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We can see who's living rent free, and where.
Why do you fear atheism so much? It's not as if atheism makes any demands about how anyone lives their lives.
What is the penalty for apostasy in Islam?
Is it ever morally acceptable for an adult in their 50's to have sex with a child of 9?
You never answered these questions, in your "search for truth" I'd have thought having the basic integrity to acknowledge any apposite question about the beliefs your selling would be essential.
Theists come here and demand answers but steadfastly refuse to give any. Odd that....it makes me wonder what they're trying to hide.
@Searching for truth:
What's your point?
The video shows a couple of sneering anti-rationalists trying Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris in absentia.
Clearly they did what SFT can't, and had an original thought of their own. Even if it was risible nonsense. He'll soon be repeating his mantra, that atheists are obsessed with religion, and again failing to see the irony of where and who he's saying it to.
Aww, You have to chuckle at a person going under the name of 'Searching For Truth' promoting a video of Reza 'I'm an expert in this field' Aslan, A man who is a literal walking argument from authority.
1. Comparing a Radio to a God is a false analogy. Radios are real and radio waves are real, there is not now, nor has there ever been, a single shred of valid evidence for the existence of a God. Asserting that a primitive mind would not understand the radio like we do not understand god is just a very juvenile and quite ignorant position to assert.
2. Logic: You don't like it? What else can you offer? Faith? There is nothing that can not be believed on faith. If you do not like logic and reason please present another method of understanding life, the universe and everything. We would love to hear about it and its efficiency and effectiveness.
3. An "Evangelical Atheist Movement that is functionally religion." This is just a common error that the religious make. The religious see the world through a belief system. They make the assumption that everyone else has a belief system as well. While this is true to a degree, it is not Atheism. Atheism is the rejection of a belief system. Either the statement "God exists" is true or not true. To the atheist the statement is not true. This is not the same thing as saying God does not exit. It is the same thing as you telling me that the number of stars in the night sky is even. If I tell you that I do not believe you, I am not asserting that they are odd. I am just asserting that I do not believe you. Atheists reject God claims generally based on their lack of evidence. Theists have not met their burden of proof. This is not a belief system. We believe all sorts of other things. We believe most of the same things the theists believe. We simply reject the God claims. No religion. No Dogma. No Rituals, No magic. No special book. No supernatural beliefs.
4. Agnostics: The idiot does not know the meaning of the word, just like the morons who call themselves agnostic. A=without gnosis = knowledge. An agnostic has no knowledge of God or Gods. THAT'S EVERYONE!!! Everyone is agnostic. Agnostic Christian or Agnostic Atheist. Atheism is what you believe. Given that there is no evidence at all for the existence of a god or gods, do you believe one exists? If you say "No" you are an Atheist. If you say "Yes" you are a theist. There is no middle ground. If you can not make up your mind, you are confused. Apathests are people who just don't care. I like that word.
5. A ridged notion to a single notion of TRUTH? Atheism makes no claims. It is the rejection of truth claims made by the religious. (THESE GUYS ARE TOO BUSY AGREEING WITH EACH OTHER TO HAVE A LEGITIMATE DISCUSSION). They are setting up straw men so they can knock them down. Atheism - NOT A RELIGION, NO TRUTH CLAIMS.
6. Anti-theism is indeed a part of the new Atheist movement. I am an anti-theist regarding Churches (Religious Businesses that Rob People) and with regards to God or gods depending on their definitions. You define your god and I may take the antitheses position or the atheist position depending on the absurdity of your assertions.
7. Religion is comparable to small pox. "Richard Dawkins was wrong of course." It's a false comparison. However; I think the statement is rhetorical and not literal. Richard was simply expressing his disdain of religion. I would call the quote metaphorical and if Richard were challenged on the comparison, which he was not, he would have to admit that religions have done some good while small pox has not been good for anyone. (I yield this point to the theists.)
8. Sam Harris, "If I could wave a magic wand and get rid of rape or religion, I would get rid of religion." I have to agree. Religion is by far the worse of the two evils. People can be convicted of rape with evidence. We have a modicum of control over it. There is no control over the evil religion does. Priests can molest children as they please. There is no control over religious wars and hatred. Prejudice and hatred of non-believers, homosexuals, different belief systems and more are central tenants of the Abrahamic faiths. I would lose religion first.
9. "Forcibly Eradicated From Society. " An appeal to emotion and over simplification. Please show me where a group of atheists have forcibly made Christians leave a town. Show me where Christian Children are crying because all the atheist children are picking on them, The news is full of stories with the exact opposite conditions. Christians forcing atheists from their homes. Atheist children in schools being kicked off of teams for not praying and then being picked on so badly that they end up having to change schools. This is the pot calling the kettle black. Christians are assholes to the non-believers around them. This is clearly documented.
10. A minuscule percent of atheists in the country follow these dictated. Correct. About 20% of the 6% that make up atheists in the US. Most atheists are busy working and providing for their families and have no time for activism. Just like most Christians. (What's your point?) ( The research was done in Tennessee , the numbers are going to be higher.)
11. Most of my heroes were Atheist: Yep, because they knew how to keep their mouths shut less they be killed by the Christians around them, What he is really saying is that the only good atheist is a quiet atheist. Don't call out religions on their silly beliefs. Well... The time of special treatment for religious beliefs is over. If you are going to make unfounded assertions, you are going to be called out on them.
12. Another Straw Man. "Atheism is a belief system." No. Atheism is a LACK OF BELIEF IN GOD CLAIMS.
13. "Atheism is a set of propositions about the nature of reality" I can't wait to hear what these propositions are....... waiting......... apparently they can neither be proved or disproved. Still waiting to hear what they are.................. HUH? What happened.... He did not tell us what these propositions were. Now he is talking about science.
14. "Science is not an ideology." That's correct. So what? "It's a methodology." Correct again. So what? "It's lost in the discussions with new atheists? " Huh? That makes no sense at all. WTF are you on about. He is just babbling now.
15. Argumentum ad populum: I am not the first person to bring this up. Another Fallacy. To justify the previous babble.
16. The idiot just said science is a process and not an ideology, Now he calls it an ideology. It is replacing religion. MORON!!!
17. The idiot tries to tell us what the purpose of science is. Science has investigated religious claims and found them lacking. They have not met their burden of proof. Beyond that, science has nothing at all to say about religion. When the religious make a claim that effects the real world, "Like, Prayer Works," science can test the claim. So far, we know for a fact that prayer does not work and religion has not met its burden of proof. That which is asserted without evidence can be rejected without evidence. It's just that simple.
18. Science has no opinion on the matter of theism. "Theism" this is a correct claim. It is when theism make claims about the real world that science can test the claims. (Example of Prayer again).
19. "Science is just a method for understanding the method and function of the universe." Agreed. And when theists assert that their god is intervening in this way and that way, science can test for those interventions. So far, science has found no evidence of a god. (Hitchen's Razor Again) That which is asserted without evidence can be rejected without evidence.
20. "If you believe in god you are irrational." By any definition of irrationality, this is a true statement. Rationality implies the conformity of one's beliefs with one's reasons to believe, and of one's actions with one's reasons for action. Theists have no valid reasons for their belief systems that stand against critical inquiry. That is the very definition of irrational
There is nothing great about the minds that put this video together. Fallacy after fallacy, unsupported assertion, false information, and a pomposity without bounds. I give it two thumbs down.
the first minute... He says rationality and logic have limitations... how this fact would lead to gods being true is beyond me, false dichotomy here.
Well he's achieved common ground here fairly quickly. We all think his specious thread and the link are risible nonsense.
Brilliantly put Sheldon!
I actually thought it may be some time until we had to dust down and bring out this little fella again, but it seems apt now....
utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter bollocks.
The real question is how many rapes we would be rid of if we wished away religion.
Do we count the little boys or just the girls?
You have to count the little boys, catholic priests prefer them.
As always, just more imagiments of fignations.
BTW: I never watched the video. I got enough of what it was about by others posts. Why not try something that is actually interesting to watch like this: Best of Hitchslap Part 1
"There is nothing great about the minds that put this video together. Fallacy after fallacy, unsupported assertion, false information, and a pomposity without bounds. I give it two thumbs down"
"utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter, utter bollocks."
Nothing more to add about this moronic fucking cesspool of floating turds masquerading as "thought" .
Why is the video so long?
Theists are incapable of brevity, unsurprisingly really as having no objective evidence or compelling arguments for a belief inevitably makes people overly verbose. They're substituting qty for quality basically.
@Cog aka my Monkey Friend
Hello my monkey friend, I want to thank you for your honest (though misguided and contradictory) reply, while you displayed the same anger as others did, at least you were honest. By the way, this video was not posted to anger people rather, simply to get their opinion. Although it seems the Anti-theists in most of them is just too strong to ever objectively look at anything. Oh, and I am also hurt by your reply, your post seems to focus on Christianity while I am a Muslim, I would imagine a reply to my post would address Islam (cries in Muslim corner)
Yes and No. yes, for obvious reasons, I doubt I need to list them. No, because 1) Which god? 2) What tool/method are you using?
See what science has done has eliminated different models of god such as Zeus, Thor, Hercules or whoever. But, they have NOT, will NOT and CANNOT ever eliminate god until they 1) Define the god they are searching for 2) Use the right tool or method to discover/eliminate that god.
Again, which god and what tool/method is being used and is it the correct one? As you are a self-admitted Anti-theist I doubt you will provide an honest and unbiased answer. Please prove me wrong.
Exact same way Atheists believe that there is no evidence to prove god while they have no evidence to disprove god.
Not a Christian. Don’t care.
The rejection of a belief system is a belief system. Therefore, whether you like it or not, Atheism is a belief system.
More proof that atheism is a belief system.
Rejecting or accepting a claim based of lack of evidence is a belief. More proof that atheism is a belief system. By the way, Atheism being a belief system, in my opinion, does not hurt their “cause” but, the lack of accepting it as one hurts your claim and credibility.
Science is the dogma of the time and Atheism is the creed.
Don’t care not an Agnostic.
Seems my above comment was too early. Do you actually read what you typed prior to hitting send?
More proof that atheism is a belief system.
I agree with this statement and would like to add that even not believing in a god is still a form of belief.
The most accurate description of these forums so far lol. I won’t lie, Monkey, I am beginning to like you more and more.
I first want to thank god then you for your honest. Thank you (seriously)
I am glad you separated the 2. Most here I have noticed are actually anti-theists and not so much Atheist.
One of the main reasons I distrust Dawkins. The majority of what he says is clouded by his hate for religion rather, than giving an unbiased opinion. To be clear, there are also many Muslims I distrust for various reasons so don’t think I distrust Dawkins for simply being an atheist. Actually, it’s probably mainly because he’s an anti-theist more than he is an atheist.
Hmmmm.. Interesting choice of word there “metaphorical”. I have seen theists being mocked for saying something is metaphorical instead of literal. Yet, here we are with the anti-theist using that “excuse”. While I fully agree there are lots of things that are metaphorical regardless of whether it’s a theist or atheists that says them, it’s just interesting you would use it since you are an anti-theist (or is it atheist? Or both?)
What Sam Harris said and you agreeing only shows how ignorant you and Him are too religion. Only further highlights the blind hate provided and fueled by Anti-theism. I can write a whole essay on how mind numbingly senseless that comment is but, I would rather not.
Don’t care. Not a Christian
While I think this is a false statement, I wouldn’t mind if it came true. If whatever religion claims to be true is in fact true, it can only be proven as such without the special treatment. Kind of like the survival of the fittest. If something is true it would “survive” without the need of special treatment. Unfortunately for Atheists in the US, the US is a Christian nation, while that might change one day. I do not have hope it will change in my lifetime.
Yes, yes Atheism is a belief system. And that is not a negative thing, stop being blind by your hate and just accept it. Trust me, it won’t hurt your “cause”.
As I said before 1) Define the god they are searching for 2) Use the right tool or method to discover/eliminate that god. And I will add 3) Understand the claims that god/religion has claimed.
Actually no science cannot test that claim, stop lying. Unless that person says Prayer can make him fly then you don’t need science at the point, you need a hospital and some drugs (well, drugs are science but you know what I mean)
And what burden of proof is that exactly? Please elaborate in great detail.
Personally, I find the whole “Hitchen’s Razor” thing the cheapest, easiest, most idiotic and disingenuous cop out of an excuse of modern times. You can simply google the issues and problems with that statement, I won’t spend time spelling it out.
Completely disagree. As I said before 1) Define the god they are searching for 2) Use the right tool or method to discover/eliminate that god 3) Understand the claims that god/religion has claimed. Once have done these 3 steps then we can try and have a rational conversation.
Monkey friend, sorry if anything I said might come off as harsh or offensive as that was not my intention.
Searching For Truth, it seems to me that you are thinking we do not understand religions at all. Can you, as a self-identified muslim, tell us what islam claims?
By the way, you should post non-exhaustive answers, it makes your post rather long and tiring (for me at least).
What is the penalty for apostasy in Islam?
Is it ever morally acceptable for an adult in their 50's to have sex with a child of 9?
What objective evidence can you demonstrate that any deity exists?
"See what science has done has eliminated different models of god such as Zeus, Thor, Hercules or whoever."
Not even close to being true, there is no evidence for those beliefs, science by definition does not study fictional (metaphysical) ideas.
"But, they have NOT, will NOT and CANNOT ever eliminate god until they 1) Define the god they are searching for 2) Use the right tool or method to discover/eliminate that god."
Argument from ignorance fallacy, AGAIN. Science can't eliminate any non existent fictional beliefs, that's axiomatic. Your grammar is still execrable.
"And what burden of proof is that exactly? Please elaborate in great detail."
Easy, you cannot demonstrate one shred of objective evidence for your belief that any deity is real.
"Yes, yes Atheism is a belief system."
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
Getting a basic dictionary definition wrong like this repeatedly, means someone is either too stupid to bother with, or too dishonest to bother with, so which is it? Of course you could be both?
"Personally, I find the whole “Hitchen’s (sic) Razor” thing the cheapest, easiest, most idiotic and disingenuous cop out of an excuse of modern times."
Then you will be pleased to know this epistemological razor popularised by the late author and polemicist Christopher Hitchens, isn't modern, and it was widely used in the 19th century, and the oldest usage I could find was by a biblical scholar in 1704, Johann Georg Pritius. Though the hilarity of your lazy ill informed dismissal labelling it lazy is pretty godamn funny I must admit.
"Like, Prayer Works," science can test the claim
Actually no science cannot test that claim, stop lying."
Wow there really is no topic your ignorance doesn't encompass. Scientific double blind clinical trials conducted on the efficacy of intercessory prayer, and the objective results showed unequivocally that it had no discernible effect. Again anyone denying this is either too stupid to understand the research, or too biased and dishonest to accept it. I've linked it elsewhere, and you will just ignore it anyway, others can google the results for themselves.
""If you believe in god you are irrational." By any definition of irrationality, this is a true statement.
Completely disagree. "
Then you don't know what rational means, and I doubt I am alone here in not being remotely surprised.
1. I seriously doubt anyone was angered by it. It is the very same theist nonsense we are used to hearing all the time.
2. "No, because 1) Which god? 2) What tool/method are you using?" You are splitting hairs are arguing semantics. We have no evidence for any god or Gods. Nothing supernatural. The analogy fails.
3. "no evidence to prove god while they have no evidence to disprove god." Burden of proof does not rest on atheists. A lack of evidence is evidence of absence. That which is asserted without evidence can be rejected without evidence.
4. "The rejection of a belief system is a belief system." NO IT'S NOT. You tell me there are an even number of stars in the sky and I tell you that I do not believe you. What is it I believe? I have not asserted that the number is odd. I have not asserted that there are no stars. I have made no claim what so ever. I just do not believe your statement until you offer some sort of evidence. In fact, the number may very well be odd once we count them. After all you have a fifty - fifty chance of being correct. All I said was I do not believe your claim. That is the rational position until you offer some evidence.
5. "Atheists reject God claims generally based on their lack of evidence." How is that a belief? I do not believe there is a lack of evidence. Christians make claims and then we look for the facts and evidence and find nothing. We are not discussing beliefs but real events and observations in the real world.
6. "Not believing in a god is still a form of belief." Your wording is a bit off. "Believing that a god does not exist is a form of belief and must bear a burden of proof." I think this is what you mean. Rejecting an assertion that God exists is not in any way a form of belief. Not believing in god claims is a simple negation of a claim. No different than if you tell me the number of the stars in the sky are even. I reject your claim without evidence. It tells you nothing at all about what I do actually believe.
7. "1) Define the god they are searching for 2) Use the right tool or method to discover/eliminate that god. And I will add 3) Understand the claims that god/religion has claimed." You are obviously confused. It is not the job of science to define your god for you and then find it using the right tools. It is your job to define the job and justify the tool being used to support its existence. Only then can your claims be tested , The burden of proof is not on SCIENCE.
8. Go read all the articles posted about Catholic molestation recently posted and 2 others I posted about it not only being a Catholic problem but a Christian Evangelic problem as well. You are aware that the Muslims and the Islamic world are the number one up-loaders of child pornography?
9. Define God. It is not my job. Theism has not met their burden of proof. Your objections are superficial, lacking in serious content, vague, and unsupported by any real facts or evidence. Your childish objections are not worth the attention I have given them. Your next post will be more of the same stupid crap so instead of responding to it I will simply repeat myself once more....
* ATHEISM IS NOT A BELIEF SYSTEM. IT IS THE REJECTION OR ABSENCE OF GOD BELIEFS.
* IT IS NOT OUR JOB TO DEFINE, MEASURE, HUNT FOR, OR JUSTIFY YOUR GOD IN ANY WAY.
* THEISM HAS NOT MET ITS BURDEN OF PROOF.
* IF THERE WAS A CHOICE BETWEEN ENDING RAPE OR ENDING RELIGION, RELIGION IS THE GREATER EVIL AND I WOULD END IT. (SIMPLE OPINION - we can catch and prosecute rapists. Religion has been given a pass for 2000 years and still gets a pass today.)
IF ANY OF THIS IS CONFUSING - GO BACK AND READ THE POST AGAIN. I expect you will be true to form and just repeat yourself and your silly objections over and over and over. I'm not playing. Count your disagreements and be on your way.
@Searching for truth
That video was wrong on so many levels. The entire attempt was to categorize atheists.I will repeat again, atheism is the lack of belief in a god. Anything you or your video buddies tack on to that very simple definition is utter bollocks.
But I am willing to make a concession to reach a deal. I will accept a new definition of atheism as an "anti-religion cult" if you concede that Islam is "a cult of child rapists".
Otherwise, just F off, you follower of pedophiles and child rapists.
Dang, bruh. Why so angry?
Calm down champ, is it roid rage? Why are you so frustrated and angered by people not sharing your belief in archaic superstition?
What is the penalty for apostasy in Islam?
Is it ever moral for an adult to have sex with a nine year old child?
What evidence can you demonstrate that any deity exists?
Why do these questions anger you so much?
@Searching for truth
What you have done is incredibly stupid and offensive. You have been in this forum long enough to have it repeated many times exactly what the definition of atheism is. Yet you ignore the very simple definition and attempt to categorize us as something else.
You appear to be smart enough, you act a little gracious, but the structure of your words and intent in your posts are incredibly offensive. So until you apologize and retract your position I will categorize you in the same manner.
Muslims are child rapists.
"You appear to be smart enough, you act a little gracious,"
I'm not sure either of those is true based on what I have seen him post. Lets not forget he started his posting in here with some fairly offensive bigotry towards transgender people. Ironically the same time he was loudly demanding respect for his beliefs.
People deserve respect, as do their rights, no one can demand respect for a belief they hold, that's absurd. Many theists don't grasp this at all, and SFT's posts suggest he is one such theist. He demands atheists offer common ground for his beliefs, but rejects science and objective evidence out of hand, and of course refuses to answer salient questions about those beliefs and their provenance.
Happy to claim his beliefs offer objective morality, and claim atheists can't have objective morality, he then refuses to say if it is ever moral for an adult to have sex with a nine year old child, or to answer when asked what the penalty for apostasy is in Islam?
He's also happy to troll on here, and has been from the start, as of course he is doing here again.
I try to give the benefit of the doubt, to allow even someone this offensive an escape corridor. That is why I used the "appear" and "little". For a debate strategy, you must allow a path of escape. Even for child rapists.
Also remember this: Atheism is a non-prophet organization.
And I agree with what David said above. And here is a summation for you: ALL religion (including your precious Islam) are nothing more than a heinous boil on the ass of humanity needing to be lanced and eliminated.
He says we do not give a (precise) definition of god, I say we all know here about which god we are talking.
@ talynEarth03: :definition of god
I go back to my original post. This is complete crap. It is NEVER the job of a non-believer to define the god the theist is referring to. The simple fact of the matter is that we have no evidence what so ever for any definition s of God. NONE. The burden of proof is on the theist.