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It doesn't matter, when a non-theoretical assertion is made for the existence of anything, it can always be disproved whether in theory or in practice.
OK, prove I ate cornflakes for breakfast. Make up any tests and their results that you need. Good luck.
You do realize food doesn't just disappear when you eat it, right?
Finding food in my stomach is not proof I ate it. It could have gotten there an infinite number of other ways.
I have no issues with that. The question just came off as if food left no trace once it was eaten.
John 61X Breezy,
I think you have it reversed. It is impossible to show that a claim about the world of atoms and energy (non-theoretical) is false if 100% certainty is required. Asking someone to disprove God with 100% certainty would be an example.
Suppose I claimed that Zeus, who has a physical presence though imbued with magical powers, exists. Where is the disproof? We could look on top of Mt. Olympus and not see any gods, but that doesn't prove that Zeus doesn't exist. Maybe the gods have taken up a new abode in this age of prying satellites.
Or, I could claim that a tea cup is orbiting the sun somewhere between Jupiter and Saturn. You send your fleet of space ships out and search everywhere but find nothing. How do you know (with 100% certainty) that you didn't miss it? In a physical reality, with physical, fallible humans and machines, how do you conduct a perfect search over vast volumes and know that it was perfect? Maybe some phenomena that you have never considered interfered with your search. Maybe someone got tired and blinked at the crucial moment. Maybe a circuit failed at the crucial moment, a temporary glitch.
You could opt for perfect people, perfect machines, a perfect search pattern, and a perfect knowledge of possible anomalies that might interfere, and finally prove that the tea cup doesn't exist. But what if you found that tea cup? What becomes of your claim that you could disprove its existence? Maybe you meant to say that a false claim could be disproved with certainty. But then you have the above counter-examples. You have to cover an infinite number of possible (logical) explanations.
All you're doing is making it more difficult to find, without making it impossible. If I look in my pocket and don't see my keys, its ridiculous to suggest I can never be certain they're not there due to some <1% chance I missed it. Likewise with the teacup, once I've looked in every location between Jupiter and Saturn, then by definition I can be certain its not there. If there's a risk I could miss it, then its simply a matter of eliminating that risk somehow. Saying things like I blinked at the wrong moment, doesn't change anything, there will always be a solution or a way to compensate for it.
Each variable you throw at me, only increases the difficulty, not the impossibility. The only way to make it impossible to find, is if by definition you say the teacup is impossible to find.
"It doesn't matter, when a non-theoretical assertion is made for the existence of anything, it can always be disproved whether in theory or in practice."
So you can disprove the non-theoretical invisible elephants then?
Duh, does invisible mean inaudible and intangible? State the ways in which your creature exists and it can be proven to not exist if it doesn't
John 61X Breezy,
Okay, you look in your pocket and don't see an elephant. Aren't you assuming that elephants are big? You can certainly make a good case for big elephants, but how do you squeeze out the logical possibility that there might be tiny elephants? Perhaps the usual rules of nature don't apply to them. So, you look into your pocket and conclude, erroneously, that there are no elephants in there. We would call that a scientifically sound conclusion, but it can never be certain since there are an infinite number of outrageous but logical explanations to rule out. Of course, you could define an "elephant" as a creature that cannot fit into your pocket and then draw the logical conclusion with certainty, but this is an exercise in logic--and has no connection with reality.
The moment you treat the elephant as a theoretical concept you've distanced it from reality. In contrast, the when you give it an actual property, it becomes verifiable. If the elephant is tiny, then our observations must be adjusted accordingly. It doesn't matter what outrageous property you give it, if it's possible for it to have it, then it's possible to see if it doesn't.
The problem is you can see anything you want, or verify anything you want; and none of that will get you any closer to proving anything. Proof is not something for the empirical world. It is a hopeless task.
It all depends on how you're defining proof, because I would say the opposite: Proof is definitely something for the empirical world, and not for the statistical world.
You are making the common mistake of confusing proof and evidence. They are not related. No amount of evidence can prove anything.
That's not a mistake, as I said, it depends on your definition. If a store wants proof of purchase, I can just show them my receipt. Scroll through the forum and see how many times your fellows have asked for proof of God's existence; or Sheldon's repetitive Burden of Proof rants. Those are not a mistake, that's how the word is used in that context.
If you're going to limit the word proof to logic and mathematics, then here is proof of God's existence:
-If you're reading this then God exists.
-You're reading this.
-Therefore God exists.
" Scroll through the forum and see how many times your fellows have asked for proof of God's existence; or Sheldon's repetitive Burden of Proof rants. "
So you don't know what burden of proof means, that explains a lot.
If you're reading this then god doesn't exist.
You're reading this.
Therefore god doesn't exist.
Yes very compelling, you're a clown, and a very poor troll I must say.
Well you did start this nested section with a response to Kataclismic post about mathematical proof.
I'm not sure how that affects my comment.
Who said the invisible elephants are theoretical?
Right, guys?
It struck me as special pleading. What evidence has he that his deity is anything more than theoretical? I've not seen anyone demonstrate anything to support this view beyond the fact they they believe it to be the case.
It's an invisible elephant, and it won't be tested.
John 6IX Breezy,
"What infinite number of cases? Just look in his pocket and you'll know if there's an elephant or not."
Real elephants leave a ton of evidence to prove their existence. Gods are incapable of proving their existence because they are imaginary.
Why do you believe in imaginary characters?
I can PROVE that 2+2=4 because when I have two and I put it with another two, I have four. I can assert that there's a teacup in orbit around the sun and everytime you tell me there isn't I can just say you aren't looking hard enough.
Do you understand the difference, John?
The elephant in my pocket is very small. You may need a microscope.
Then get a microscope.
@Breezy
You're just being an ass and you know it!
@Kat
Your elephant may be small, but mine is also invisible. Pesky little bastard to find sometimes when I feed him.
Well see, they didn't say it was invisible, just really, really small. But you may be on to something as I just assumed my microscope wasn't powerful enough.
Can you disprove that I am god?
John! How ya doin'? Good to see ya.
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