An Atheists viewpoint: The Mark of The Beast (666) & RFID Microchips

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Chuck Graham's picture
An Atheists viewpoint: The Mark of The Beast (666) & RFID Microchips

Curious to hear what y'all think about the future pointing towards a cashless society, scannable RFID microchips inserted in the hand or forehead to make buying and selling easier for society, and this peculiar chapter in the Bible, Revelation chapter 13 Revelation 13:16-17 King James Version (KJV)16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Is it safe to say that this scripture does not reference a cashless society in the form of a human implantable RFID chip? I'm not necessarily against the whole idea of implantable RFID microchips inserted in my hand to make the economy more efficient. It sure would streamline the whole healthcare, transportation, and food industry and could possibly end drug wars and stop other illegal and harmful industries. What are y'alls thoughts on this one?

Side note: I found this video that has a more rational and literal outtake on the whole idea of a cash society being a legitimate possibility in the near future with all the new advances in RFID technology, BITCOIN and Blockchain, etc. Here is the video link to copy and paste in the URL bit.ly/JesusAndTheMarkOfTheBeast

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LogicFTW's picture
Why get an rfid implant with

Why get an rfid implant with all its issues instead of just a smart phone in your pocket?

Chuck Graham's picture
Smart phones seem to be

Smart phones seem to be jumping on the band waggon towards a cahsless society. RFID chips might make more practical sense and most likely end up being a more affordable alternative for 3rd world countries that are looking to develope into more western looking societies. If one day there happened to be a single global cashless currency then 3rd world nations could some how tap into more resources, possibly ending world poverty and provide cheap global healthcare. Here in the Philippines $4.00 USD a day is the normal wage.. I think smart phones are moving in the right direction though.

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LogicFTW's picture
What do you mean when you say

What do you mean when you say cashless society? One that does not use currency based on printed paper or stamped metal?

If yes, then agreed, we are well on our way on that one, I suspect cash will drop below 10% of all transactions in first world countries within a decade, I would even include Manila, Quezon City and Cebu on that list. (Cities I have personally visited in the Philippines.)

RFID is already an outdated technology for this use case, sure, they are still cheaper than your typical 1000 dollar smartphone that the rich people buy, even after considering cost of installation of said rfid chip. But smart phones represent a great value just beyond the ability to communicate like an rfid chip can.

This does not even get into the issue of general societal resistance to being implanted with a tracking device.

Finally, to add an rfid chip to a flip phone even, would cost the manufacturer maybe 2-3 bucks a phone, probably far less. Definitely less then the cost of building and implanting an rfid chip that can be implanted.

Chuck Graham's picture
Correct. Paperless. Maybe

Correct. Paperless/Electronic somehow tied into the internet, most likely quantum computers would need to be involved to process all the information. Maybe you're right though with RFID chips and how they are outdated. I'm sure they will come out with something cheaper and more effective than RFID chips in the future. Transactions have made some considerable advancements over the past few 100 years from the simple metal coin, to paper money, to RFID credit cards, Bitcoin and maybe eventually an implantable divice to track and monitor all human functions like buying, selling, healthcare, transportation, goverment aid/benefits, etc. I'm sure China is all over this idea ;) China would love to track everyone. I think if there were enough incentives involved in getting an implantable chip like free healthcare, free education, government aid, maybe $50,000 start up credits jk idk haha most people would go for it. People can lose flip phones though so an implantable chip would be more safe for the elderly, children and disabled especially if there was a medical emergency. Processing information during emergencies for individuals that are unconscious could be life saving if they have an implanted chip for hospital nurses to scan.

Nyarlathotep's picture
For what it is worth, paper

For what it is worth, paper money (or something more or less like paper, lots of materials have been used) has been around for thousands of years.

Chuck Graham's picture
True money has been around

True money has been around for a long time. It sure would be nice though if money didn't exist haha

Sheldon's picture
I see no connection between

I see no connection between that biblical text and your prediction for implants whatsoever, not even a tenuous connection.

To be honest I don't think your prediction makes much sense anyway, we already have technology that is easier than getting things implanted surgically. The future for cash transactions will be using your phone I suspect, because it already combines so many diverse uses.

The superstitious claims are quite frankly ludicrous though.

Sheldon's picture
@Chuck Graham

@Chuck Graham

I see no connection between that biblical text and your prediction for implants whatsoever, not even a tenuous connection.

To be honest I don't think your prediction makes much sense anyway, we already have technology that is easier than getting things implanted surgically. The future for cash transactions will more and more be using your phone I suspect, because it already combines so many diverse uses, and technology is widely available and already working.

The superstitious claims are quite frankly ludicrous though.

Chuck Graham's picture
I'm curious to hear your

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on what the biblical text is actually saying?

Nyarlathotep's picture
I always thought it was a

I always thought it was a veiled stab at the Romans; a way to write something critical of the political structure, in a time when freedom of the press didn't exist.

Chuck Graham's picture
From what I remember, the

From what I remember, the early historic Christians didn't work for money or food so their lifestyle was a complete rejection towards the Roman economy. More or less the early followers of Jesus picked up leftover scraps of vegetables and fruit in the fields, relied on the generosity of others, trusted that God would feed and clothe them. It seems that the main focus of the early Christians was to reject greed as the ultimate source of evil, working for money basically and to start a new government where people worked for free. Revelation 13 probably coincides with the beliefs of the early Christians that the love of money is the root or the source of all evil and that all people will eventually have to make a final choice between loving God or loving money. In Revelation it says that anyone who takes the mark on their hand to buy and sell things will receive the fullest uncapped outpouring of Gods wrath.

David Killens's picture
Approximately 70% of the

Approximately 70% of the world's population do not own cell phones.

At one time I believed that bluetooth would prevail, but new technologies overcame that one. And if an RFID chip is plausable, why not face recognition software being used for ID? The individual does not require any identification or cell phone, but their bank, border crossings, and other situations could be applied. In fact, I would not be surprised to see police officers take a quick photo from their cell phones to identify anyone. They just snap a picture and 30 seconds later are informed if the suspect has a criminal record or warrant.

Technology never stops moving forward, and many technological applications are designed to make like more convenient and time-saving. Implanting an RFID chip is inconvenient, while the example I provided illustrates that other technologies can perform the same ask with a lot less inconvenience and loss of personal time.

And no, I do not see a connection between RFID chips and biblical prophecies that are almost always vague.

LogicFTW's picture
@David Killens,

@David Killens,

A quick google search suggests ~70% of the world population (over 5 billion) have a "mobile device" another article suggest 67% have a cell phone.

I did not dive to deep into the numbers or research, but this is inline with what I have heard before. 70% is a lot considering large portions of the population are under the age of 12 or over the age of 65. I would guess adults between age of 18 and 65 the % is closer to 85% Maybe even 90%

The tech you speak of picture taking already mostly exists. Facebook is able to identify many of it's users simply via a picture, but due to privacy issues and user resistance they do not employ this tool publicly. Also It does not take 30 seconds, it is as fast as your typical google search, milliseconds, at least before accounting for latency/connection to the server. It would take less then a second on even a 3g connection (all the heavy lifting is done server side.)

David Killens's picture
@ LogicFTW

@ LogicFTW

I stand corrected, I got the numbers reversed and you are correct, over 70% own a cell phone.

But my point is that the global reach of such devices is not universal, and there will be parts of the world where such technology isn't present. That is still over two billion people.

The technology exists today where we could use facial recognition for identification by anyone with access to records. That could be the CIA, local cops, and if granted, the checkout line at your local grocery store. IMO the biggest hurdle is privacy concerns.

Many years ago my friend disappeared for a weekend, and when I saw him Monday morning, he looked like shit. I asked why, and he informed me that he had just bought an Apple 2, and had spent the entire weekend doing a complete inventory of his apartment for insurance purposes. I had a realization that he had allowed himself to become a slave to a machine, which to me is ass-backwards. My position has always been that machines serve people, and when we recognize that we are changing our schedules or behavior to suit a machine, it's time to turn the machine off.

That is why I will never have an RFID chip implanted into my body.

LogicFTW's picture
@David Killens

@David Killens

That is still over two billion people.

Agreed. And all too often, the people without any sort of cellphone/smartphone are the ones that could most benefit from it.

That could be the CIA, local cops, and if granted, the checkout line at your local grocery store. IMO the biggest hurdle is privacy concerns.

Yep, and it is a weird hurdle. Because the "privacy" is already pretty much gone if they, or anyone they spend a lot of time with makes much use of social media. Have a smartphone, etc. Best hope of privacy is to simply blend in with the billions of other people.

My position has always been that machines serve people, and when we recognize that we are changing our schedules or behavior to suit a machine, it's time to turn the machine off.

And now a days the machines and internet are on 24/7. Just about everyone I know, my self included, spends at least 3-4 hours a day in front of a screen/computer/machine. Quite often this is on top of doing the same for work.

That is why I will never have an RFID chip implanted into my body.

I am not to worried about it for privacy reasons, because as I said above, any thoughts of privacy in this internet connected age is gone. Even if I completely unplugged, (I would be out of work in the process) I still would not have privacy, all the people I spend any signficant amount of time with would have to completely unplug too. Basically I would have to be a hermit in some remote cabin somewhere. And like it has been mentioned facial recognition is also a thing with increasing wide spread use.

I would not do implantable RFID because I already have a better solution, the rfid in my phone and/or watch. Its included pretty much for "free," baked into the devices. No need for "implantation." Plus an rfid on a smartphone is a far more elegant solution because it also multiple forms of input and output. And has included modems on the same hardware to connect to the internet. Finally I could just set aside or power down my phone when I wanted to. Not an option for an implant.

My point to the thread is, I don't think implanted RFID will become a thing. Superior tech solutions are already here and increasingly being widely used. That do not have the Orwellian Nineteen Eighty-Four scary vibes to it. Cell phones are very well accepted by society already, even if many people are aware of the privacy loss and are far more capable then a simple rfid tag implant.

Additionally modern smartphones have robust security, anti theft, and accidental loss tools that continue to improve rapidly. Perhaps 90 year old grandpa with severe dementia might be well served to have a backup rfid chip implant incase they wander off somewhere they are not supposed to be, but for the rest of us, a smart phone, or at the very least a credit card size rfid chip (for those without access to smartphones) that lives in the wallet is more than sufficient and seems like a superior solution in just about every way.

Whitefire13's picture
Ahhh the mark of the beast.

Ahhh the mark of the beast. When Social Insurance Numbers came out, it was the Mark. When stores started putting bar codes on merchandise it was the mark ... Like any book or show it’s all a matter of interpretation.
The Simpsons cartoon series has more accurate prophecy and fulfillment then the bible.
666 can be interpreted as us humans. We are Carbon based, hmmm maybe this is God’s wisdom in describing the carbon molecule?!?!?

Anyhoo I’m more than happy to carry around my phone to be tracked, recorded, listened to...

Nyarlathotep's picture
The Seventh-day Adventist

The Seventh-day Adventist teach that the mark of the beast is a reference to being forced to go to church on Sunday, instead of Saturday (or something like that, they're weird).

Chuck Graham's picture
These are the areas of

These are the areas of greatest application of RFID below. I still think that implanting a chip is more likely and could be a more aggressive approach of human control that countries like China and Russia might inforce. RFID implants are pretty common in the livestock industry so if Governments just see us as animals why not go to the next step and implant chips on the whole human race? Would you let someone implant a chip in your hand if it meant that you could no longer travel, pay bills, get hospital treatment, buy things online, grocery shop etc unless you had the chip implanted?

Payments in means of transport: public transports and tolls

In order to eliminate the delays on road tolls, Electronic Tolls Collection (ETC) collects tolls electronically. Cars don’t need to stop when they pass through tolls, the payment is automatic if the car is enrolled in the program and if it’s not, the system sends an event which trigger an action like don’t let the car pass or it takes a photo.

If you don’t drive, when you are travelling around the city you also use RFID in public transport, because of the entrance payment and the exit control can be done thanks to RFID tags in the prepaid transport passes.

Asset management: Location, identification and transport trace

Nowadays, the most modern and effective organizations are using RFID technology to automate the assets tracking. Systems based on RFID solutions avoid many problems caused by manual tracking. With RFID they increase security and accuracy of the information which company has about the goods in a constant and instantly way.

So, when you’re in a hotel, the tools, machines, and other items and disposable consumables may be controlled by RFID tags.

Logistics

Tagging goods and pallets, you can instantly know what goods you have, how many they are and how much space they occupy in your warehouse or back store just when they are entered.

Can you imagine what would happen if huge food companies didn’t have a constant and instant control of the products they have in stock? When you shop at the supermarket you are not aware of how much the product has travelled, but thanks to RFID technology there is a trace of its movements.

Inventories and warehouses

The main objective to use RFID is to increase the efficiency of warehouses by reducing work and logistic costs. Likewise, to get instantly an accurate inventory of goods with all kind of details, like size, quality, country, and so on. Physical inventory counts which are expensive and inaccurate are not necessary anymore. This way you save money and time.

Identification of animals

Tagging animals with RFID is an important tool for a farmer, in order to identify each animal with its information like origin, pedigree, medical details, etc. As well as with the help of software, to keep updated the information by uploading the new information like veterinary visits.

Surgeries

RFID technology in hospitals is present in many forms, from tracking surgical tools to tracking persons –patients, visitors and staff. There are several important reasons to use RFID technology in the healthcare industry from reducing medical errors like to lost essential surgery tools or forget surgery sponges within patients, as well as reduce economic costs or increase the security at healthcare buildings.

The most common RFID applications in hospitals are inventory tracking, control access, staff and patients tracking, tracking tools, tracking disposable consumables, tracking large/expensive equipment, laundry tracking, etc.

Access control: sports facilities, buildings, tourism

The RFID access control systems work to identify whose, where and when it’s entering a building or a room. It’s useful to have information about individuals in an organization or event like a sports match or music festival, as well as to allow or deny the entry of individuals in particular places.

The same function can be fulfilled in a company to have control over the schedules of employees, to what places they access inside the company and the control of people who are visiting the company offices.

Passports

Passports with an embedded chip are called biometric passport, ePassport or digital passport. This chip has biometric information that is used to authenticate the identity of the passport holder. The information stored in RFID chips of ePassports depends on the country’s policy. Data usually stored are name, date and place of birth, sex, nationality and a digital version of the photograph. Data about the passport are in the chip too, such as the number, issue date and place, and the expiration date. The standardized biometrics used for identification system are facial recognition, fingerprint recognition or iris recognition.

The supermarket of the future

Imagine entering a store and just grab the products you want to buy and finally leave the store without whether lines nor checkout. The store stock would be updated instantly while you are taking the goods and you could check your total bill on your mobile at the same moment having a better control of your expenses.

Libraries and Museums

RFID is being applied in the museums, libraries and other related settings mostly in three ways:

Objects tracking: managing full inventories of collections is a huge and time-consuming work.
Security systems: protecting assets from theft an essential issue in museums, galleries. RFID provides security by automatically tracking the movement of objects tagged which can be located instantly.
Visitor experience: there is too much information to put in a single label on the wall. The visitor’s experience gets complete and amusing if they are directed to a virtual resource linked with a tag.

Timing of sports events

In many sports events like races the participants must be timed accurately, the best way to do this is tagging them and tracking when they pass across control points.

David Killens's picture
Fortunately for me, I live in

Fortunately for me, I live in a working democracy where the government can not force it's agenda against irate voters.

cranky47's picture
@David Killens

@David Killens

"Fortunately for me, I live in a working democracy where the government can not force it's agenda against irate voters."

Really. May I ask on which planet you reside?

Of course "we the people are often far too stupid ,ignorant or fearful to realise when they're being conned. The election of Donald J Trump is a perfect example. Other examples include the Patriot Act, TheDepartment of Homeland Security, the abolition of habeas corpus (IE due process) for certain people ,such as anyone SUSPECTED of terrorism .

As far as I'm aware, no Guantanamo Bay prisoners have actually been convicted of a crime. This from a country in which the presumption of innocence is a plank of its legal system **

It's possible, even likely, that Roe vs Wade will be overturned by the Trump administration. (that because of the US eccentricity of having Supreme Court judges political appointees.)

The UK has more surveillance cameras per capita (but mainly in London) than any other country on earth.

**can't help but think of Ben Franklin's adage " "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Cognostic's picture
Microchips = 666 like a giant

Microchips = 666 like a giant gorilla turd =s your lunch. Tell me you eat gorilla turds and I will send you some.

Cognostic's picture
RE: OP 616 OOPS!!!

RE: OP 616 OOPS!!!
Papyrus 115 (which is the oldest preserved manuscript of the Revelation as of 2017), as well as other ancient sources like Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus, give the number of the beast as χιϛ or χιc (transliterable in Arabic numerals as 616) (χιϛ), not 666;[2]

Although Irenaeus (2nd century AD) affirmed the number to be 666 and reported several scribal errors of the number, theologians have doubts about the traditional reading[12] because of the appearance of the figure 616 in the Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus (C; Paris—one of the four great uncial codices), as well as in the Latin version of Tyconius (DCXVI, ed. Souter in the Journal of Theology, SE, April 1913), and in an ancient Armenian version (ed. Conybeare, 1907). Irenaeus knew about the 616 reading, but did not adopt it (Haer. V, 30). In the 380s, correcting the existing Latin-language version of the New Testament (commonly referred to as the Vetus Latina), Jerome retained "666".[13][14]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_the_Beast

Cognostic's picture
RE: OP 616 OOPS!!!

dup

Cognostic's picture
RE: OP 616 OOPS!!!

dup

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