Atheist Reasoning in Rejecting Christianity, and Subsequent Results

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Moxieman's picture
Atheist Reasoning in Rejecting Christianity, and Subsequent Results

Hello all,
I'm a new member and I had two questions for the atheists here:

1. Why don't you believe in the God of the Bible? / What questions do you have about this faith that makes it unrealistic to believe in?

2. What gets you up in the morning? What gives you meaning and purpose in life?

I look forward to hearing your responses. I'm sure you have some decent reasons, and perhaps even some exceptional ones! :)

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Sapporo's picture
Hello "Moxieman".

Hello "Moxieman".
1. The "God of the Bible" has not been adequately defined to me.
2. I enjoy living.

watchman's picture
@Moxieman ….

@Moxieman ….

Which god of the bible ?

Generally its the alarm clock.

Reason and purpose ?

That would be unmasking frauds and liars. (nothing personal..)

Bernhard's picture
Moxieman, originally I was

Moxieman, originally I was brought up in a Christian household. So I believed end God and Jesus and I was told over and over again by friends and family that it was real. Then I actually took time and read the Bible. That was enough to really confirm my suspicions that it couldn't be real. There are very horrible things written in the Bible. And lots of contradictions. Then I realized by the age of 15 approximately 35 years ago, that there were many other gods with many other holy books describing how they are the one true God. This got me to thinking that they all can't be right. So, which God is the one true God? If it is the one who wrote the first holy book then it was hundreds of years before the Bible. If it's the last book that was written then it was a different religion written 100 years after the Bible. My understanding and exploration of all the religions that I've discovered have one thing in common, they are most likely man-made. If people were to come to you now and say God spoke to me last night and I can communicate with him directly you would probably not believe him. So what makes this different if it was done 2,000 years ago? Why would someone believe that? If I use critical thinking there is no reason for me to accept any God unless given empirical evidence. I have had hours and hours of questioning and debate with Christians Mormons Catholics Muslims and Hindus because I'm very interested in religion. Yet none of them can supply me actual empirical evidence to prove that there is a God. So it all comes down to Faith. I don't believe faith it's something I could use to help guide my decision making throughout my life. What happens if I believe in the wrong God? I don't think faith is a good guide.
As for my purpose in life, I don't know if we actually have a purpose. Do ants have a purpose? Do fish have a purpose? Do any great apes have a purpose? So it is up to the individual to do what they want with their life I don't think it's a purpose but it might be something that gives you a reason to pursue. You may like music and want to get up in the morning and listen to music or make music. Or perhaps you like nature and want to go into a forest and take your dog for a walk. Or perhaps you want to travel so therefore you have to get out of bed to go to your job make enough money so that you can buy a ticket to fly to another country explore new things. As for me, I enjoy my job I'm a public servant. I love to read I enjoy writing and spending time with my family. I like to hike and bicycle and fish and shoot targets and go to the movies. What do you like to do? If you didn't believe in a god how would it change your life?
I hope I don't offend you. I really want to talk to you some more about this.

Tin-Man's picture


Howdy! Loved your post! Very nicely put. Welcome to the AR. Great having you with us. Come on in and make yourself at home. Plenty of good folks here, and we like having our fun. Hope to see you around more. Take care.

Moxieman's picture
Hey Bernhard! Thanks for your

Hey Bernhard! Thanks for your in depth response. I appreciate your thoughts and answers to my questions. And for the record, I've no reason whatsoever to be offended at your response; you answered my questions with honesty. Of course we have our differences in belief, but that's no reason for offense.
To start my response, I will say that I fully agree with you that horrible things are written in the Bible. At first glance, these can appear to describe a monstrous God. I'm not sure what passage you're talking about specifically, so it would be hard to explain any of that to you, assuming I would have a ready response. Could you give me an example of something horrible in the Bible to talk about?
Unfortunately, I can't agree with you that there are any contradictions in the Bible. I have read it multiple times, and what I've discovered is that based on interpretation, a passage that appears to contradict another at first, can in fact further the points displayed in various chapters. So I'd also ask that you give me a specific example of contradiction in the Bible.
The next point you made was superb. Finding a true religion among the hundreds surrounding us seems an insurmountable task. The overwhelming number of them and the fact that they all contradict each other would discredit any of them from holding truth. Nevertheless, that does not rule out the possibility for one of them to be correct; it simply makes it confusing to decide if one is true. Also, you are right, I probably would not believe a person claiming to have communication with God unless given ample evidence. And there is no difference between now and 2,000 years ago. The evidence would have to be overwhelmingly in favor of a God's interaction among humans. However, you make a mistake in saying empirical evidence is the only evidence to be given in favor of something. For example, there is historical knowledge: you cannot know Julius Caesar ever existed were it not for history. This is not observable, nor can it be tangibly felt. Yet to deny his existence would be regarded as ridiculous to most persons. There is memorial knowledge, and moral knowledge. Scientific knowledge can also be known, but only through probability. For example, with the leading evolutionary theory, the conclusion has been made that humans came from less advanced species. Whether or not this is true, it cannot be empirically proven, because it is impossible to return to the time when that may have occurred, and the process cannot be observed currently, as far as I know. So although scientific knowledge is probable, it is not empirical. So it comes down to faith. I believe that a faith built on reason at its foundation can be acceptable. I have sought to base my faith upon reason.
What do I like to do? I love to play piano, read books, and go hiking! Twice a week I play ultimate frisbee with friends.
It is hard for me to imagine what life would be like without a God in my life. This world is terribly messed up, and I'm honestly not sure I would see the point in sticking around. Life has its pleasures, but no one's life is without its grief. I'm glad that you continue and enjoy your life. Serving others is a wonderful way to live. I would like to talk with you more on this. If you like, we could move it to a private conversation.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Moxieman

@ Moxieman

For example, there is historical knowledge: you cannot know Julius Caesar ever existed were it not for history. This is not observable, nor can it be tangibly felt. Yet to deny his existence would be regarded as ridiculous to most persons.

Terrible analogy for history to work there has to be evidence to back up the legends. In the case of Caesar there are coins,(tangible) writings,(corroboration) monuments (tangible), inscriptions (tangible) a host of data and evidence. I have read the apologist argument you seem to be alluding to and it is complete nonsense. Anyone who quotes that as an argument immediately casts anything else they have to say in doubt. Same thing as the Alexander of Macedonia argument (debunked) Plato argument(debunked) Socrates argument (debunked) Troy argument (debunked)

History IS tangible. Many (in the early to mid 20th Century) thought that Pilate was a character in a story with little but a couple of references by a known liar to back up the biblical account..but then, thanks to archeology, we have tangible evidence as his post as Prefect/Procurator in Judea ...all of a sudden from myth to reality. That is how History works.

But all it proves that Pilate was Prefect of Judea. Nothing else. All the rest is still just stories until real, contemporary, hard, empirical evidence can be uncovered. The more fanciful the story, the less likely is it to be evidenced.

I am glad you enjoy your life, with or without a god or gods in it. I hope by reading the answers here you realise that a god or gods are just not necessary for everyone to have a joyful fulfilling existence.

gupsphoo's picture


1. I can't force myself to believe in something ridiculous.

2. To achieve goals I set for myself and be happy.

CyberLN's picture
Hi Moxieman.

Hi Moxieman.

“1. Why don't you believe in the God of the Bible?”

For the same reason I don’t believe in any other gods.

“What questions do you have about this faith that makes it unrealistic to believe in?”

I haven’t any questions about that faith.

“2. What gets you up in the morning?”

The smell of coffee - ambrosia!

“What gives you meaning and purpose in life?”

I don’t know that I have either meaning or purpose. I like being alive. I guess I’d say (if there is one) that the meaning of life is living.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
1. Why don't you believe in

1. Why don't you believe in the God of the Bible? / What questions do you have about this faith that makes it unrealistic to believe in?

I lack belief in any of the gods mentioned in the bible. There are so many in there I guess I can't believe in one without believing in all of them.
I all seriousness..I have studied the bible and its origins. Once you do that you cannot believe that it is the gateway to any god at all.

2. What gets you up in the morning? What gives you meaning and purpose in life?

My cat normally gets me up about first light, we share breakfast and garden together. I love life and don't worry about 'meaning' Life itself is meaning.

Cognostic's picture
1. The god of the bible is an

1. The god of the bible is an exercise in contradiction. Go through the pages and write down all the attributes of your god and you will immediately see why your god is not even possible. God is all Just and all merciful. Impossibility. Mercy is the suspension of Justice. Your God of the bible is a murdering butchering son of a bitch and there is no reason any moral being on the planet would follow him.

2. Living my life gets me up in the morning. I am on vacation now. Each day is a new adventure. I just tried crocodile meat an beetle -nut for the first time. I took a ride on a boat through a mangrove forest. I visited the city of Ankor. I was just propositioned by a very cute girl who wants me to take her to Angeles city with me and be my company for a couple of days. What in the hell is not to get up for in the morning. Life is great!

Tin-Man's picture
(Before reading any other

(Before reading any other replies...)

Okay, Moxieman, on the off-chance you are actually being sincere with your inquiries (I'm skeptical, by the way.), I'll take a crack at your questions. Be advised, however, you may not like the results/feedback you get on here if you turn out to be another typical "drive-by". Just sayin'.....

Re: "1. Why don't you believe in the God of the Bible? / What questions do you have about this faith that makes it unrealistic to believe in?"

For starters, I have zero questions about the faith. I grew up in it and know about it all too well. No need for questions. And I do not believe in the God of the bible because my mind refuses to accept the absolute absurdity of the whole thing. Simply put, for a book that was supposedly written under the guidance of an "all-powerful" and "all-knowing" entity, there are just waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many ridiculous contradictions and inconsistencies in its "teachings" to be taken seriously. Pretty simple and straightforward. So, quid pro quo: Why do YOU not believe in Allah, or Shiva, or Odin, or Ganesha, or Zeus, or any of the other thousands of gods that have been invented by Man over the centuries?

Re: "2. What gets you up in the morning? What gives you meaning and purpose in life?"

Well, usually my cat (Zeus) walking across my full bladder is the first thing that wakes me up. But if you are asking what motivates me to get out of bed each and every day, then the answer is because I happen to enjoy life. And I want to take advantage of every moment I can to be happy and make my wife happy and to help others whenever I get the chance to do so. Is there something else I should be doing??? Did I miss something? We only get one shot, dude. Best to make the most of it while you can.

Moxieman's picture
Thanks for responding, Tin

Thanks for responding, Tin-Man. Rather interesting name, by the way.
You've probably heard this before, but I don't believe in there being contradictions in the Bible. Some points are very confusing, yes, but I cannot agree that there are contradictions. Let me know of a specific example that you're thinking of. In answer to your question, I don't believe in the manmade gods created over the centuries, because I believe I've found the God who does not contradict himself, and that there is sufficient evidence to conclude that the Christian God was not made up by man.
I'm glad you enjoy life. You seem to be living it pretty well.

Tin-Man's picture


Well, alrighty. You actually stayed around to interact a bit. Excellent... *grin*... Glad to have you with us. Oh, by the way, the Tin-Man moniker is one that has been with me for many (most) years of my life. It is a nickname I hold dear in my heart... (pun intended. lol).

Re: "I don't believe in there being contradictions in the Bible. Some points are very confusing, yes, but I cannot agree that there are contradictions."

You asked me to let you know of a specific example of a contradiction in regards to the bible. Well, no need for me to go digging for a few. You just provided a really good one for me. Actually, I would say it is quite possibly THE contradiction to out do all the others. Now, please correct me if I am wrong, but from what I was taught as a child and all the way up into adulthood, the Holy Bible was inspired/created/dictated/overseen by an All-powerful, All-knowing, PERFECT god. In other words, the same god that was supposedly able to create the entire universe, our little planet, and everything on it in less than seven days. The same god that (from how I was taught) knows EVERYTHING. Past, present, future. Knows every single thought that every single person that has ever existed has had, has, and will ever have. The same god that can DO ANYTHING..... AN-Y-THING.... And, supposedly, the Holy Bible is this god's MOST IMPORTANT MESSAGE for Mankind, right? Yet, the best this PERFECT god can do to deliver this incredibly vital message to his precious children is to write a book? And not just any book, but a book (by your own statement) that is "very confusing." A book that has been re-written, mistranslated, and misinterpreted over a period of hundreds of years such that it has spawned thousands of different sects of belief, many of which have waged bloody and costly wars with each other in an attempt to prove which of them is the "true believers"...... of that.... book. But there are no contradictions in it?.... Ummmmm..... Oooooo-kaaaaaaaay...... *shrugging shoulders*....

Re: "I don't believe in the manmade gods created over the centuries, because I believe I've found the God who does not contradict himself..."

What makes your god any more special than all the others? No doubt those who believed in their respective gods felt the same as you do about your god. What is the difference? Matter of fact, my wife happens to be Pagan. And I can think of several Pagan gods that I would actually have much more respect toward than I would toward the god of the bible if they were actually real. Keep in mind, even if they were real, I would never worship any of them. Not my style. And in many cases, many of the Pagan gods would actually respect ME for that. (But I digress...) Anyway, point is, it has been shown time and time again how the bible and the god(s) in the bible are based on a mix of many different ancient religions that were around long before Christianity ever entered the picture. So how, exactly, is the god in the bible any different from all the other gods?

algebe's picture

I studied Greco-Roman, Norse, Japanese, and Judaeo-Christian mythology. They can't all be right, and since none of them can point to evidence of any intervention in the world by their deities, I have concluded that they're all wrong. That view is further strengthened by the behavior of leaders and followers of historical and modern religions. For example, how could a loving god remain silent while children are raped in his house and in his name? What kind of god would want its followers to fly planes into buildings?

Your second question is little bit insulting. Do you think that purpose and meaning in life are limited to people who believe in fairy tales? I get up in every morning at 5am because I have a very difficult profession that I do better than almost anyone else in the world, and because I'm determined to do better. I take meaning from the fact that my family, my clients, and society still need me, even though I'm way past retirement age. I'm driven by curiosity, ambition, responsibility, wonder, competitiveness.

One thing that doesn't drive me is a childish fantasy about rewards in a non-existent after-life. I live here and now.

Moxieman's picture
Hello Algebe. I happen to

Hello Algebe. I happen to believe that the Christian God sending his son into the world counts as intervention in the world...I'm not sure what you mean by that exactly, so please elaborate.
Your second point illuminates a very embarrassing truth in regards to Christianity - our horrible moral failings. People bearing the name of Jesus and raping children is completely unacceptable and never should have happened. (I'm not sure what you're referring to with flying planes into buildings - if you're talking of 9/11, that was an attack by Muslims. But maybe there's another time in which that happened.) I cannot call those persons true followers of Christ, however, as they are an embarrassment to his name. In addition though, you seem to have overlooked the incredible work that Christians have done over the past centuries. For example, the very first hospitals and medical facilities in many areas were introduced by Christians, and saved uncountable lives. Christian missionaries have also traveled far and wide and brought writing and technological advances to numerous countries and islands all over the world. These advancements ought not to be ignored, as they speak to what believing in Christ has led people to bettering the world around them.
I'm sorry that you find my second question somewhat insulting. I do not think that purpose and meaning would necessarily be limited to people believing in various religions; I do think it would be harder to find though. From a philosophical standpoint, being needed by someone should not strictly give a person purpose. Why do you want to be desired? Why benefit society? Why not be a useless bum in society?
I will ignore your last comment, as it screamed out your personal conclusion in regards to religion. I can't change that yet (Or probably ever).

algebe's picture
@Moxieman: I happen to

@Moxieman: I happen to believe that the Christian God sending his son into the world counts as intervention in the world.

Prove it. Lots of religions have stories about gods conceiving babies with mortals. What makes yours special other than the fact that you want to believe it? There's no evidence for the Jesus story. It isn't even original or unique.

I mentioned 9/11 because I see no difference between Christianity and Islam. They're both profoundly violent and harmful death cults. And don't think that Islam is somehow worse than Christianity because of their recent depredations. Christianity has the most bloodstained history of any existing religion, from the slaughter of the Cathars and the massacre of Magdeburg to the horrors of Rwanda. The beast of Christianity has been caged in most countries, but it's still dangerous.

When did the god of the Old Testament or the Jesus of the New Testament ever once say "don't rape children"? "Where's the commandment against slavery?

Christian hospitals? The first Christian "healers" were monks and priests. They applied dung poultices to wounds and waved saints' bones over the sick, while burning the 'witches' (wise women, herbalists) who had real knowledge of traditional healing. I guess with that history, it's only fair that churches pour some of the ill-gotten gains gathered from the poor and misguided and the riches they amass under the shelter of their tax-exempt status into hospitals. The question is why did it take them so long to start putting some good back into the world?

Your missionaries brought European diseases to native populations, destroyed local culture and history, and facilitated slavery. And they're still bloody doing it. An American Baptist missionary is likely to be charged with genocide in Brazil.

From a philosophical standpoint, being needed by someone should not strictly give a person purpose.

Isn't that the whole foundation of your belief system? That god or Jesus needs you to fulfill some destiny or purpose in the world? Without that mission would you be a "useless bum in society"? I live by the philosophy of repaying forwards. People helped me in the past, so I repay them by helping others. Get in touch with your inner great ape. We're social animals with deep instincts that make us want to be useful to our communities.

Your idea that atheists can have no purpose in life is an insult, albeit based on ignorance. The other insult that theists frequently bring to this forum is that atheists can't possibly have any morals because we have no lawgiver in the sky.

Sky Pilot's picture


Since I come from a long line of Ammonite bastards it doesn't do me any good to believe in the biblical God Yahweh, the God of the Hebrews and the God of the armies. According to the fairy tale I can never join his congregation.

There are thousands of Gods, each with his own specific name and attributes. There are several Gods in the Bible so please use the specific name instead of the generic title "God". They are all different.

Hitch's picture

You probably won't like my replies but here you go.
1. I am not stupid enough to believe in fairy tales. I live in the real world.

2. You can't sleep forever, at some point in the morning you just wake up (sarcasm, ignore). As for purpose, I make my own in life. We get only one shot at life, I intend to make the best of it. I don't indulge in wishful thinking about a perfect afterlife.

arakish's picture
@ Moxieman

@ Moxieman

1-A. Why don't you believe in the God of the Bible?

As Isaac Asimov said (paraphrased): “When properly read, the Bible is the greatest tool for atheism.”

1-B. What questions do you have about this faith that makes it unrealistic to believe in?

Only one, why do you believe in something that cannot be proven?

2-A. What gets you up in the morning?

Usually the alarm to take my pain medications.

2-B. What gives you meaning and purpose in life?

Every day I am still alive gives Honor to the lives of my wife and twin daughters.


ronin renezage's picture
One has consciousness and

One has consciousness and maturity ,,,,to understand what's right and wrong in life ,,,,the people who needs some religious fancy piece of literature ,,,,,,to tell them what to do and what not,,,,are immature nerds,,,,,,,if you believe in existence of god ,,,,you. must find about him as far and deep you could ,,,,without going into existing religious textbooks,,,,which ate sample literature ,,,,
In life ,,,one can choose to believe in both practical and religious things ,,,,,,but what affects ones life more is science behind it,...Something which doesn't give a shit about science ,,,,is not valid ,,,,and purely an imagination for entertainment,,,,,,,, science is knowledge ,power ,enlightenment,

Kataclismic's picture
A timeless creator god would

A timeless creator god would create a timeless message and...

there be dragons in the bible.

Calilasseia's picture
This promises to be

This promises to be entertaining ...

Hello all,
I'm a new member and I had two questions for the atheists here:

That should be "have". Perfect, not pluperfect, tense.

1. Why don't you believe in the God of the Bible? / What questions do you have about this faith that makes it unrealistic to believe in?

If you're not ready for this roller coaster ride, then be warned from the start, it will be a rapidly undulating one.

First of all, entities that genuinely exist have a habit of being observable and testable. The asserted magic entities of various mythologies manifestly fail on both counts, and can be discarded with the same lack of effort that was exerted by the fabricators thereof. Quite simply, your mythology is no different from any of the others humans have fabricated over the ages in this respect, and as a corollary, warrants no special treatment. The only reason I and a number of others here even bother acknowledging its existence, let alone dealing with its assertions in detail, is because there are a lot of supernaturalists in existence, who not only think that adherence to said mythology bestows upon them some sort of "right" to tell us how to run our lives, coerce us into adherence to said mythology whether we want this or not, and skew the business of policy making on the basis of said adherence, frequently with malign consequences, but also have a nasty habit of corrupting and perverting everything from education through to the rules of discourse themselves, in order to pursue hegemony for their mythology, or more properly, their particular interpretation thereof. Which of course is another issue with mythologies, namely that they have a habit of being littered with internal contradictions, obfuscatory language, and present within their texts assertions that have been demonstrated to be plain, flat, wrong some time ago. The idea that as body of text as demonstrably unreliable as a mythology, deserves to be given "sacred" status, is one that I and numerous others here regard as a bad joke.

Indeed, by now, you should have inferred from the above, that it's not merely your choice of mythology and asserted magic entity that is subject to the above suspicion, but all of them. This is an elementary principle that you should master quickly, in order to avoid future embarrassment here and elsewhere. Frequently, critiques that are aimed at your choice of mythology, and your choice of magic entity, are critiques that are applied to all of them. I'll say more on the matter of whether or not your 'choice' of mythology was actually a genuine choice later, but for now, I'll leave that aside. Instead, I'll move quickly to the fact that the mythology you favour here, is manifestly part of a family of mythologies with a common heritage, and as a corollary, issues affecting the reliability of your particular choice from that family have a habit of being applicable to other members of that family.

So, do not under any circumstances regard this, or any other critique, of your choice of mythology as constituting some sort of personal attack, because it isn't - another mistake that I observe supernaturalists making frequently when such questions arise, is failure to distinguish between persons and ideas. You are not your ideas, not least because you can change your mind with respect to the ideas you regard as worth preserving. That's a central concept emanating from the proper rules of discourse - namely, that ideas are disposable entities. When data exists telling us to dispose of an idea, the proper course of action is to listen to the data, and duly discard whatever has been deemed discardable. One of the reasons science has been so successful, is that its practitioners learned this lesson quickly, and applied said lesson robustly.

I stated above that I would consider the matter of whether your choice was genuinely an unconstrained choice on your part. This matter is open to question for two reasons, first being that if one surveys the entire planet, the probablility is extremely low, that a given supernaturalist's choice of mythology to adhere to, is a choice other than the one enjoying local cultural hegemony. The probability of finding an Orthodox Jew living in Mecca is pretty much zero, for example. The second reason, of course, is the extent to which past adherents of mythology have been singularly ruthless in suppressing alternative choices, wherever they were able to, and present day adherents are prepared to exert effort aimed at adding to the number of adherents. A choice in this matter isn't a genuine free choice, if an individual is subject to sustained and vigorous coercion to conform, especially if the message includes implied or explicitly presented threats of unpleasant consequences, arising from failure to conform. Indeed, one big problem with the Abrahamic religions, is the manner in which, within those religions, failure to conform became regarded as a criminal form of deviance to be extirpated ruthlessly, and said ruthless extirpation became standard practice. This phenomenon is, of course, regarded by many here, as a direct consequence of the inability of mythology based doctrines to withstand scrutiny on their own merits, the moment the inquiry becomes sufficiently forensic and penetrating, and the corollary need to protect those mythology based doctrines from proper examination of the intrinsic worth of their ideas. Again, another observable applicable here, is that the the most extreme versions of mythological adherence tend to be the most ready to resort to violent reaction toward any opposition, though even purportedly "moderate" versions of mythological adherence involve sinister and underhand methods of enforcing conformity, ready to be deployed the moment the need is deemed to be required.

So, that covers some of the universal reasons why I treat the assertions of your choice of mythology with suspicion - because I've learned that this is a wise course of action to take wth any mythology, particularly any mythology with ruthlessly dedicated, vocal, politically active and well-financed stormtroopers at its disposal. This applies not just to religions, I hasten to add, but to any political ideology that is couched in religious terms, namely the presentation of unsupported assertions treated as purportedly constituting "axioms" about the world. The malign consequences of these have also become a part of the pedagogical output of history.

Now, in the case of your choice of mythology, I have to tell you some extremely bad news here. One of the reasons I'm particularly repelled thereby, is because I have encountered, particularly over the past decade, adherents thereof that have been, quite simply, among the worst advertisements for your choice of mythology that could have been chosen for the purpose. Creationists in particular have done a great deal to render your choice of mythology not merely absurd from my standpoint, but outright venomous. The willingness of these people to engage in discoursive duplicity on a grand scale, in order to push their frankly infantile and risible masturbation fantasy of a doctrine, would make a good few actual convicted and imprisoned felons blanch. This is the level of mendacity I and others encountering this sector of the mythology fanbase have had to deal with, and frankly, I want nothing to do with a mythology that elicits this brand of behaviour. So, if you happen to be a part of that sector, be warned in advance that knowledge of this will jaundice my view of you markedly right from the start, as a result of the above-cited experience, and you will have a moumental task ahead of you rectifying that damage.

2. What gets you up in the morning? What gives you meaning and purpose in life?

The preservation of proper discourse. See above.

Tin-Man's picture


Daaaamn! Cutting loose with the Big Guns! Hell yeah!... *clapping*.....

Moxieman's picture
Oof. That was an intense wall

Oof. That was an intense wall of text. Although I read all that, I'm afraid I have neither the time, nor the attention span to write out an in depth response, so for that I am sorry.
The primary thing I would say to you is this: I'm sorry for the actions of the 'Christian' influences in your life, and for any damage they caused you. I don't even know you, so I can't hope to rectify the evil they've done to you. But I am sorry. Not every Christian is like that.

Calilasseia's picture
You may find it instructive

You may find it instructive to make the attempt. As I found it instructive to spend time learning what scientists actually stated in their written work, as opposed to the reportage on this matter by certain pedlars of apologetics.

Sheldon's picture


Q 1. Why don't you believe in the God of the Bible? / What questions do you have about this faith that makes it unrealistic to believe in?

A 1. Same as all other deities and all claims beliefs and assertions, there isn't any objective evidence.

Q 2. What gets you up in the morning? What gives you meaning and purpose in life?

A 2. My alarm on my phone gets me up in the morning. I give my life meaning and prpose, and the people that I care about, and who care about me.

dogalmighty's picture
1. Why don't you believe in

1. Why don't you believe in the God of the Bible? / What questions do you have about this faith that makes it unrealistic to believe in?

Personally, because supernatural things do not exist in our present reality.

2. What gets you up in the morning? What gives you meaning and purpose in life?

My dog usually gets me up in the am. Meaning and wife, people I know.

LogicFTW's picture
@OP by Moxieman

@OP by Moxieman

1) Huge amounts of evidence that man made god, very little evidence that god made man. I have literally 1000's of unresolved questions that go unanswered, ("god did it because magic" is NOT an answer.)
2) The sun does, I try not to rely on alarms and I let the sun wake me up instead, (Yes I tend to get up a bit after dawn most mornings.) Learning and creating gives me purpose in life.

David Killens's picture
"1. Why don't you believe in

"1. Why don't you believe in the God of the Bible? / What questions do you have about this faith that makes it unrealistic to believe in?"

I do not believe in the god of the bible because the bible and the god are both invented stories. Faith is not necessarily dependent on the bible. I find it a huge exaggerated story to believe in. An all powerful being created and runs this entire universe? Walking on water, returning from the dead? really?

"2. What gets you up in the morning? What gives you meaning and purpose in life?"

My dog makes it a habit to jump up and down on my face at 5:00 AM. And that little critter also give me joy in life. There is no god mandated "purpose" or "meaning".

Bob Lawson's picture
Hi Moximan, I too am new to

Hi Moximan, I too am new to this forum, and this is my first entry.

Why don't I believe in the biblical God? I'd probably have to write pages to give you a complete answer, but in general I stopped believing because no matter how hard I searched I found nothing compelling. Also, God never answered my prayers, at least not in a forthright manner. What did I pray for? I prayed that I be shown the path to belief. I wanted to believe so badly and when I turned to the Bible (the Old Testament) a benevolent god was too often completely absent while Dawkin's god so frequently raised his ugly head (though The God Delusion was still decades in the future). Then one day, when I was sixteen, I had an experience that made me realize my Belief in God had vanished. It was not a conscious decision on my part, but rather simple realization that I'd come to see God as no different than the gods of antiquity.

What makes faith in the Bible unrealistic to my mind? Truthfully, almost everything. Take any biblical question or story that causes you to ask questions and add that to the list.

What gets me up in the morning? One topic at a time, please. :)

PS. Pleased to make your acquaintance.


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