extended to the Gentiles as well."
The divinity was only addressed to the Israelite-Jews: these are the people of God. Do you want Tanakh dates?
In the NT? How do I have to say that the NT has no value? Judaism does not admit second revelations ... I repeat again.
3. UK. "Just because it is not addressed to us does not mean we can not study it. There are NT scholars who are not christian, but I do not see you saying they are right, nor the permission, to do so."
You can study it (I suppose) but as an entertainment, do not build a religion over Judaism, changing, misrepresenting, omitting, adding; This does not allow it.
Should I repeat it many more times?
1. "Then Unknown continues to embarrass himself and says the bible isn’t specific on masturbation, the Hell it isn’t!" - What do you mean by interfere
2. "Judaism does not admit second revelations" - And I am saying it does.
3. "You can study it (I suppose) but as an entertainment, do not build a religion over Judaism, changing, misrepresenting, omitting, adding" - Which we are not doing.
EDIT:
Holy crap, sorry about this, but I cut and pasted the wrong thing in point 1!!! I mean " I have already said: because no one can interfere in the Jewish sacred texts." instead of the masturbation thing. Sorry about that.
1. MA. I have already said: because no one can interfere in the Jewish sacred texts.-
UK. “What do you mean by interfere.”
Enter the house of someone who has not invited you, and pretend to have more rights than the owner (I do not know if I said it well).
2. MA. Judaism does not admit second revelations –
UK. “And I am saying it does.”
I can indicate where it says that the Bible does not admit second revelations. Can you indicate where the Bible admits them?
3. MA. You can study it (I suppose) but as an entertainment, do not build a religion over Judaism, changing, misrepresenting, omitting, adding –
UK. “Which we are not doing.”
Really not? Mr. UnKnown: the NT is a continuous nonsense, contradicted in fundamental theology with the OT, don’t agree in practically anything, practically fulfills no OT prophecy, the Jewish messiah has nothing to do with that admitted by Christianity, and much much more. Christianity changes, misrepresents, removes, adds… from the Torah.
4. UK. “I am going to try (emphasis on 'try') and tackle your biggest objection to what I am saying…”
When for?
Please, if you just want to believe and do not know, please do not waste everyone’s time. Thank you very much.
MiltonAsh
1. "Enter the house of someone who has not invited you" - That assumes what is being interfered with is private property, which is not the same in this case. In this case, the Psalms and co. are open to everyone. So we are not entering the house of someone else who doesn't want us to, it is we are entering the our own house when someone else doesn't want us to.
2. "pretend to have more rights than the owner" - They don't own all the copies of the scriptures, we own those. The copies I mean. What I am saying is that the educated more say than those who aren't educated.
3. "I can indicate where it says that the Bible does not admit second revelations." - Can you show those?
4. "Really not? Mr. UnKnown: the NT is a continuous nonsense, contradicted in fundamental theology with the OT, don’t agree in practically anything, practically fulfills no OT prophecy, the Jewish messiah has nothing to do with that admitted by Christianity, and much much more." - What I think this boils down to is whether OT prophecy is actually prophecy and whether it is fulfilled.
5. "When (What) for?" - Because I want to argue.
1.MA. Enter the house of someone who has not invited you. –
UK. “That assumes what is being interfered with is private property, which is not the same in this case. In this case, the Psalms and co. are open to everyone. So we are not entering the house of someone else who doesn't want us to, it is we are entering the our own house when someone else doesn't want us to.”
Already clarified: I repeat for the last time. It is open to no one but the Jews. It is the exclusive property of them. The gentiles suppose that they can analyze what they want, but only as entertainment, not to appropriate something that is not theirs.
NIV:
“He has revealed his word to Jacob,
his laws and decrees to Israel.
He has done this for no other nation;
they do not know his laws.” Psalms 147:19-20. See also Deuteronomy 4:7-8; Psalms 148:14…
“He made known his ways to Moses,
his deeds to the people of Israel…
But from everlasting to everlasting
the LORD’s love is with those who fear him,
and his righteousness with their children’s children—
with those who keep his covenant
and remember to obey his precepts.” Psalms 103:7;17-18.
“His precepts,” “his covenant,” “with their children’s children,” he made known his ways to Moses, and the people of Israel. Christianity is a thief of ideas and beliefs. A fraud.
2. MA … pretend to have more rights than the owner –
UK. “They don't own all the copies of the scriptures, we own those.”
How? I repeat for the last time. The scriptures are only the Jews texts: with them the revelation was finished. With them they wait for the true messiah, nothing more:
“Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you.” Deuteronomy 4:2.
“So be careful to do what the LORD your God has commanded you; do not turn aside to the right or to the left.” Deuteronomy 5:32.
“Do not add to his words,
or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.” Proverbs 30:6.
UK. “The copies I mean. What I am saying is that the educated more say than those who aren't educated.”
In your fantastic world.
3. MA. I can indicate where it says that the Bible does not admit second revelations. –
UK. “Can you show those?”
I already said yes.
4. MA. Really not? Mr. UnKnown: the NT is a continuous nonsense, contradicted in fundamental theology with the OT, don’t agree in practically anything, practically fulfills no OT prophecy, the Jewish messiah has nothing to do with that admitted by Christianity, and much much more.–
UK. “What I think this boils down to is whether OT prophecy is actually prophecy and whether it is fulfilled.”
See “Jesus, the False Messiah” (English and Spanish), “Prophecies of the Bible” (from Genesis to Revelation; in Spanish only).
5. MA. When for? –
UK. (What for?) Because I want to argue.
I wanted to express: When will you try?
Bye
1. I think we had different ideas of what the 'house' represented. I thought it meant owning the actual Psalms, like having permission to have a copy of the Psalms in your pocket, but you used to represent permission to study it and the like. This was a misrepresentation on my part. But I would like to state, that if you are educated in the area of Psalm, like it's context, why it was written, and so on and so forth, then you can study and make conclusions based on it, because you are educated in this area.
I think the biggest problem is that I think that Psalms are prophetic, you don't. The people who say the Psalms are prophetic, however, are christian. I am willing to admit you have won this argument. Thank for this argument, I will look this topic up and see what I find, but I have already learned a lot from what you have have argued. Again, thank you.
UK. “I think we had different ideas of what the 'house' represented. I thought it meant owning the actual Psalms, like having permission to have a copy of the Psalms in your pocket, but you used to represent permission to study it and the like. This was a misrepresentation on my part. But I would like to state, that if you are educated in the area of Psalm, like it's context, why it was written, and so on and so forth, then you can study and make conclusions based on it, because you are educated in this area.”
Okay, study what you want, but: 1. "Educated in the area of Psalm": this is only the jurisdiction of Judaism. It is not the same "studying" or "informing," as a hobby, as when you do a crossword, that "educate." 2. But studying and informing does not imply misrepresentation. 3. First, you must be informed "correctly" of what they say, express, are, etc., the Psalms, the whole Tanakh, and that can only be done by a Jewish scholar. 4. If you want to be aware "properly" of the operation of, for example, an icebox, I suppose you will not go to an expert on bicycles. 5. Keep in mind that I also study, I analyze, to be able to write the books, but from the base, the foundation, the Judaism. Don’t put the cart before the horse.
UK. “I think the biggest problem is that I think that Psalms are prophetic, you don't. The people who say the Psalms are prophetic, however, are christian. I am willing to admit you have won this argument. Thank for this argument, I will look this topic up and see what I find, but I have already learned a lot from what you have have argued. Again, thank you.”
No, “you don’t,” no. This is guaranteed by Jewish scholars, they are the authority; I do not care.
Sorry for my English; my mother tongue is another.
Regards.
UnKnown,
The Bible says that prophecies have to come true within the prophet's lifetime or else he was full of crap.
Where does it say that?
UnKnown.
Deuteronomy 18:22 = https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Deuteronomy%2018:22
Okay, cheers
Tell me where in the New Testament it relates how god obtained Mary's consent before making her pregnant? In Luke 1 she replies to the angel that she's the handmaid of the lord, which makes it power abuse, like a master-slave relationship.
Yes its a tough one to ask but I will find a way to ask this. Thanks. And the reference is Luke 1:38.
1- Why did jesus curse the fig tree? And if it symbolises something, why figs? Why not cherries?
2- Rolling the stone on jesus' tomb, did it happen before or after the women came, and how many angels were there and who spoke?
3- How is jesus from David's seed if he's born of a virgin?
4- Who was stalking jesus and reporting the events when he was in the wilderness?
5- Why does jesus talk to the "Father" if he's the Father, since God is one just three icons.
6- Herod the Great or Augustus?
7- Did jesus have sibling? How many?
You guys just don't make any sense.
Thanks for your beautiful response. Question by question.
1- According to my knowledge fig tree symbolizes Jews and Jesus cursed fig tree means He cursed Jews. And why not cherries? is based on belief. But for the sake of knowledge I will ask.
2- I need reference for it please.
3- Yes this is a theological question but I also need reference of it.
4- Sure I will ask.
5- Well I have asked this one before. According to them, Jesus was not one with God when He was in the human body. So He needed to talk physically in human body that proves that God came for us in human body. (Well, its a topic of trinity).
6- Reference Please. Or give me some details on it so i can find reference.
7- Well this one I know. Jesus have one siblings if we talk in the sense that Jesus is the son of God and God have only one son. And I have not found any cross reference for this one.
Please note that These are only based on my knowledge. Thanks.
1- they say in the bible that it was not the season of figs. Does that mean it was not the season of jews? And based on belief, what does that mean?
2- matthew 28:2 Luke 23:1 Mark 16:3
3- Romans 1
5-Jesus was not one with god, this implies jesus was not god right? Jesus needed to talk with god to prove to us that god came for us in human body?
This is a whole new level of circular arguments.
6-matthew 1 And Luke 1
7- John 7
Why the FUCK did you even come here?
Why is your moniker a version of the treasonous rebel flag?
With respect, thanks for you abusive response.
Why I am here? Because I needed some thought questions so I thought that is forum can help me.
Its just my profile pic. there is nothing to discuss about it.
@MJM
"Its just my profile pic. there is nothing to discuss about it."
Of course, there is something to discuss about it. Any symbolism that represents racism should be the forefront of discussion.
"Why I am here? Because I needed some thought questions so I thought that is forum can help me."
Thought questions? For WHAT? Christians don't think, they just obey!
Why the FUCK do you have to take the question and come back later to answer? I'm sure you and your organization are just trading propaganda techniques to try out.
So I'll play your silly little game. Where in all of the bible is god proven, I mean with real and credible evidence?
And here is a REAL tough question. How can you prove the bible is factual? With REAL credible evidence!
So, 1) Explain your racist moniker don't just avoid the question.
2) Show in the bible where god is proven with REAL credible evidence.
And, 3) Prove that the bible is factual with REAL credible evidence.
I put it to you that you chose your moniker because you are indeed a racist. That god isn't proven anywhere, and the bible isn't credible at all.
Also if you think my initial reply to you is abusive, then you don't have the guts to actually face anything other than "softball" questions. You can't imagine how much abuse atheist take on a daily basis.
Dude. Chill.
1. "Of course, there is something to discuss about it. Any symbolism that represents racism should be the forefront of discussion." - I google searched the image at it seems to be associated with an album called "Southern by the Grace of God". URL: https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZisKx8s7Uw-wAZaSg8QuU8R4BX71AT...
2. "Thought questions? For WHAT? Christians don't think, they just obey!" - I could say the same thing about us and the government. You may respond with that we protest and question the government. But Christians also question the bible. That's why bible colleges were set up.
3. "Why the FUCK do you have to take the question and come back later to answer?" - Because he wants to answer questions.
4. "I'm sure you and your organization are just trading propaganda techniques to try out." - Or maybe he just wants to answer questions.
5. "And here is a REAL tough question. How can you prove the bible is factual? With REAL credible evidence!" - There are vast quantities of books which attempt to answer this question. I doubt that we will manage to fit in this forum.
6. "You can't imagine how much abuse atheist take on a daily basis." - You act as though every person you talk to insults you every time you talk to them. Although atheists may get abused, so do Christians, Muslims, blacks, Redheads. Everyone does. You being an atheist doesn't make you special in this instance.
I have 6 questions for you to start.
1.) How can people know that God exists if you cannot comprehend God?
Example- We can't comprehend God (or the more often used "God works in mysterious ways"):We comprehend God so God exists.
From a logical stand point this is a paradox.
-Thank you for taking the time ;)
2.) People often ask that if God were real than God could just prove it. So why doesn't God prove it? A common response is that you need to have faith, a requirement needed but that isn't an answer, or that God says that he does not need, and should not be asked, to prove his existence. If that is so, than why did God talk to prophets and have them write down his words, therefore "ensuring" his existence?
3.) Why does God change his mind so often but Christians say that he does not?
a- God changed the age that people could live because he could not handle us living for so long.
b- God created us with one language, but then confounded them because he was scared of us.
c- God says that there are other gods but none as great as him, but later says there is only Him.
d- God says that he loves us, but often does things in opposition to what we consider decent, let alone love.
e- Moses changed Gods minds numerous times.
f- God changed his mind about how many good people needed to be living in Sodom and Gomorrah multiple times.
There are many more such contradiction.
4.) Jesus never ( in RED ) says anything about homosexuality. Why do his Disciples and Apostle?
5.) In Matthew, Jesus says watch out for false prophets, if someone is in the desert and says they saw Jesus don't believe them. This is the very thing that happened to Saul/Paul, who happens to have writing a vast majority of the NT. Why don't Christians ever seem to think that is and issue?
6.) Again in Matthew Jesus says that the bible is corruptible but that it is better to have it than to not. It is also reaffirmed in James. But both Christians and other Books state that the bible can't be change, and yet others state that if you change it you will be cursed. ( which means it can be changed ). Also with each new translation from the original, it does in fact change. Is there an answer for this?
I have left out the specific verses, chapters, and some times books because not only are you a student, but your a believer and should be more than happy to learn.
----------------------
Let the gymnastics begin!
O yeah. These are really some of the questions that I wanted. But can you give Bible references for most of the questions? For example, in first question, 1samuel and 2samuel have different stories but I need both references to complete my question. You know these people don't accept nothing without reference. Thanks.
@MJM "You know these people don't accept nothing without reference."
What people? What's the process here? Are you somebody's messenger boy?
I meant Theologians.
Pages