My name is Joshua Waitman. I am student at a Classical Christian school, where I am taking an apologetics for the Christian faith class. I believe it is important to be exposed to different ideas, especially ones like atheism. You may have seen my other classmate on the forum as well. One of my projects is to interview an atheist through an online forum for discussion such as this. I'd appreciate it if someone would be willing to discuss their worldview with me! If you see this as an opportunity to make me an atheist that's not what it is. I'm a Calvinist Christian and I stand by the Apostles creed. I'm not trying to troll or start arguments, just learn more about atheism. Let's chat! :)
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Josh, you may want to start by reading some of the past strings in this forum.
Thanks for the tip! I'll check them out.
This has been done before. Two times at least. The school seems to be teaching the students presuppositionalism and an argument from personal experience. The students are not actually having a conversation but simply asserting apriori assumptions and then defending them with circular arguments. "I believe what I want to believe, I don't need facts. Look at the dictionary definition. It says nothing about facts or evidence. Anything can be accepted as true and be believed. My religion is perfectly okay with that."
Before we begin - What justification do you have for the existence of your god? With 30,000 Christian sects all worshiping different Christian Gods, what makes your god the correct one?
as said before, we rnt really here to argue.
isobel: As I have said before , this is a debate forum. Thus the name Debate Room!
Hello Joshthestudent
First start with definitions.
Atheist: Theist with an "a" in front of it. The A stands for the inverse of, or "not". Theist, roughly stands for "believer in god."
Dictonary.com for Theism:
the belief in one God as the creator and ruler of the universe, without rejection of revelation (distinguished from deism ).
2.
belief in the existence of a god or gods (opposed to atheism).
What an atheist is NOT:
A belief system. We do not "believe there is no god." We simply do not believe in god(s). Small subtle distinction, but important. Other than this site, and a few other rare gatherings, (usually not associated with atheist republic,) we do not gather, discuss and form up, there is no prayer, we do not organize, do charity events etc. Think of it as, we are NOT stamp collectors. As opposed to being stamp collectors.
joshthestudent
you're one of the student of mr. wilson right?
do you really have to start another same post like isobel started?
and i bet your questions will be the same as your teacher and your classmate right?
this is redundant for the ppl here in AR..to answer the same question again and again.
were actually getting fed up with the kind of post like yours, saying they don't want any arguments or what so ever..
that they are just having this for our project...but since you've started it, have it your way then...
its a free country anyway...
That's correct, I am one of Wilson's students. I apologize if this thread bothers you but I will have different questions than Isobel and Wilson. Please don't feel obligated to read or post on this thread if it annoys you. If you are interested in talking about your worldview though I'd love to have some discussion!
will there any be more like you posting the same topic?
or its just you, isobel and wilson?
It's just the three of us.
joshthestudent,
A discussion is a two-way street isn't it? I understand that you may not wish to get into a protracted argument, but to cut out all debate whatsoever as isobel seems to be doing is neither a discussion nor much of a learning experience.
Learning how to ride a bike is a hands-on experience. You don't just get it from a manual. Learning about atheists is also a hands-on activity that involves give-and-take discussions. Simply asking questions is better than hiding in a bubble, as some Christians do, but it will not give you the fullest understanding of atheism. You will always be seeing our answers through the filter of your own doctrines, a limitation that cannot be checked via a one-way question asking approach.
Welcome Josh. We atheists have just one thing in common, a lack of belief in a god. That is the sole thing in common I have with every other atheist member of this forum. Each of us arrived here based on our own personal journeys. But we do not share a common world view.
And to be honest I have no idea where the lie that atheists have a common world view came from. So Josh, I request you re-align your opinions on atheists and if you want to learn about us, DO NOT listen to those who are not atheists.
But whoever told you that we have a common world view lied to your face.
On your OP you gave the impression that your mind is closed, that you will not ponder the interchange of opinions and facts presented in this forum.
Why?
Are those who control you concerned that if you are exposed to different opinions they may lose their control over you?
I didn't mean to say that atheists have a common worldview, I apologize if that's how it came off. My mind is not closed off to atheism because someone is in control of me. I have come to a belief in God because that's what I realize to be true. I am open to being exposed to all sorts of opinions and beliefs. Would you be willing to answer some questions about your personal worldview for me? I'm genuinely interested in learning more.
Sure ....
But under the condition that my view does not apply to any other atheists.
I can agree to that condition for sure! Would you prefer to do it on this thread or another means? I can do any.
@Josh
You are late, young man. We have been waiting almost two days for you. You must now go sit in the corner for an undetermined amount of time while wearing "The Tardy Hat of Shame." While there, if you can conjure up a few questions different from those of Miss Isobel, then I may be inclined to assist you with your project. Meanwhile, you might want to consider donning a bit of protective gear (helmet, elbow/knee pads, butt pads) while playing around out here in the open forum. Just a suggestion. *grin*
@David: " I have no idea where the lie that atheists have a common world view came from. "
Christians operate in a world of belief and can not imagine a world without it. Even the new Christians that give up the faith and "convert" to atheism, actually view it as a conversion of beliefs and not just giving up on the Christian myth. Just sharing. A world without belief is unimaginable to Christians.
And I call BS on that. Most Christians were exposed and heavily indoctrinated from birth. And what drives most Christians is the fear of hell.
But exactly who informed you that atheists have a world view? And please don't play dumb. All three of you came here with a prepared script. Hi, I'm a Christian and don't want to argue, just find out about atheism. And the second I may be in hot water, apologize like a RC priest caught with his dick in an alter boy.
All three of you came prepared as far as conduct, but all three of you display the same lack of knowledge and refusal to engage in a healthy debate.
So, in your preparation, who informed you that atheists had a world view? All three of you sing the same tune, I want to know who is orchestrating this.
And once again you have offended me, implying that becoming an atheist is a conversion of beliefs.
Hello josh
@Josh:I have come to a belied in God because that's what I realize to be true.
Everyone notice that this is his basic assertion. "I believe because I believe." "It's true." He is shifting the burden if you assert it is not true.
Now watch the 'run around."
Josh! You asserted that your God is true. You fount it to be true. Prove it. What evidence convinced you.
Here goes the circularity again....
The best proof I could give you is the Bible. No matter how much proof I give for God's existence it would merely be denied. You believe there is no god, I believe in the one true God. No matter what I say here on this forum, although I wish it weren't so, you won't believe in God or any of the proof I provide. There's really no point in me trying to prove God to you. It's like trying to prove a blind man that the sky is blue.
"There's really no point in me trying to prove God to you."
then we don't have to talk about anything...
you know what i know about you believing in your gawd?
is that you don't wanna be shunned by your parents. relatives, community. and avoid being rejected by theist friends...
am i right?you just believe cause your parents told you. you just inherit your religion from your parents.
that's what i figured out when i talked to my theist friends, they told me that they just believe because their parents told them so.
or other reason is, the delusion of hell...
Projection much?
Ah yes, the boilerplate veiled accusation that atheists are dishonest.
@joshthestudent
Yikes, if the best proof you can give is the bible, you are battling the debate about god with a major handicap and from a position of major weakness.
@josh
"The best proof I could give you is the Bible."
isn't it ironic?
we've read the bible, and that the bible that prove god exist is the reason why most of us here an atheist, don't even think that atheist haven't read the bible...
perhaps you're reading it the wrong way, its not hogwarts you know.
joshthestudent,
Aren't you being offensive when you say that we would just "deny" your arguments as though it were a superficial reaction entailing no serious thought? Some of us have studied a great deal and just maybe we have some excellent reasons for rejecting your arguments! Have you considered that?
Aren't you also being offensive when you say that we are incapable, or too hard-headed, maybe too proud, to recognize your good arguments? Just maybe your arguments aren't that good and that's the reason why we reject them!
Who has the most at stake here? If a real proof for God appeared tomorrow we would surely be embarrassed, but being rational people we would soon switch sides. After all, heaven might be kind of nice if God is not the petty tyrant of the Bible. You, on the other hand, would have to give up any hope of heaven and eternal life. Your whole world would be shattered! You would be totally lost! Therefore, it seems reasonable to expect that the great bulk of wishful denial will be found in your camp. Just a thought. If lots of smart people don't buy your arguments, then you should at least explore the possibility that you might be wrong.
@Green Re: "If lots of smart people don't buy your arguments, then you should at least explore the possibility that you might be wrong."
Along with everything else you said. *standing on top of table clapping like a maniac*
@ Josh
"The best proof I could give you is the Bible"
Which one Josh? The Catholic Bible with apocrypha? The Sryian bible without Paul and with the unified synoptics? The Nasrani bible before 1698 with the Acts of Thomas and the Gospel of Thomas? The Coptic Bible? The Greek Orthodox Bible? The protestant KJV without apocrypha but with adenda? Which bible do you consider the inspiration of your god/ proof of his/her existence?
good luck josh. its a rowdy bunch lol
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