Beliefs Without Foundation For Christians

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Lion IRC's picture
Youre talking about all the

@Calilasseia (Mon, 03/16/2020 - 19:20)

Youre talking about all the competing theories of everything right?

David Killens's picture
@ Lion IRC

@ Lion IRC

"Youre talking about all the competing theories of everything right?"

What are you talking about? Here is Calilasseia's entire post.

"Indeed, one of the fun aspects of mythology fanboyism that should immediately lead to suspicion of the entire enterprise, is the manner in which [1] mythology fanboys across the globe cannot agree with each other which of our extant mythologies is purportedly the "right" mythology, and [2] adherents of a particular mythology cannot agree among themselves on a large scale what that mythology is purportedly telling us."

In the entire post he never used the word "theory" or "theories".

So what are you talking about? The scientific theory, or just the other application for this word, which is basically an opinion.

Or is this just a strawman?

Lion IRC's picture
What do you mean?

What do you mean?
I'm talking about mythology fanboyism too.
Parallel universes. Many worlds hypotheses. Holographic universes. Multiverse. Wormholes. Dark energy. Quantum spookiness.
https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/mobile_36130af2-01c3_8296.jpg

Nyarlathotep's picture
@Lion IRC

@Lion IRC
WTF is quantum spookiness?

Tin-Man's picture
@Nyar Re: "WTF is quantum

@Nyar Re: "WTF is quantum spookiness?"

Don't you know anything? Quantum spookiness is when a subatomic particle suddenly appears out of nowhere and scares the quark out of a neutrino.... Duh! Geez, I thought you studied this stuff.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Tin Man

@ Tin Man

Jeez mate....I didn't think it possible but your comments are getting TOO FUNNY! CC just had a fit.....and got off me WITHOUT A CLAW IN SIGHT!!

Excuse me while I dry my trouser legs....oh wait, I'm wearing shorts....Doris! DORIS, its happened again!!!! get the paper towels...

Lion IRC's picture
I wondered that too the first

@Nyarlathotep

I wondered that too the first time I encountered the term.
Sounds pretty unscientific. Am I right?

But hey, that's how science rolls these days.
"Elegant" theories trump falsifiable theories.

Whitefire13's picture
@Lion

@Lion

The more I read your posts, answers and questions the more I come to the conclusion that you do not make sense. You got one twisted pretzel for “reasoning”. This isn’t about you as a “person” (maybe, I don’t know - you) but your ideas and how you come to your conclusions are
about as “sensible” as a 5 year old defending their belief in Santa or Cinderella...

Lion IRC's picture
If my posts don't make sense

If my posts don't make sense to you that means you don't understand their content.

If I read a post with terms and language I didn't understand, obviously it wouldn't make sense to me, but on what basis could I make claims about whether or not the content of that post was reasonable? How on earth can you determine whether someone's conclusions are valid when you don't even understand the premises?

cranky47's picture
@Lion

@Lion

"If my posts don't make sense to you that means you don't understand their content."

Oh for fuck sake.

Your use of an absurd ad hominem proves White's point. (see below)

"Ad hominem (Latin for "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, typically refers to a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Nyarlathotep's picture
Lion IRC - I wondered that

Lion IRC - I wondered that too the first time I encountered the term.
Sounds pretty unscientific. Am I right?

But hey, that's how science rolls these days.
"Elegant" theories trump falsifiable theories.

I'm unfamiliar with any scientific theory called quantum spookiness. My guess was that you are just making up bullshit and posting it; but I figured I'd give you a chance to explain what you mean before I accused you of that; but I think that ship has sailed:

BULLSHIT!

Lion IRC's picture
I think the term "quantum

I think the term "quantum spookiness" is bullshit too.
There's no place for woo in empirical science.
That the Church Of Spontaneousness Of The Gaps when you start appealing to a mystery called randomness.

Nyarlathotep's picture
@Lion IRC

@Lion IRC
You referenced a scientific theory you called quantum spookiness. I'm 99% positive there is no such theory. Will you be retracting this claim, or expanding on it? If you do neither I will have to assuming you are trolling. It seems you've already convinced others you are trolling; this is your last chance to convince me otherwise.

Lion IRC's picture
um...I cant retract a claim I

um...I cant retract a claim I never made.
go back and read it again
v...e...r...y...s...l...o...w...l...y

https://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/beliefs-without-found...

Nyarlathotep's picture
troll removed

troll removed

doG's picture
ROTFLMAO...LOL. I love

ROTFLMAO...LOL. I love scandanavian folklore. LOL.

Sheldon's picture
Is that you didn't bother

Lion IRC "But hey, that's how science rolls these days.
"Elegant" theories trump falsifiable theories."

Is that you didn't bother using science to access the internet, and do it with prayer/ So you never see a doctor then? just pray to get better.

You sound more like Breezy with every post.

Why do theists use this relentless dishonest misrepresentation of science, as if invalidating the manifestly successful and objective process of science, or even casting it into doubt, in any way validates any of their superstition. Bizarre behaviour, and you can guarantee if any scientific evidence were presented to validate any part of their superstition, they'd trumpet it shamelessly.

Whitefire13's picture
All of which are ideas,

All of which are ideas, papers, hypothesis etc. None are scientific theories.
Scientists have imaginations too.

Algebe's picture
@Lion IRC: Parallel universes

@Lion IRC: Parallel universes. Many worlds hypotheses. Holographic universes. Multiverse. Wormholes. Dark energy

Those things don't become mythology until they're written down in a holy book and enforced as orthodoxy by a priesthood and inquisition.

Until then they're just hypotheses that anyone is free to challenge.

Cognostic's picture
Don't be silly donkey boy.

Don't be silly donkey boy. He is talking about all the theories but for the one you believe in. Yours is special!!!

Grinseed's picture
"Quantum spookiness".

"Quantum spookiness".

As Richard Feynman said "I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics." Evidently not even Einstein understood it.

"Quantum spookiness" was not a theory, it was an objection, coined by Einstein in regard to certain aspects of Heisenberg's Principle of Uncertainty, specifically the correlation of shared attributes between 'entangled particles' which defied the deterministic and measurable features of classical physics and worst of all, dared to suggest that information could travel faster than light. It is at the very heart of the profound differences between classical and quantum realities.

"God does not play dice with the Universe." said Einstein, who later added he used the word "God" metaphorically. So certain was he about the impossibility of this spookiness Einstein, and his pals, Podolsky and Rosen, produced the EPR Paradox in 1935, a thought experiment, to demonstrate that quantum theory was not so much wrong, but incomplete and only required the discovery of some good old classical natural laws to compensate for the spookiness.

However by the 1960's it was evident that no such natural laws existed. Bell's Theorem (Robert Bell) and the latest experimental evidence vindicated the reality of quantum mechanics and validated the existence of the spookiness, that despite its incomprehensibility led to the development of critical technologies like nuclear power, MRI machines, computers the internet and mobile phones etc.

I am too much of a dead head to pretend I understand quantum mechanics, and I have read enough to accept I can't understand it, There are enough names and terms above for anyone interested enough to research and learn just how much they can't understand. I am always happy to spread quantum ignorance. Its a bizarre subject involving the limits of human comprehension and the substance of reality. You might also like to look up Quantum Fluctuations for a truly bedazzling experience.

Lion IRC's picture
Oh noes.

Oh noes.
Grinseed is posting something that 'references' quantum spookiness.
Using quotes by non-theist physicists and everything.

WHATS HAPPENING!!!!
https://mbestebr.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/blog-post-1-whats-happening...

Grinseed's picture
@Lion IRC

@Lion IRC

What a peculiar response.
Whats going on? I'm not sure.

Do you often use words and phrases you don't understand to prop up your arguments?
It was obvious you did in that short rant of yours about 'mythology fanboys".
I've had an abiding interest in quantum physics for over forty years. I tried to clarify the 'spookiness issue' with you.
It is now apparent by your sarcastic response you have lost the plot and are reduced to trolling.
Its damn hard work to debate the existence of your god with resolute atheists. I have been there, pre internet, face to face encounters, very fucking risky, couldn't afford smart-arse responses then.

Either take a break or give it up. You are achieving nothing worthy now.

edited Aww...Nyah, you bounced Lion while I was typing up this response...I missed the lock out by a mere quantifiable four minutes...lol

Nyarlathotep's picture
Coin a phrase

He probably should have been removed a long time ago; but it is very hard to be sure, and it isn't something you want to be wrong about. But I'm guessing he wasn't getting the responses he wanted so he turned it up another notch and (perhaps accidentally) made it too obvious.

Anyway, I thought this was funny:

  1. Coin a phrase
  2. Claim it is a scientific theory
  3. Claim phrase is unscientific (whatever the hell that means)
  4. Claim you didn't do step 1-3
  5. Profit???
doG's picture
I just spent five minutes

I just spent five minutes posting a response to his pointless'ness on another thread. Then read this thread...ugh.

FishNChips007's picture
Hi everyone. Thank you for

Hi everyone. Thank you for this forum wherein we can communicate openly and respectfully. I would like to take the time to address some of the initial topics in question. Regarding the synoptic Gospels, can you point out where the timelines are off and have you studied ancient Jewish culture and both their system of discerning and recording time? The Gospels, with the exception of Luke, were all written by Jewish people.

Further, which Gospel do you surmise is not comprised of eyewitness accounts? If you are referring to Luke, Luke admits to recording the eyewitness accounts which were delivered to him in the very first sentences of his Gospel. Are you familiar with the texts you are refuting?

If eyewitness accounts are, in truth, eyewitness accounts, how then would said accounts not bear striking resemblance to each other? How then can you say one Gospel plagiarizes another?

For your next point in this topic, I would like to pose another question: When was the biography of Alexander the Great written? It was written in the first century AD by Roman Historian, Quintus Curtius Rufus. When did Alexander the Great die? He died in 323 BC. How long after the date of his death was the biography recorded then? It was recorded 423 years later. Even if your dating on The Gospel of John was correct, it would still have been written around 200 years closer to the events being recorded than the biography of Alexander the Great was. Maybe you don't believe that Alexander the Great was actually a historical figure.

Are you familiar with the methods by which historical accuracy is determined? You would do well to research this topic and test the accuracy of The Gospels. In doing so, you will find that they far surpass any other ancient historical document in all checkpoints for accuracy.

I would like to add here, that The Gospel of John has been dated somewhere between 80 and 100 AD. The earliest dating, however, places it before 70 AD. I encourage you to be faithful to your research.

Now for the next topic. Have you never heard of Flavius Josephus? Given, he was born about 30 years after the crucifixion, he still does record Jesus as a historical figure. If you do not believe Jesus is a historical figure, why then should you believe that Alexander the Great was? I encourage you to be consistent in your methods of study; analyze everything with the same measure of skepticism you use to analyze the Gospels.

Allow me to relate a story. At a bus-stop, a blind man struggled to make it up the stairs and onto the bus. Someone, moved with compassion, got up and gave his seat to the blind man. Would you consider this a good thing to do?

It was a bad thing. In fact, it was so bad, that the person who gave up his seat lost his job because of it.

You see, he was the bus driver.

That's called a paradigm shift. A little more information provides clarity and rightly, a change of mind.

I hope this information matters to you. If it doesn't, I would like to ask you why? Why, truly, do you reject the Gospels? Could it have something to do with the claims therein?

Let me ask you this: would you consider yourself a good person? I would have answered yes for myself a while ago, but, I had a paradigm shift. Like all things, let's put this to the test: If you consider yourself to be an upstanding individual, one who cares for his fellow human-being, can I ask you how many lies you have ever told? If you love and care for people, why would you ever lie to anyone even once? Have you ever taken something that wasn't yours, even if it was only a longer break at work than recorded, or a video, movie, or song you freely enjoyed without rights or purchase?
For this next one, keep in mind that before one physically commits an act, the intent existed within as a thought or desire. Before one murders, one hates, before one commits adultery, one lusts.

That is why God Almighty weighs hatred as murder and lust as adultery - and it is His standard that will matter on Judgement Day.

I am not judging you, as I have failed this test myself. We are all born with this sinful, rebellious nature, and this is why we need to be born again of a new nature.

You and I broke God's law and there will come a terrible day when He will pour out the wrath we all deserve. God, being perfect, cannot simply overlook sin and let us go free, or else He would be like an imperfect, corrupt judge who simply lets a murderer walk. But God is also rich in mercy and is not willing that any should perish.

This is why God became the perfect sinless man, Jesus Christ, and lived the perfect life, fulfilling the law, and He died on the cross to pay the penalty for our sin, for your sin. That way, justice is served, and God can legally dismiss our case and let us live forever because of the suffering death of Jesus Christ, the Messiah. Then He rose from the dead, defeating death.

God wants to show you mercy. Turn from your sin, from your own way, and entrust yourself to Jesus, knowing He paid your fine, confessing Him as Lord. The minute you do that, you will be born again, He will give you The Holy Spirit, and you will have a new heart with new desires and death will have lost its sting.

Thank you so much for your patience and for taking the time to read this. I truly hope this information will help you.

doG's picture
@DelusionNchips007

@DelusionNchips007

Ummmmm ya.

Might I suggest, you start your own thread, instead if burying your special thoughts in someone elses thread.
That would be a good start.

I know your belief well...I am not helped by anything you posted.

Whitefire13's picture
Hi fish&chips!

Hi fish&chips!

Haven’t been to church for over 20 some odd years...didn’t expect to read a sermon. Now everyone sing, and we’ll end with a prayer.

doG's picture
LOL.

LOL.

Nyarlathotep's picture
@Whitefire13

@Whitefire13
Don't forget to pass the collection plate. Apparently, god isn't good with money.

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