Do you think Jesus existed?

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dtommy79's picture
Do you think Jesus existed?

As the title says, do you think Jesus really existed?

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Tman127182's picture
If you're taking about the

If you're taking about the historical Jesus, then maybe, because there is not much to go on just mostly guesswork, but you're talking about divine Jesus then most likely no.

dtommy79's picture
Most expert say he did

Most expert say he did existed. But if he was only a simple poor guy, how could he become a symbol for so many people?

Samson's picture
''But if he was only a simple

''But if he was only a simple poor guy, how could he become a symbol for so many people?''
Would you re-think again,for a second-the logic of this question? And maybe refraze it-if possible? Or do you really think this is a valid-meanigful question?

Zarathustra's picture
You're making quite a leap

You're making quite a leap there, Dtommy. 'Most experts' is a weasel-word, because as far as I'm aware, the main source of information outside of the Bible for the Nazarene comes from Flavius Josephus, who is the main quoted historic writer about Christ. But he was born in 33 CE, after Christ's death assuming he died at 33 (when he is believed to have been born around 6 BCE, putting his death around 27 CE).

So Flavius was basing his writings on...well, no actual experience with the man himself. Further, your second question may be innocent, but it sounds like begging the question, because your question is loaded so as to then conclude that he must have been special because he is a symbol for many people. Is it not possible that he made a good symbol for the Catholic Church (a quite frankly un-Christian and un-Christ-like organisation) because his story is so damned good? Why does the fact that now, with so little to go by other than a book that tells of his miracles, that he could only have been as written? I apologise if I come off harsh at all, I mean purely from an argumentative point.

Zaphod's picture
Sorry Zarathustra (love the

Zarathustra (love the name by the way), It would be safe to say most historians believe Jesus the man existed the most historical proof comes from his recorded baptism with John the Baptist his disciples most of whom were initially John the Baptist disciples before they were Jesus disciples, his 12 Apostles and the recorded deaths of each all of whom died because of the refusal to denounce Jesus with the exception one who hung himself for betraying Jesus and The recorded sentencing of Jesus under Pontius Pilate to his death crucifixion and burial under the Roman empire being the most undeniable historical proof of his existence. Most, perhaps historians would have been a better word for Dtommy to use, believe Jesus existed regardless as to whether they are christian or non-christian.

Now as to whether he was the son of God or not or as some call divine that is another question. I surely don't believe in the Trinity which states that Jesus God and the Holy Spirit are one and the same. I don't even think Jesus thought that or that he was the only child of God. In fact, I don't think Jesus thought he was the son of God any more than you or I. Few times in the scripture, depending on the version you are reading 30-40 times did he say "my father" in reference to God, but it is important to read the context in which it was being said. Jesus referred to God as "Father" once being when talking to God in private in the garden before he was to be crucified, he referred to the temple as "my house" twice when he was angry with people at the temple and casting them out for their financial dealings there, and once when telling Peter after Peter said he was the son of God which could be left up to interpretation because he said something to the effect of my Father, after this it is important to note he ordered his apostles not to call him Christ. I think these events are the closest he gets to implying God was his father and his father alone. I think it is important to consider what he had to say about the self proclaimed children of Abraham to get an Idea of exactly what he meant by "Father" when he was saying it.

I believe Jesus was a an extremely smart, good and influential person who unfortunately religions have used over time to create someone entirely different out of for purposes of control, wealth and power. I do not believe Jesus would have ever condoned many of the atrocities that have been performed under his name. I however agree completely with your sentiment toward the Catholic Church. I also feel there are other many other Christian religions that are frankly un-Christian like. I think the Catholic (the word catholic meaning universal and for all) church was as first set up in a good way by Simon Peter aka the Rock aka Peter not Simon, but just like Jesus the Idea was taken and turned into something entirely different. I forget what Pope it was, but there was a Pope who wanted to make the Roman Catholic Church into a church that more reflected what Simon had originally intended but unfortunately was poisoned.

Another important side note: It was not until the 20th century that the Roman Catholic Church even allowed its parishioners to read the Holy Bible as they call it.

Samson's picture
I rely on Bart Ehrman

I rely on Bart Ehrman,authority on a subject, who sais there's no serious scholar who doubts that a person with that name existed.

Otherwise, I think that the proof it self does not exist, but since stories & myths are easily attached to a real person & with time legends grow...I think most likely / probably a charismatic leader/Jesus realy existed. Which is not realy an issue.In fact it's irrelevant.

VinnieIlDuce's picture
From my understanding of

From my understanding of history of biblical times, excluding religious books, Jesus as a man did probably exist. To me, I think he was just a man who preached to mobs of people. As to the the "Divine Jesus", to quote TMAN127182, no. That would require your belief in 'God' and his supernatural powers. (I used 'God' to state the Christians god since they claim there is one god who has no name other than 'God') Jesus, to me, was nothing other than a profit for a poor excuse of a religion. There is no credible source for any of his miracles and seeing as though his stories often include drunk people or wine, how can the Bible be credible? I digress. This response has been very bias due to my past with the Christian religion.

Tman127182's picture
During the time where Jesus

During the time where Jesus supposedly existed, there have been a lot of preachers roaming around. If Jesus actually existed, he may have done something different that attracted more followers than usual, so much so, the followers deified Jesus into the "savior" as we know now. Monty Python's Life of Brian already had a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about.

samking009's picture
Jesus existed. I believe it

Jesus existed. I believe it through the power of convinction. Don't ask me how as its personal. But try to ask your spirit, am I really living? If yes, then ask if Jesus Existed. :-)

Tman127182's picture
what spirit? If personal

what spirit? If personal experience is the only evidence you rely on for the existence of Jesus, then ultimately you have nothing.

Trevor's picture
Most likely he existed, but

Most likely he existed, but he was just a regular human being that got carried away and perhaps suffered a mental illness. This always reminds me of the fact that if you need jesus to be good, then you are not a very good human being to begin with.

VinnieIlDuce's picture
A quote from Albert Einstein

A quote from Albert Einstein should suffice. "If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." ~Albert Einstein

Rob's picture
Jesus was indeed in all

Jesus was indeed in all probability very much real. But he might not even have claimed all the things that people condemned him for. He might have been victim of a good old witch hunt type of situation.

mysticrose's picture
I believe he existed. The

I believe he existed. The existence of different religions in the world rooted from the fact that Jesus Christ once been here in this world. The gospel and disciples can prove his existence but some people want more evidence about him, For me it's enough how religions tried controlling the world using his name to believe that he lived in this world around 2000 years ago.

Tman127182's picture
What other religions claimed

What other religions claimed that Jesus Christ existed? Gospel and eyewitness accounts do not count because they are not as accurate as many people would think.

SammyShazaam's picture
I definitely think he existed

I definitely think he existed... though there's that loophole where Mary'd water broke on the way to the census (that's why they were travelling) so Jesus's birth was never officially recorded in Roman record - his family members were, including his siblings. His trial and sentencing was, though. He's not referred to as Jesus Christ, but Jesus of Nazareth, as is his roman name.

Of course, none of this proves or even implies that he was Christ, meaning the son of God.

Austin's picture
The fact that you are

The fact that you are discussing whether he existed shows how stupid the whole thing is. Imagine the god of the universe 'sending' himself down to earth to save the world, doing nothing for 30 years and then only talking to possibly a few hundred people of a desert tribe. What was the point? Christians need to be educated on how crazy this story is.

SammyShazaam's picture
While I am certainly not

While I am certainly not defending the idea of Christ, many very influential people would have the same "pointless" story to tell. For example, Siddhartha, who became known as the Buddha, also lived a rather pointless life until he began his trek across the desert to find enlightenment. Just think, in another millenia, people will be gathered around wondering what the "point" was for Ghandi, Mandela, and all the highly revered heroes of our time.

Hopefully none of them will have dogmatic religions killing in their name...

Didou's picture
I've recently seen a

I've recently seen a documentary on television about it and it seems to be that he actually existed.

mysticrose's picture
He has no remains to proof

He has no remains to proof his existence and so Mary, his mother. That's because according to the Bible he lived forevermore and Mary was carried by angels to heaven. But, the disciples died just like ordinary people so their lives is a clear proof that Jesus existed. The influence of Jesus to the history and religion is something that can only be done by a real person who really existed.

SammyShazaam's picture
Oh really? Then I will argue

Oh really? Then I will argue that Odin and Zeus exist as well. Their historical influence is just as great if not greater, considering the entire span of human history.

Of course, I'm not saying that these other gods did not exist. But if that's your argument, then they might as well have.

James's picture
there is no evidence of his

there is no evidence of his existence, but if he did exist he probably was an illuminist human being for his time

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