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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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“Oh LOL...lets just brush the destruction of all the competing sects and texts prior to the 5th century. Let's forget about Marcion, the Ebionites, the Thomasinian Church, the Syriac bible, The Copts. The gnostic tradition”
Yes, let’s. They were all veering off from Christ’s established Church. They also all have been left in the dust, except when the same heresies they fell prey to are reintroduced and disguised with a new name to appeal to a new generation. There is seldom anything new under the sun.
“Seriously Joy, are you on medication or just utterly ignorant of the early church history?”
Right back at ya! You misunderstand, misinterpret, and misrepresent. You are seeing things through your biased atheist lens.
“You do know that there is not one skerrick of contemporary evidence for your jesus as described in the gospels? Nothing?”
Not sure what you mean by this. There isn’t a serious historian who does not believe there is historical record of the man Jesus Christ.
*laughs in Richard Carrier*
@ Joy
"There isn’t a serious historian who does not believe there is historical record of the man Jesus Christ."
Agreed, almost no one disagrees that there was some itinerant dude whom we now label as "Jesus". But the big question is .. was he the miracle worker as depicted in the bible?
Historical record? No. The sole mention of this dude comes from the bible, and no other source. Thus it falls within a folk tale at best, but not historical.
Not quite correct. You said yourself that the historical record shows a " itinerant dude whom we now label as "Jesus"." That is the sole non-Biblical source for his existence.
@ Mrs. Paul Owczarek
"Not quite correct. You said yourself that the historical record shows a " itinerant dude whom we now label as "Jesus"." That is the sole non-Biblical source for his existence."
I made pains to ensure that this jesus due was not identified as being on the historical record, so please, Mrs. Paul Owczarek, DO NOT misrepresent my statement. I stated ....
"Historical record? No. The sole mention of this dude comes from the bible, and no other source. Thus it falls within a folk tale at best, but not historical."
Because the sole information on this jesus dude comes from the bible, and that is not a historical document.
@ MPO
No, there is no non biblical contemporary source for any jesus figure as described in the gospels or any human jesus figure. None.
Cite your source.
The source is the Roman historian, Justinian, I think. He was at least a generation after Jesus, but at least documents that a man was killed and his followers are still around. That is the sum total of the life of Jesus outside the Bible that I am aware of.
The Jewish historian was a lot more interested in John the Baptist and wrote a few paragraphs about him.
@ MPo
You are thinking Josephus.
Its a fake.Read more and you will see where I have debunked it.
Yeah, the only argument about Josephus is how much of his paragraph is a forgery. My opinion based on the arguments is the whole thing
All of the first entry describing the jesus figure is a 3rd century interpolation. Even the Church admitted that and no longer uses it in its apologetics.
The second entry referring to Jesus has now been generally accepted as referring to James the brother "in" jesus" and refers to the Jesus who was head of the Temple. No reference to the christ figure at all.
There isn’t a serious historian who does not believe there is historical record of the man Jesus Christ."
Agreed, almost no one disagrees that there was some itinerant dude whom we now label as "Jesus". But the big question is .. was he the miracle worker as depicted in the bible?
“Historical record? No. The sole mention of this dude comes from the bible, and no other source. Thus it falls within a folk tale at best, but not historical.”
Except that the names and dates mentioned in the Bible do add up. The places and people do line up with the time frame described and there are historical records separate from the Bible describing similar events.
@ Joy
"Except that the names and dates mentioned in the Bible do add up. The places and people do line up with the time frame described and there are historical records separate from the Bible describing similar events."
Based on your logic, then a Harry Potter book or a Spiderman comic is equally valid.
That is intellectually dishonest of you. The records I am referring to are often from census taking at the time of real people and does not involve an admitted piece of fiction. But sure atheists should continue their tired argument that believing in Jesus Christ is like believing in Superman or Santa Claus. This is a funny video to help point out the absurdity in your argument: https://youtu.be/5p9CY976_kw
@ Joy
I am not being dishonest, I am pointing out the failed logic you presented.
By now you should have understood that for many atheists, this "bible" is exactly that, a book of fiction.
Children grow up and mature, and they also develop critical thinking skills (although it is minimal for too many). That is why children eventually realize Santa Clause is not real, the Easter Bunny is not real, and if you take the critical thinking to the next level, this jesus story is just as fictional as Sana Clause.
“I am not being dishonest, I am pointing out the failed logic you presented.”
Seriously? You think believing in Santa Claus is equivalent to believing in Jesus Christ. You see no difference?
“Children grow up and mature, and they also develop critical thinking skills (although it is minimal for too many). That is why children eventually realize Santa Clause is not real”
Children eventually believe that Santa is not real because they have no legitimate reason to believe that he is. Why would the same child not be able to use the same critical thinking skills he used to know Santa is not real to know Jesus is not real? There seems to be a gap in your logic were the two individuals equivalent.
But yeah, I’m sure you’re just smarter than half the world. Or as you say, you must simply have better critical thinking skills than the rest of us. Or, I know you just think half the world is delusional – must be difficult to discount so many of your fellow men.
Joy: "Do you really think that is what I’m saying. Think about it. Take your time.
Why do atheists always regurgitate the same tired talking points. Is it in your handbook?"
“Please. You just responded to a post with nothing but an ad hominem attack, with zero rebuttal on the content.”
Because I had already responded to your empty ad hominem attack that had no serious content thinking it sufficient to say belief in Santa equivalent to belief in Jesus. That’s not an argument. It is an attempt to not have a serious discussion. It’s intellectually dishonest and is intended to simply accuse the other person of lacking intelligence.
@ Joy
"Why would the same child not be able to use the same critical thinking skills he used to know Santa is not real to know Jesus is not real?"
Exactly. For the same reason a child begins to understand that some dude going down a chimney, or flying through the air pulled by reindeer is ridiculous but exactly similar to believing some dude walked on water and turned water into wine.
“and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field” Genesis 2:18-20
Although there are 8.7 million species.
The entire bible is either a multiple choice book or just absurdities.
@Everlasting Joy
HEY THERE!... *waving like a maniac*... Was getting worried you had left us. Such a relief to see you only decided to camp out in another thread after having your ass served to you on a silver platter in the other thread. Sadly, though, from what little I have read in this thread so far, it would seem you are not faring much better here.... *mournful sigh*... Fret not, however. Just maintain hold of your faith in that your god might give you some partial credit for at least TRYING to defend him and explain to those of us "not in the know" what your god really means and wants. For what it is worth, I think your god is pretty damn lucky to have somebody like you lobbying for his omnipotent and omniscient self. Sure, your insufferable people skills and your judgemental busy-body attitude leave much to be desired. And so what if most of your statements are cringe-worthy to the point of causing folks to turn away from your dogma? The important thing is that you more than make up for that with your absolutely dogged attitude and your naively blind and absolute faith. So, chin up, little warrior. Heaven may still be within your grasp.
Joylovessex,
You said
"Seriously? You think believing in Santa Claus is equivalent to believing in Jesus Christ. You see no difference?"
Damn you go girl, I was going to post exactly the same thing.
I can't believe that these atheists are stupid enough to use that old false equivocation. Santa Clause and Jesus beliefs being similar - Phooey on that I say and I commend you for pointing it out.
They are in no way similar.
For example a belief in Santa has some evidence. I've seen him at the mall, and when I was a kid, I'll be damned, but there actually were presents under the tree on Christmas morning. We also left cookies out for him and God Almighty, the cookies were eaten in the morning. Not proof of Santa, but some damn fine evidence.
There is also far less harm caused by a belief in Santa. Now, I'll admit, a belief in Santa could cause some harm. I particularly remember a fifth grade friend of mine being moderately mocked when he had not yet lost his faith.
I don't, however, remember anyone being burned at the stake or being bombed at his place of work because he didn't believe in the correct version of Old St. Nick. I'm pretty sure there have not been any crusades or schisms within the Santa movement.
Now, to be fair, I will admit that all those letters kids sent to Santa probably ended up in landfills and have contributed to our pollution problems, but you'll have to weigh that against the murders, rapes, not beating your slaves to death and genocides in the Jesus religions.
So, in summary, kudos again for pointing out that beliefs in Santa and Jesus are not equivocal. Stupid atheists!!!!
@NewSkeptic Re: Santa vs. Jesus
Oh, well ain't that just lovely, you backstabbing turncoat? I suppose you will next be telling all us "stupid atheists" how believing in Jesus and believing in the Easter Bunny are not the same... *rolling eyes*... Sheesh!
@TinToy,
"I suppose you will next be telling all us "stupid atheists" how believing in Jesus and believing in the Easter Bunny are not the same
I would never say that. The Easter Bunny is EVIL with all capitals, I tell you, EVIL.
That little monster brought me baskets full of seemingly delicious chocolates and other sugary treats for years and years. Now, you guessed it, type 2 diabetes and neuropathy. That little fucker nearly caused my extinction and from now on, I'm setting traps for that carrot muncher and I'm gonna stomp his little ass.
Sorry about that rant, but I really hate that little fucker.
@NewSkeptic Re: "I would never say that. The Easter Bunny is EVIL with all capitals, I tell you, EVIL."
....*sigh of relief*... Phew! So good to hear you say that. I was starting to worry about you. By the way, if you do happen to catch the little bastard, mind if I call dibs on one of his feet? I've been needing a new keychain ornament since I lost my lucky horseshoe last week.
Hey, speaking of traps, you got any ideas about how to catch the Tooth Fairy? That bitch owes me money.
@Tin,
"By the way, if you do happen to catch the little bastard, mind if I call dibs on one of his feet? "
I had the little bastard all lined up last year, then he blinded me in a haze of pastel colors. I'm ready with special glasses this year. I'll be happy to saw, err, i mean, save a foot for you.
I got in trouble once for using the term Fairy inappropriately. I'd rather put those long ago days behind me, so unfortunately, I'm gonna have to pass on helping out with the Toothy one, who by the way still owes me for the four teeth removed when I got braces as a teenager.
@NewSkeptic
Hmm how old are you now? 58?
So 45 years, plus inflation, plus there was that one time your checking account ran 3 dollars under? 30 dollar overdraft fee that these funds would of covered... plus emotional damages, were you one of the lucky ones that got dollars instead of change? 2 dollars per tooth? I am jealous! 2 dollars times 4, + 30 dollar overdraft fee, + emotional damage + 45 years of inflation and lost opportunity on interest.
Hey that toothy one owes you over 5 grand. Enough that it is probably worth putting a bounty out on it?
I personally think bunnies are way too cute to arrest and haul off to debtors prison, but I bet you can find someone that will do that. Considering how much money this bunny must have to cover billions of children, 5 grand should be pocket change to the guy, well if anyone can catch this toothy hopper.
@Log
I like your math, you are just missing that the damn bank actually ran through the same overdraft TWICE. Mfers.
In the end, my bark is probably worse than my bite, and I probably won't physically harm the bastard, but I am going to give him a piece of my mind, maybe even let my dog have a little fun with him (I assume EB is a him) before I call her off.
Anyway, the EB seems to be trying to make up for the past since my basket, at least last year, was filled with sugar-free goodies.
@ Joy
Now you are plain making things up! CITE YOUR SOURCES FOR: The records I am referring to are often from census taking at the time of real people and does not involve an admitted piece of fiction
The gospels contradict each other, offer different time frames and are not intended to be compared. Each of the synoptics was written as "the" gospel for its audience.
John came along later, in a different style, more contradictions and in places a different story.
There is no contemporary evidence for a Jesus figure as described in the gospels ( or any of the disciples) None. That is History.
The gospels (written some 40 to 80 years after the alleged events) are NOT eye witness accounts by their own admission. They are often inaccurate and are not a reliable source of information.
Sorry but you're getting funnier by the post. How does throwing some accurate claims into the bible validate it's woo woo claims exactly? The Harry Potter books probably have something accurate in them, do you really believe this validates wizardry, or is this another of those awful double standards present in the bias of religious belief?
“Sorry but you're getting funnier by the post. How does throwing some accurate claims into the bible validate it's woo woo claims exactly? The Harry Potter books probably have something accurate in them, do you really believe this validates wizardry,”
Do you really think that is what I’m saying. Think about it. Take your time.
Why do atheists always regurgitate the same tired talking points. Is it in your handbook?
@ Joy
"Do you really think that is what I’m saying. Think about it. Take your time.
Why do atheists always regurgitate the same tired talking points. Is it in your handbook?"
Please. You just responded to a post with nothing but an ad hominem attack, with zero rebuttal on the content.
There is an atheist handbook??
What???
COG!!
DID you STEAL my handbook???
Why was I not told about a handbook?? I end up hearing about it from Jo??
Oh wait, nevermind, sorry I accused you cog, Jo is just being jo again.
@ Joy
there are historical records separate from the Bible describing similar events.
You are lying again.
Citations please.
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