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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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Objective moral truths are universal in nature thats what makes then objective. it applies to everone from god.
Can you give an example?
Yes the command thou shall not kill and thou shall not steal.
So if someone was coming at me with a butcher knife and I killed him in the fight to keep him from killing me, what is that?
If I catch you trying to steal something of mine and break your hand, what is that?
rmfr
According to your own mythology, god ordered Jews to kill an entire nation of people. Remember you told us the morals are universal, objective, and apply to everyone. Clearly (according to your mythology) that is false.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxiAikEk2vU
Well I take my morals from basic christianity.You cite the hebrew scriptures, I adhere to the Judean Christian ethic. I base and live my life by christ sermon on the mount. Matthew chapter 5 through 7.Christ said that he came to fulfill not abolish the law. You don`t see jews today taking literally word from word of the HEBREW scriptures.Even reforemed or othodox jews don`t apply those commands carrying out there day to day lives.
You said these morals were universal, objective, and apply to everyone. Are you now telling us they didn't apply to the ancient Hebrews?
Well you have to remember that the ancient hebrews god the command itself from the one who is objective.from god.
So you say your deity's command to slaughter defenseless women and children is moral?
rmfr
No, I don't have to remember that; remember you told us these rules are universal. That means they apply to the past, present, and future; and that they apply to ancient Hebrews and god (the god you think is real). What is worse, is that any argument you now try to use to say the universal, objective, moral laws don't apply to god; contradicts your claim they are universal.
You have painted yourself into a corner. You should have never told us they are universal.
Dear Nyarlathotep gods way of giving out laws changes here in where I reside in the U.S.A. then 6,000 years ago in Israel. Today the civil laws have changed from the Europe of the 18th century.But you take murder, it still is not permissible or stealing say. that taboo on these particular laws haven`t changed but the punishment may have from locality to locality.. Like where I currently live here in new york the crime of murder in the first degree is no longer punishable by capital punishment. but is met with a possibility of life in prison for ones duration of his or her life. So murder hasn`t been changed the seriousness of it just the actual punishment has.The commands from GOD are still acknowleged.
That's odd. There are several members of this forum who were trained and paid to kill people by your goverment; myself included. Clearly it isn't objective or universal.
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on a side note: aren't you supposed to capitalize the word "god" if you are a Christian?
@ billy zarcone
Murder. So since I was in the US Navy and trained to kill the enemies of the United States, then why am I not sitting in prison for those people we killed in an action against the Soviet Union warship? According to you, murder is murder regardless, because you say it is U N I V E R S A L!
rmfr
You can't take morals from Christianity. There are no morals in the Christian faith.
It doesn't matter if it comes from the old or new testaments. It's the same god.
If morality is objective, then something that is right or wrong in the old testament is still right or wrong today. If it changed from right/wrong to wrong/right in the new testament, then morality is subjective.
@billy
If your morals come from your god, they are subjective.
Have to apply xenoview's razor to your claims.
The supernatural is not a falsifiable premise.
@ billy zarcone
"How about objective moral values, they do exist."
There is no such thing as objective moral values. ALL morality is subjective. If you even try to quote your God Herders' Guide to the Universe, Life, and Everything, then you are nothing but a bald-faced liar. Those supposed "objective" moral values you hold so dearly from your Bible are actually subjective edicts laid down by tyrannical totalitarian despot.
The only reason you may say a moral value is objective is actually a subjective moral value that a large majority of persons hold to be true. Thus our laws are created.
rmfr
@billy zarcone original post
All the evidence available to me points to no god. And not by a little, but by a lot. If it were a court trial deciding if "god" was real it would be an: "open and shut" case where those arguing against god's existence would very easily win. How do you deny the existance of all the other god ideas? What make you choose your particular god idea over the 1000's of others?
As I said the above the evidence available to me is O V E R W H E L M I N G. Here is a short list:
- Many many different god stories (Aka all god ideas are unfalsifiable so any number of god ideas can be created.. making it all nonsense)
- Evolution
- Age of the earth/universe (4.5 and 13.8 billion years)
- Vastness of the universe
- Religion's depiction of god making god extraordinary human like, and not timeless god like, typically based loosely on the age a particular god idea was invented. (Jealous, vengeful, angry, forgiving, etc) Historical record of "god" reads an awful lot like people writing them at the time they were written, not as a godly like text.)
- Religions are the opposite of what they preach, (greedy, hoarding, sexual deviancy, etc etc)
- Complete lack of any sort of real physical interaction, (even though many religions depict god getting real involved back before there was more reliable than human word of mouth recording processes) Prayer does nothing, being in a particular religious group does nothing, not to pick on jewish religious followers in particular, but just about anyone can describe their followers having a rough go of it for the last ~2000+ years.
-I could go on but I will stop here.
I do not hate anyone, I do strongly strongly dislike religions and religious leaders. It is a con, to control people and convince them to go to war in a far off country and fight bravely because people are tricked into believing in "heaven," (among many other uses for this con like lots and lots of money and power.)
I am anti theist, and would love to see the process of people shedding the various religious myths for things far more constructive. In today's world with the internet and sharing of knowledge available to so many so easily there is no excuse. And to most certainly stop brainwashing our children into believing nonsense. We humans need to develop our critical thinking skills, not our skill to lie and con people and be controlled by the few.
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▮ I am an atheist that always likes a good debate. ▮
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▮ Useful list on forum usage. A.R. Member since 2016. ▮
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@BZ...…
You posted ,"W ell for jesus birth the prophecy of the Prophet Micah states in chapter 5 v2 that he would be born in Bethlehem,"
You need to go back and read Micah 5:2 again ….. I'm afraid it does not say what you think it does.
Also you refer to the character Jesus as Jesus of Nazareth. …. why ?
Reading from the NEW AMERICAN STANDARD it says this BUT AS FOR YOU BETHLEHEM EPHRATHAH TOO LITTLE TO BE AMONG THE CLANS OF JUDAH FROM YOU ONE WILL GO FORTH FOR ME TO BE RULER IN ISRAEL. this without doubt alludes to Jesus Christ.
billy zarcone,
"Reading from the NEW AMERICAN STANDARD it says this BUT AS FOR YOU BETHLEHEM EPHRATHAH TOO LITTLE TO BE AMONG THE CLANS OF JUDAH FROM YOU ONE WILL GO FORTH FOR ME TO BE RULER IN ISRAEL. this without doubt alludes to Jesus Christ."
Sounds very evil to me.
As it says in Leviticus 18:8 (RSVCE) = "8 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s wife; it is your father’s nakedness."
1 Chronicles 2:24 (RSVCE) = "After the death of Hezron, Caleb went in to Eph′rathah, the wife of Hezron his father, and she bore him Ashhur, the father of Teko′a."
1 Chronicles 4:3-4 (TLB) = "The descendants of Etam: Jezreel, Ishma, Idbash, Hazzelelponi (his daughter), Penuel (the ancestor of Gedor), Ezer (the ancestor of Hushah), the son of Hur, the oldest son of Ephrathah, who was the father of Bethlehem."
Bethlehem was the town started by Hur.
And just what do you think "BETHLEHEM EPHRATHAH" actually refers to ?
" this without doubt alludes to Jesus Christ." ….. does it ?
Was he ever portrayed as a ruler in Israel....?
and what about the Nazareth reference …?
@Billy zarcone could you give a physical description of this Jesus fellow you mention? It might make it easier to find his body.
Sapporo,
"@Billy zarcone could you give a physical description of this Jesus fellow you mention? It might make it easier to find his body."
When you see a guy like the one depicted on page 7 of this link you might be looking at "Jesus".
http://www.thebricktestament.com/revelation/future_revealed_to_guy_on_ti...
9 pictures
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKGnXgH_CzE
This is how I see the reason for meaning
@billy
You can't hate something that is not real. Your god is a human construct.
When I was a Christian, I tried to prove god was real. I prayed to God, god didn't answer. I asked God to reveal itself, god remained hidden. Then I read the Bible cover to cover, that made me stop being a Christian.
Can you prove your god is real?
Objective claims requires objective evidence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HRaArFRMnE Here is my argument
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-bIHpZ6Fgo here are some reasons for objective values for GODS existence
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